some general notes I've gathered (may need to be corrected for accuracy)

neutral:

• mild success with 2S in deterring irritating footsie game
• also mild success with 2H vs. footsies. i've been trying to score some CHs this way but it hasn't totally worked out yet
• fafnir at max range only, otherwise i risk getting stuffed by 5S
• fafnir vs. horsie produces weird results, depending on how soon/late horsie is. the sooner fafnir hits, the better.
• RI1 trades with horsie, but any trade with robo is a losing proposition :[
• 5S, 6P, and hot 6H stuff BRP (spacing contingent?)

robo's oki:

• lots of bazooka. sometimes i can reversal GB out of it, but even that can be baited into throw. reversal TR seems to be most persuasive though
• 5P. still not sure how to deal with this. natural reaction is to SV which gets stuffed bad. seem like reversal GB or TR are still best options?
• blocking bazooka: risk 50/50 into dust or KD. if i'm not feeling quick, i'll just block high and take the knockdown since robo's dust is so dangerous

pressuring robo (aka "the part where i fall apart"):

• running in just doesn't work here because robo will zone me with 5S or horsie and i will cry
• jump-in j.H works great until robo sees through it and does DP+super. sometimes i bait it, sometimes i don't. the risk makes me not wanna try at all!
• 2H. sometimes i bait it, sometimes i don't (when i IAD). what's the MO for punishing this?
• pressure strings can be interrupted with 5H or DP+super(!) after CC and running back in. what pressure string should i be using for robo (and perhaps everyone else?)
• 6H when heated :[

the flow of this fight for me is that i pray to the CH gods and make my real damage off of fafnir. otherwise i am just plain afraid of getting close to robo and applying too much pressure. i can't keep robo from getting tension or heat (which feels just as dangerous with 6H). all in all, i feel like i'm really walking on eggshells here

any advice would be warmly received :]

Slayer is retarded in AC. Link system allows him to convert pretty much any hit into solid damage with 25% meter, his CHs are great and give him free combos, and all his combos end in knockdown and oki.

To be honest, I didn't have much experience in this match-up until a friend pointed out a relatively simple fact, which I promptly tested at SER v.2 with great results: outside of 2HS range, Slayer only has 3 ways to come in and start his mix-up, 6HS, Mappa, and IAD/jump in j.HS. That being said, if you can find what beats those three ways in, along with baiting 2HS effectively, then you can fight a Slayer. HOS' main answer(s) to 6HS, Mappa, and j.HS come in two flavors: GB and 2D, with GB being the better option. Both will either hit Slayer out of his offense, or whiff his offense and recover in time to be safe, so you can throw it out occasionally.

The problem starts when Slayer begins relying on 2HS to prevent you from keeping him out. 2HS CHs 2D (ugly) and hits you out of GB (non CH). The solution to 2HS spamming is an easy j.P whiff falling j.HS. At that point it becomes a little mindgame on whether you're going to jump in (so he has to anti-air with 2S and 6P, both of which score a CH on falling j.HS but clash/whiff if you do another j.P instead. If Slayer anti-airs with 5P then you trade if you do another j.P, or lose if you do a j.HS), or whether you're going to continue keeping him out (for more 2HS spam). The funny part is, if Slayer tries to anti-air with 5P, 2S or 6P, they all lose to 2D. Even if Slayer uses his FB BBU to anti-air (bad decision), 2D/GB win. So we're right back where we started in terms of keeping Slayer guessing.

Offensively...I'm not too sure. I was focused more on baiting and countering Slayer than starting my own offense, but when I did get a chance I just used basic mix-up and tick throws. Personally, I prefer to back off and Charge in this fight, forcing Slayer to come in and begin the baiting game again. That way, I always have Charge to combo with when I do score a hit. Meaty oki (particularly 6K) on Slayer is particularly effective (no DP) until he gets 50% tension. Speaking of 50% tension: fear Dead on Time (punch super). Once Slayer has 50% and you're trying to come in, you HAVE to bait it. However, once you successfully bait it you get a free punish with Slayer pretty much in the corner (a running Fafnir into air combo is great for this).

Originally posted by TITANIUM BEAST!!!:

Some more observations on the Slayer matchup:

2HS is an annoying move, especially when he uses it to zone you. However, your 5S(f) beats it out on startup if both moves are thrown at the same time. The catch here is that his 6P will CH your 5S(f), but he must guess on this one and as WUT posted above, 2D will beat 6P for a free CH into combo, so this gives you another tool in the midscreen baiting game.

2S can also beat 2HS, though the consistency of this is arguable. Regardless, I've been able to CH Slayer out of his 2HS with 2S, but other pokes like 2K and 5K will probably beat it out.

Another tool against 2HS is Fafnir. At first, it seems like Fafnir would lose to 2HS due to the lower-body invincibility on the move, but this only happens if you do your Fafnir first or at the same time as his 2HS. Slayer's 2HS only has lower-body invincibility up to the first active frame of the move, same as Fafnir. So if you do Fafnir after he does 2HS, you will beat it. This is another baiting game, as basically whoever does their move first will lose. The risk/reward is roughly equal here, except that Slayer doesn't have to commit to using his 25% meter immediately. So trudge carefully.

One place that the above information can really come in handy is when you are on defense. Some Slayer players like to autopilot their links when they are on offense, which you can take advantage of. If the Slayer you are fighting is always doing 2K-2HS, you can block the 2K and Fafnir against the 2HS for a free combo.

Another tip for in-close fighting is to use 2P. Slayer's 2K has this annoying property of being able to evade 5K even at fairly close ranges (except for point-blank). However, 2P will usually beat 2K cleanly. It will also beat out 6HS if you are in range to hit Slayer. So use 2P more often for starting your strings in this fight.

I've been relatively unsuccessful with getting j.P to clash with Slayer's 2S, so I would opt to FD if I throw j.P and he hasn't thrown out another move. In general, I don't like to just use j.P out of the blue in this matchup, I get anti-aired way too much.

Backing up and Charging is a requirement versus Slayer. Trying to initiate offense at midscreen is far too risky as the risk/reward is heavily skewed in Slayer's favor. It's better to play conservatively and try to make Slayer come at you so you can counter his approach and get a knockdown to start your offense. Level 2/level 3 makes this fight much easier as well.

Some other stuff:

Properly spaced, your 6P will beat Slayer's 6P. 6P is useful in general as long as you are outside of 2HS range.

Usually, j.P will stop Slayer's IAD j.HS cold, but if he is far enough away, you won't be able to hit him and may even risk a CH. Spacing is IMPORTANT.

Another move that will help you get around 2HS spam is BRP at pretty much any level. However, again, this will lose to 6P and CH 6P leads to a huge chunk of your life. The risk is usually only worth it if you have level 3 since you can combo off of it for big damage, but level 2 is ok to go for occasionally since you will get the knockdown you want. Level 1 is not worth it.

I think that's all I can remember for now. Fuck Slayer.

Originally posted by Mitsurugi:

When he is from afar and you fear an upper Mist Finer (MF), you can dash-jump and or double jump and FD it to bait the MF. If the JO player perform it, he would lose a level 2.

Dash Brake (run and FD) with low FD if you want to approach from the ground. Same thing here in order to make him waste a level (MF-K or S) if he uses it as a poke/thinks there is an opening.

Anyway if he zones you from afar, that is a good opportunity to charge since you can cancel before he gets close to you. Avoid the burst cancel whatever it is called, it may works the first time but afterward, you'll get baited and punished after it.

2H mashing is easy to punish thanks to OS small jump. Don't know how, but I played two good HOS players and if I carelessly throw out it, they small jump (anticipate it) and big combo.

On the opposite, i think OS has good frame traps and "priority" that makes it hard for JO to escape pressure : 2H is really risky and blocking (FD, IB) then punishing or escaping when there is a true hole (not a bait from the frame trap) are better options for JO than mashing the panic button IMO.

When you wake up, beware of 2D or dash > throw too, either masked by a coin or a little gatling beforehand or not.

Don't recklessly throw out reversal SV as an appropriate 3H will nicely stuff it thanks to its range and 2 hits (CH against all reversal shoryukens but the distance varies for JO). Granted, it he does it too close you can nail him but that should not happen often.

3H is not a low by the way !

Do not poke with Rock It as a simple 5K will CH hit.

Originally posted by LM_Akira:

I honestly feel backdash is your best friend when playing Johnny, not to be used too often but it's good against coins at midrange and to bait any pokes that have laggy recovery. You can nullify coins with 6P but it's not something I find myself doing much. Jumping in a neutral situation will probably get you killed as Johnny has 5HS, 6P and Lv1 P MF as anti air to stop you, unless you FD. Even 3HS and 6HS can work as anti airs!!

KJT KJ can actually hit you if you do Lv1 BHB AC on the other side of the screen without FRCing, so it's probably best not to do it much (unless Johnny's been knocked down or something).

And yeah, Johnny has no invincible dragon punch style move to get himself out of pressure (apart from That's my name) so he will naturally have trouble with pressure/block strings up close and fuzzy guard off j.S can be useful for knockdown.

HOS can also dash sweep underneath coins as a further way to avoid them but you'd need to be up close to start with and be confident in judging distance.

Now, to beat Potemkin:

Round start:

Starting positions usually give plenty of openings in many matchups. Against Potemkin this is not entirely the case. Three major things to consider are: Heat Knuckle, Hammerfall and Slidehead; anything else you should be able to beat with either 2D, 2S, 5S or jump attacks. While these three moves seem rather stupid individually, the mixup between these would effectively deny you from opening with an attack and therefore with momentum. Now 2 of these moves are countered by doing nothing(guarding), the third by a backdash. However, these actions set up a new set of mixups for Potemkin, which can result in you eating a Potemkin buster, Potemkin's 6H or a forced Slidehead from guarding that 6H normally. Essentially you want to make sure that the opening mixup stays among the big three for if it takes on a metagame of its own you will give momentum to Potemkin(who can really put that to good use).

To beat both Slidehead and Hammerfall, I recommend starting with IAD.PPP, it will evade Slidehead and will always stuff Hammerfall. One of the weaknesses to this is obviously heat knuckle(but you will still beat it if he tries to react to you). A lesser weakness is 6P, I'm calling it a lesser weakness because OS's jP clashes OFTEN with Potemkin's 6P, which is in your advantage.

An alternative, which essentially renders you immune from the big 3 during round start, is Gun Blaze. The move will hit before Slidehead executes, will completely evade(and punish) Hammerfall and will plant you right next to a Heat Knuckling Potemkin in his recovery. This move is countered by pretty much any low/throw, so use sparingly.

Another option, which leaves you only vulnerable to Hammerfall is Ri, the move will beat Slidehead when it's launched at the same time as Slidehead and will get you a knockdown against almost any Potemkin opening.

These are some 66% or better openings I know off. I mix them up with the regular normals and simply moving away to get the best effect out of them.

Situation neutral, distance far:

Whenever Potemkin seems to be forcing this situation, he wants to slow down the match. There isn't a whole lot of things you can do to him, nor that he can do to you. If you like leveling, now you're getting it for free, just keep dodging/charge bursting the Slideheads and you will end up at level 3 in no time. If you prefer to keep level 1 or are already fully charged, you will need to close the distance... without eating a Slidehead. I put emphasis on that last part, because if you close the distance while eating one of those, you end up right next to Potemkin and you lose momentum. In fact, when this happens, you did Potemkin's work for him! So move forwards, bit by bit, always be ready to jump and always be ready to faultless guard. If Potemkin mistimes his Slidehead, you can do a runjump and get a combo on him. To get closer: when you end up right outside his 5H range you will almost always want to stop, as that 5H is very likely to come out. If it does, you have a free run in. Otherwise, you've end up in a neutral, midrange situation.

Situation neutral, mid range:

This distance is defined as being inside 5H range but outside Bus tour range. At distance, you should be careful about attacking high while standing on the ground. Your primary tools (5S(f), 5H) can get Slideheaded. Preferably you want to gain a little extra distance and attack with 2D or 2S, from there you can start your offense. Though for as far as I know, both 2D and 2S can result in you taking an involuntary bus tour. However, when you 2D at maximum range and it gets backdashed, you're out of Potbuster range. If your gut feeling tells you he's going to attempt to take you on a busride, either fake forward movement(and backdash) or jump. Both of these options have their weaknesses, jumping makes you vulnerable to Heat Knuckle and to a lesser extend; his AA normals, while backdashing makes you vulnerable to 6H, 5S(f), 2D and Slidehead. If you however managed to pick the right choice, you get a free combo or you gain offense.

Situation neutral, close range:

This situation doesn't exist in this matchup. You will always force an offense or be forced to defend depending on how you got into this type of range.

Offense, close range:

This range is basically, Potemkin bus tour range. As anyone that knows math knows, getting caught in a bus tour twice generally means a round lost, so be very careful about how you go about this. Things you should know is: Potemkin Buster doesn't track, it can only be executed to the left or to the right, if you see a large enough timespan, you can turn a Potemkin buster into a jab by Gun Blazing(or by faking one). The much simpler trick is to set up a jump. I'm talking set up here as you don't want him to AA you now do you? Now if you feel he's going to open his defense with a plain Buster, feel free to jump immediately and convert that free jH into a combo. If he's waiting for you to start stringing, normals like 5S(any) and 5K should provide you with enough momentum to allow for a jump. When doing these kind of jumps, you're either looking for the IAD.PPP(which stops Heat Knuckle and Hammerfall) or a jS which you convert to fuzzy mixup.

In the more common situation, Potemkin will look for something that he can backdash so he can use your whiff recovery as an opening. One of the options to prevent him from doing this is Rock it. The other way to prevent getting punished is by opening with the quick normals such as 2P, 5P and 5K. Do not open close range with your slashes because the recovery on it is simply too big. The same problem is found on your 6K, which despite it's active time will often completely miss Potemkin in his backdash. Once you see a backdash, either backdash yourself and do a fafnir, do a l2/3BRP or if you're quick enough do a BHB and AC FRC it.

In the event that Potemkin shuts down and doesn't try anything except for guarding, you will have all the mixup freedom you want. When you get into close range, your throw will beat the Potemkin buster 80% of the time, 5D is available. l1BRP and 2H are not useable in this situation. They are both -1 on guard and that means potbusterable on impact guard; 5D often reaps you much better rewards for its risks.

Defense, close range:

When guarding, there's only a handful of things that Potemkin will really commit too. It's either going to be Potemkin buster, or 5K into knockdown. Anything else is good for him if he gets it, but it won't be something he intends to break your guard with. Shinjin posted an article on an option select guard. I've not been able to execute this myself so I still rely on hardcore guessing. To throw off Potemkin's timing, you will want to mixup impact guards with faultless guards, doing so will give you the option to stay on the ground(perhaps even backdash) and still not get bustered. This in turn means that Potemkin doesn't have a 50/50 game with Heat Knuckle anymore giving you more breathing room.

Some generic things you should keep in the back of your head: Potemkin doesn't use a full Hammerfall as an offensive tool; always mixup between back jump faultless or back dash when you see one. You can also Storm viper, but I don't recommend this. If you see a Slidehead, you should always jump or fafnir, the move cannot hit you high or in the air and should not catch you as you jump; in short, always a clean get away. Potemkin's normals tend to do fairly well at catching backdashes, so only backdash in situations where you will end up out of range of those normals. If Potemkin is taking long for one of his setups, faultless guard it, usually he will miss it completely.

Special things to consider:

Potemkin players can decide to heat extend you across the field. They are not going for damage, knockdown or lockdown here, they purposely intend to slow down the pacing of the match. Whenever you're sent across the field, charging is recommended.

This fact might be both laughable and fearsome at the same time: Potemkin can mash and queue up a potbuster at the same time by rotating and pressing P everytime 6 is hit. You should consider not pulling through with BHB combos and be extremely wary about trading up(using your combo as a GB or 5D setup), if you're confident enough, you can backdash when a "PB opening" occurs and punish with fafnir; if you're less confident, you're back at IAD.PPP...

When doing superjump combos and regular dustloops, Potemkin will be able to tech in the air and can consider attacking you with any of his attacks, if you're not getting input jammed, Gunblaze, otherwise jump up to where you can guard, impact guard the attack and throw him as soon as you hit the ground. If for some reason you're forced to guard jD take defensive action as it's a really strong setup for potbuster.

Be on the lookout for Potemkin's tech direction. If he's teching backwards, he's trying to prevent an attack from you; most likely he will have a potbuster queued up when he hits the ground. Just wait outside his range, or jump at him. If he's teching forward or neutral, he's a Gun blaze target. If you see him guard(or getting ready to guard) you can airthrow him. Do not try to attack him air to air in this situation, his attacks will beat yours, even if you're coming in from behind. If the first GB misses while he's above it, consider GBing again as it might hit him, otherwise... it's still +a shitload.

AntiAiring:

In the case that Potemkin jumps at you(and thus does not end up above you), you will find that his jS and jH take a lot of priority. However, both of these moves are vulnerable to a well timed sweep and his jH can be beaten by a l1Ri at any timing.

Okizeme Offense:

When you're doing a Gun Blaze, always be sure you are outside potbuster range before potbuster can hit you. Just a small dash should help you; AC FRCing to level 2 and using that is also viable. l1Ri also seems to be a good way to not get thrown during okizeme, and it links to 5K... Other than that, if you hit your meaties spot on, Potemkin buster cannot hit you. But to be safe from pretty much everything, jump and go for fuzzy mixup. Potemkin has a huge hitbox and is really easy to attack this way. Backdashes in these situations, I really recommend waiting them out and jumping in at the proper timing, or doublejumping and attacking at the proper timing; 6K will not save you and any other ground normal isn't reliable. As for previously unavailable mixup tools, 2H becomes available if done early enough(as long as Potemkin doesn't backdash it).

Okizeme Defense:

Whenever you see Potemkin do something that is not a safejump, an early 5P or an early 5K, you can storm viper it. I'm putting emphasis on the 6K(head butt) and Slidehead, both of these attacks are fairly telegraphed and an easy get out of jail for free card. Even if you miss the storm viper against the Slidehead, he has too much recovery to punish you and if you AC FRC it you even gain offense. Do not try to be fancy and Gun Blaze this, 6K will hit you out of it.

If you see 5P, jump. If Potemkin is safejumping, mixup between impact and faultless guard, getting this right can pretty much instantly shut down Potemkin's offense and put you back in a neutral situation. You can mixup your wakeup with backdashes but be careful about that 6H. If you have level 3 Tyrant Rave available and you see him doing an early 6H, use it; it's 200 damage pretty much for free and you can charge to full level right after again.

The 2 things that should probably worry you the most in this fight are Potemkin Buster and Slide Head. Since PB now has an FRC point, if (when?!) Potemkin lands a PB and has bar he can do monstrous damage in a few seconds and also set you up for the 6HS, slide head wakeup game. That means big damage in midscreen for him now. PB can grab limbs randomly and has horrendous range, so even when you're doing a short block string on him it's possible for him to PB YOU out of your attacks. Watch out for other PB tricks like backdash, PB and hammerfall break, PB. It may sound obvious repeating this old information but it's good to be aware of it I feel.

Slide head loops are nasty if you get caught in one without a burst. Potemkin won't be throwing these out too randomly close up (as you can actually block it then) but it is a constant threat you need to watch for. To stop yourself being hit by slide head in open play you have a few options:

1) Backdash

2) Jump

3) Charge Burst

4) Fafnir

5) BRP/SV

{6) Standing FD but it's a HOS glitch lol}

Back dash is obvious as you're airborne (and have some form of invincibility) as the slide head hits the ground. Jumping is also another basic option which is relatively risk free. If you're charging, a charge burst timed correctly will avoid the ground hit through invincibility, as will Fafnir which has lower body invincibility during start up. Depending on the range, it's possible to score counter hits against slide head when using Fafnir, giving you a free combo. You can BRP or SV on reaction (provided you're not already doing something) but back dashing is probably a lot safer. Lv3 BRP may score you a free combo depending on the range.

If you get knocked down and Potemkin throws out 6HS as oki you can either reversal SV it or backdash. Backdash is hard against 6HS because if you're out by a few frames or your opponent's timing is a little off you can still end up being tagged by the move and taking considerable damage. But it's probably worth learning to reversal backdash on wakeup because Potemkin can also use Giganter as a mixup instead of 6HS...both can lead to him getting in slide head and then getting his otg stuff in, if they are blocked. SV won't work vs giganter but backdash does.

Bizarrely it is actually better to let 6HS hit than block it on wakeup as it stops Potemkin from canceling into guaranteed slide head. But ideally you should watch out for what Potemkin goes for and either backdash or SV. SV can be easily baited however, even punished with things like judge gauntlet if you become too predictable. So it comes down to your opponent and what exactly they like to do.

If you have a burst and are going to use it to escape a loop, the best time to burst is just as he goes for the otg 5K, it should leave you in a decent (read "safe") position.

Overall I think this matchup can be approached from 2 distinct standpoints. One being rather defensive, holding back and charging up to make the most of your higher levels and the other being all out rushdown and mixing things up as quickly and as much as possible. Watch for his anti air 6P which can lead into either basic short retaliation combos or nasty tech traps. He has big range on his 5HS, 2D and 6HS (obviously!) as well as a few other things. His 2S now vacuums which can be a right pain sometimes and really helps out his combos.

Taking damage off him is like fighting a tank as usual but you can land pretty solid combos on him near the corner. Multiple j.Ps or any fast jump in will stuff his super armour on hammer fall, just don't try to ground poke it when he's right in your face as you can often end up taking the hit.

That's what I've come up with so far I guess.

Originally posted by WUT:

One little correction for the Potemkin part, otherwise it all sounds decent. If Pot is using 6HS on wakeup then just learn to IB it. You can then either backdash or jump the Slide Head. Sure, it's harder than just getting hit by it (bad idea; leads to potentially being dizzied if he gets another big hit in), or just using SV (6HS FRC exists for a reason and reversal shoryu just begs for Potty to PB or 2HS for the punish), but it's easier than trying to reversal backdash and taking the risk of getting hit anyhow. Also: 2S rocks this fight, Fafnir rocks this fight, and don't pretend HOS has a ground to air anti-air against Pot; he doesn't. J.P all the way.

Also Also: the FD glitch against Slide Head only works when you're not in guard stun. 6HS xx Slide Head will still work normally; random Slide Heads from full screen doesn't.

Edit: FD Glitch: FD while *standing* (and not in guard stun). If you're at the range where Slide Head is an unblockable (aka not physically hit by Potemkin, where Slide Head is a low) you will completely avoid it. Have to be standing; crouching leads to a normal unblockable Slide Head.

Originally posted by TITANIUM BEAST!!!:

I've noticed that Potemkin players are opting out of 6HS oki now and going instead for really meaty Slide Head at the unblockable distance. Remember that you can reverse this with Fafnir for free if you are in range. As far as 6HS oki, I would always SV it unless I see the opponent has meter to FRC the move; there's no reason to IB and attempt a backdash or jump away when you can reverse for free. You can also do Gun Blaze under 6HS on wakeup, but if the 6HS is done early enough, his fists will retract before the flame becomes active, so be careful when using it.

Originally posted by WUT:

6K is decent for oki, but beware when he has 50%. Reversal Giganter is a free CH on 6K. If he doesn't have 50%, a simple reversal backdash can completely whiff 6K and score him a free PB during recovery. GB is a pretty crappy idea too. FDB and reversal backdash pretty much take away any initiative you get from GB. The safest oki tends to come from deep jump-ins, primarily j.S (for potential fuzzy guard) and j.HS. Both are safe against Giganter and reversal backdash, and both force pot to guard.

On Hoss vs Millia:

It's actually a fairly balanced match. While hos has jp millia hs jk, and while yes you can stuff millia's 2d with hos 2s, you have to be close enough, and realistically if millia is on the ground shes not going to put her pixie lifebar on the line to trade pokes with hos, and in most situations she isn't even going to be on the ground any way:vbang:

Honestly, this matchup is not that balanced - it's easily one of Millia's worst and probably one of Order-Sol's best. It's true that Millia does best in the air, but she has to contend with Order-Sol j.P which is arguably the best air normal in the game in terms of risk/reward. It's not wise for her to throw out j.K, as it's very laggy on whiff, leaving you open for potential j.Ps. Millia can use her own j.P to similar effect, but it's much harder for her to convert into anything meaningful since a gatling to j.K-D requires extreme closeness (j.P CH j.H is possible though). Order-Sol can of course, easily convert to 25-30% damage on Millia via j.K djc. whatever -> SV, or get free pressure on block.

Another problem for Millia players lies in that she can't run her usual long range game, as even that stuff is risky vs OS: he can dash under j.D and punish her on landing recovery, or IAD/jump/running 2S to beat her 2D. 2S in general seems to beat a lot of her pokes, and nets easy, safe damage via 2S CH 6H.

One similarity both characters share is difficulty in AAing: Order-Sol j.H cleanly beats all of Millia's AA if it hits directly above her head, while the same can be said for Millia j.S. Both characters have other options: OS can Gunblaze or j.P for AA, while Millia generally blocks or backdashes for distance. Millia's 6P is decent as AA, but it is very laggy and gets her killed on whiff.

A good portion of this match is generally spent jockeying for air position, with Millia looking for an opening to start ground -> air pressure and mixup, while Order-Sol shuts her down with j.P, leading to either ATG pressure or a basic aircombo -> SV for decent damage. If Millia isn't successful in scoring a hit, she's forced back to the ground and Order-Sol is free to run his superior neutral game.

Okay Order-Sol players...

What's your opinion on the match up against I-No

What about her do you fear the most?

What weakness of hers do you find easiest/best to exploit?

General gameplan?

I find that randomly pressing 5K when I-no is rushing me down = dead I-no.

In general I think this match is in HOS's favor or possibly even. I-no can zone HOS but it's difficult for her and HOS has more ways around her rush/pressure.

The scariest thing about any I-no is gonna be the mixup and her huge damage off of a successful hit. While she doesn't hit as hard as she did in Slash, good I-no combos still hurt like a mother.

Her biggest weakness, again, IMO, is that it is really easy to interrupt her offense sometimes. Her ability to actually lock HOS down is weak.

General gameplan is to just wait for an opening to hit her out of her offensive setup and then start rushing her down. I try to respect her space a little initially so I don't eat a random j.HS or something similar that might knock me on my ass. My main goal is to let her create an opening for me to exploit so I can start my own game.

I dunno, it's been a long time since I've played a decent I-no, our local player pretty much dropped out of the scene.

I was actually going to start this matchup thread very soon as I've had the opportunity to play a great I-No player recently and I wanted to discuss it with other HOS players.

I was under this impression the match was considered 6-4 to HOS in the early days of AC but no idea what it's considered now.

The thing I fear about most is constantly watching for the mixup after knockdown:

Hoverdash j.K,

hoverdash whiff j.HS land throw,

hoverdash j.K land hoverdash j.K,

hoverdash land 2K,

hoverdash land 2K hoverdash j.K

etc...

It's funny, it's 50-50 to try and react to the high - low but one of our players said it's not even that because she can land and throw, so it's like 33.33-33.33-33.33 or 1 out of 3 in terms of guessing lol

This is without doubt the thing I hate about playing I-No the most. Even if you block the initial mixup, a good player can still mix you up afterwards and score damage.

Stuff like j.K can be timed so they're reversal safe. If I whiffed a reversal/wakeup SV I found myself getting air thrown and combo'd. So I fear the knockdown more than anything I guess, since that's where the main mixup game comes into it.

I find Note a pain too, since blocking it on the ground actually gives I-No an easier opportunity to mix you up. I try to avoid it by high jumps or double jumps or block it in the air. I remember seeing Kaqn doing this all the time so I figured he must be doing it for a reason.

I will search for some of my vids (and some old HOS-I-No matches) and see what more I can think of.

The thing I enjoy about fighting I-no is that I play Order-Sol. In other words I don't need tension for big damage.

That tension for me, a important tool to get I-no out of my face. FD pushes I-no out automatically. That's how I tend to deal with the mixups. Oddly I enjoy I-no rushing me down... I have to see what the I-no player is capable of.

My main AA tools are 5K at close range and 5HS mid range or SV. SV is what I use when I want some meter fast. It gets you out of my face and puts me a spot to gain charge. 5HS is great. Pretty much I-no's best way to beat that move is to either A)Block it or B)Air OD.

Personally regarding the note, I prefer to block it or go airborne.

Ground normals I use against I-no are 2S/5K/2P/2K/2D. And whatever you if do if you see HOS is the air, if he hasn't attacked yet DO NOT DO HCL/VCL unless he's far enough away you can't get hit. If you end up to close you'll just get SV or thrown.

The air: If I'm in the air I'm going for either:

A:Blocking/avoiding the note

B:Air throw or SV

C:Creating some space. Mainly jumping away. I don't want you in my face. If HOS jumps in on you, airthrow.

FDing HOS..well I just CC if that happens.

BMS, I remember you postin that HOS players tend to be overly aggressive. That's not really true. Don't think like that. That's assuming your opponents gameplan. Not all HOS players are like that. That's like assuming I-no will always do an VCL if she's in the air.

Something to note though, if the HOS you play doesn't FD your offense that's something you really have in your favor. I-no's strength is her mixups. You must use it's potential. High/low/throws/airthrows all of it.

Something I find really odd about I-no... sometimes if I do 5K to early, she'll do j.D and evade and punish my 5K....

I say the matchup is 5-5 or 5.5-4.5....

Weaknessess: HOS can't control space on the level I-no can. Both suffer from being FD but HOS can gain +Fs via CC in case that happens. I-no's mixups are high class but HOS can answer to a lot of her moves. Neither can be reckless in this fight. One KD is all either one of them needs to gain control. They are kinda alike in a sense.

Just wanted to point out I-No's amazing high/low/throw oki game. Similar to Millia and others, you can feasibly kill the opponent with 1 knockdown (granted it takes work and solid mixups). Example vids (not vs HOS):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcHrY2q_qT0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo2zBGaRE0w

I would say that she has almost no way to lock an HOS player down. The best is to just pin him down with notes. Especially with his fucked up hitbox that makes alot of bread and butter miss.

lol, funny thing. that's pretty much her gameplan against you. wait for you to give an opening.

I would say that the match is 5-5.

Yea, infact, 9 times out of 10 if I land in range, I'm going to go for a throw. The success rate is outstanding.

I'm going to tell you guys a secret, the worst thing you can do with a note is block it normally, the 2nd worst thing you can do is try to jump it. (including DJ and SJ) If you jump it, it's going to give I-No a free air throw. If you block it normally, then I-No is going to get damage off it no matter what she does. The best thing you can possibly do is A) go under it, B) fualtless defense block, or C) block it in air.

My execution was pretty shitty, so don't give me shit but the first match here really illustrates all my points about notes, as well as give examples of landing into a throw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE9GhIZyh3o

SV = Free throw for I-No. Even if you're only using it for AA.

You're right about the assuming, I was just saying what it's been like from experence thus far.

FDing really works out in I-No's favor. Mixup isn't I-No's only tool and when you FD it makes it very easy for I-No to redash in and try something else.

Never heard of punishing 5K with j.D. I'll have to give that a shot. Is it a opening j.D or a falling j.D?

I agree, this is a catious fight for both sides.

Keep the discussion coming in! Love to hear more.

What's the best tool HOS has for wake up against a throw range I-No?

What sign do you guys use as a tool to know when to burst out of a combo?

6K as meaty is riskier then you'd think(low profile weakness), I'd go for 2H during okizeme.

well if ino is in throw range

unless she throws out a throw invincible move probably throw i-no since i have throw invincibility on wakeup

if she is throwing out the throw invincible moves ill probably just start backdashing

for the burst thing

i would probably burst if there wasn't a move that could easily bait it (EX would be moves with bad recovery like Heavys)

Blocking ino gets a lot easier after you've had some exposure to it. Basically it just becomes a game of "watch out or the low".

I don't see why you guys limit your selves to stuff like meaty 2p/5k so much. Even 6k is really easy to use in excess. Like 80% of the time I get a clean kd after I already have lv2, I use meaty js to start pressure. It's really the only way to establish a good guessing game hos has outside of "Am I going to throw you or not". I think in the same vein, because I rarely do it, my 6ks end up being more successful, although I am a lot more liable to throw it out when I have the tension for the ch combo >.>

(replying to excelence about SBing against Axl's 2HS and then doing Fafnir)

Um. Don't try to SB the second hit of 2H. It's a lot harder than it sounds. For one thing, the gap between the hits can be as low as 0 frames, meaning that the second hit will hit on the frame after the first one does. Secondly, the gap will vary based on how far into the first hit (which active frame) connected. Lastly, the move doesn't need a CH to stagger, so even if you can wiggle out quickly, getting hit by the back-pull of 2H is just free offensive momentum for Axl.

Probably a better idea would be to IB the first hit and FD the second, since this would presumably pull HOS closer. Either way, I'd call this a very disadvantageous matchup for OS. Keeping ground pressure, like most matches against Axl, is easy, but getting it in the first place is something that HOS doesn't really have very many tools to do.

Your best bet is to try to bait the Axl player into throwing something out that won't connect, so that you can get in, but due to HOS's low jumps, mediocre airdash, and lack of moves that will reliably beat out chains while moving him forward (or for that matter, even gain a knockdown from far away,) HOS just has one hell of a time getting in otherwise, and Axl has no reason to do anything but wait and see what he should throw out. Focus on tripping up the Axl and taking advantage of gaps created to get in, and most of all, once you're in, STAY THERE. Keep pressure going no matter what. Watch out for Housoubako and go for lows often to prevent it. Also keep in mind that a smart Axl will try to push you out with FD, giving him enough time to try to beat you out with 6K, 5K, f.S, 2H, or 2S (depending on the angle you come in from. Also watch out for 2K, which will go over most aerial and some grounded moves. If you suspect one is coming, go for a low j.H, which will hit Axl despite the "low profile" hitbox. Just as HOS has few if any tools to get in on Axl, Axl has few tools to beat out HOS once he's in, but that doesn't mean you don't have to be wary of attempts.

Some random things that might work getting in:

-I've seen j.H beat out Axl's chains on occasion, especially Axl's j.S.

-If the Axl is going for a combo instead of using optimal zoning spacing, it may be safe to try a SV to get a knockdown.

-If you can get out of Axl's reach, you can try to make the Axl nervous by charging your meter and trying to bait pokes to beat out with the charge burst.

All in all, this matchup is horrid for HOS, but definitely not unwinnable.

Lots more discussion can be found here:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3999

With Little Eddie/Shadow out it's going to be hard work fighting Eddie, try to take out Shadow with any chance you get or turtle and try to wait out Shadow's bar. Without Shadow, Eddie is weak to your close range pressure (once you get in). His blocking sprite is HUGE so you can crank his guard bar quite nicely with fuzzy guard type shenanigans and CC lockdown, especially in the corner. Watch for his normal throw, it has big range (49 dots). His 2S, 5S(f) and drills stop you simply running him down and his 2HS and 6P function as good anti air.

Shadow moves;

- P is not really much to worry about as far as I can tell. It has invincibility and advances Shadow a little bit but it's not something to be too frightened of as it won't lead to much.

- K (Mawaru) you will probably see a lot in block strings/combos/Shadow Gallery loops etc and is a 2-hit claw which vacuums on hit or block (see later how to deal with it).

- S (Nobiru) controls space directly in front of Eddie very well and causes wall bounce on hit.

- HS ("Puddle") will only be used in certain setups and needs to be guarded low. If you're caught by the puddle, Eddie gets a free combo and knockdown.

- D ("Spit ball") overhead and frequently used in unblockables.

A few unblockables of note;

- Eddie's 5K and Shadow's Spit ball

- Drill FRC IAD j.S/j.HS

- FB Drill and Shadow's Spit ball

- Command throw into Shadow's Puddle (or a jumping move when you're trying to block Shadow's Puddle)

For a comprehensive guide to Eddie's unblockables and how to deal with them, see Teyah's post here:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=179468&postcount=5

Eddie's 5K is a low and his 6K (the slow claw move) is an overhead, you'll see these frequently in blockstrings that use Shadow's Mawaru. Some points about dealing with block strings that utilise Mawaru:

Originally posted by Teyah:

There's a 3-frame gap between both hits of the Shadow K attack, 6F if you IB. Some possible and practical solutions to get out of a straight 2 hits of Mawaru include:

- IB, backdash - 6F timing, time it late so you don't get caught by the tail end of the 2nd hit

- IB, 5K (should kill the shadow) - 3F timing

- Regular block, backdash - 3F timing

- Regular block / IB, Storm Viper - 3/6F timing

- IB, FD jump - 5F timing (~2-3F timing to actually get out of range)

- SB - 2F timing to Slashback successfully, 13F to do whatever you want after

I'll probably edit this post once I get a clear idea of where to go with this one.

Thanks guys.

Let's get it started and branch out from here:

Getting Zoned

Faust has a relatively easy time keeping HOS out once he's pushed you back/escaped. 5S(f), 2HS, and 2D are all solid mid/long-range pokes that both annoy you and potentially start his offense (cancelling into item throw or scalpel pull). Along with his superb ground-to-airs, j.HS has absurd range, restricting your movement should you try to jump over his ground pokes from further out. Some things to keep in mind:

1: Faust is always at frame disadvantage when special cancelling into item throw (5S[f] and 2D leave him at -10, 2HS leaves him at -5).

2: Faust cancelling 2HS into 5P whiff leaves him with frame advantage (+2).

3: Scalpel Pull must be FD'd in the air, and you can't backdash it (kinda' obvious, but should still be mentioned).

Getting in requires a little conditioning and finesse. Faust has huge recovery time on his zoning normals, so whiffing any of them means you're in. FD brake is a godsend. Same with delayed double jumping, straight up IAD'ing, or jumping FD. Any time you're forced to guard his zoning shenanigans means he potentially gets a chance to start his mix-up. Faust should rely on 2HS and 2D more than 5S(f) when it comes to poking, as it is beat by 2D and GB. 2HS and 2D both lose to jumping, however, which 5S(f) covers (to an extent). As such, you can condition him to throwing one or the other and acting accordingly to counter it.

Against Anti-Airs

Jumping eliminates Faust's overwhelming ground game, but poses its own set of risks. Faust's anti-airs are amazing. 5K, 6P, 2K (lol) and 2S can all ruin your day. There is a secret, however. Aside from 2S, Faust must commit to his anti-airs and throw them early, or they trade/lose to j.P whiff falling j.HS. Once you make him pre-emptively throw out his anti-airs, you can proceed to come in via 2S/2D.

Pogo/ForceBreaks

I treat Pogo Stance, its FB counterpart, and FB hand slap in the same manner; Greed Sever-esque moves. Bait them, and punish. Faust has frame advantage if you guard the hand slap; both the pogos allow him to be punished should you block them. GB is a good option against both the FB attacks; you'll whiff them and score a CH. HOS also has an amusing way of dealing with Pogo Stance. 5K, 5S©, and 5HS all hit him out of it once the attack has finished. A dashing j.P also does the job nicely. If you're forced to guard pogo stance, remember that P (Faust headbutt) is an overhead that leaves him with frame advantage, and S (ground flower) is a low with frame advantage. He doesn't get anything but a guard break from the headbutt, but he gets combo + knockdown if the flower hits. Yes, it's stupid.

Against Items

This will mostly be tailored to your plan of attack/escape once the item has been thrown.

Food Leave it alone. You effectively halt item throw for the duration the candy is out.

Chibis If it's Faust or Robo-Ky, you can either approach on the ground, or wait until they land and try to SJ over. If it's Potemkin, try to get on the other side as soon as you can (but be smart about it, don't eat 50 damage from j.HS while trying to AD past it).

Hammer/Pan Whatever you do, don't get hit by them. That Dizzy Mod is absurd. 2 CH Hammers/Pans = pretty much a free Dizzy. Not nice.

Bomb If you're forced to guard it, FD (it has chip damage x2). SJing right before it explodes is optimal, but if Faust is waiting on it he can air throw you into the bomb and combo off the resulting explosion (very manly). Faust will hesistate on poking you, as he can extend his hitbox into the bomb and end up being hit (stupid). Visually, the bomb pulsates 3 times before exploding, just to help with your SJ timing (or SV timing, if you're REALLY manly).

Meteors I hate these things. Once Faust gets meteors, it's RTSD time for him. Thankfully, Faust's rushdown is really tame. SJing and guarding is your safest bet, otherwise you can try to GB if he approaches by air (Lvl2 escapes meteors rather nicely), or follow the earlier advice if he tries to approach with his longer ranged pokes.

Poison Be extra cautious and try not to get hit by this. I tend to dashing FD brake into it just to get rid of it, because poison just isn't nice. If he manages to get Poison during Oki (aka his Faultless Defense Cancel j.D cross-up/fake mix-up), don't reversal unless it's TR (lol). It's free poison + combo for him if you do.

Mix-up

Faust has quite a few options. Most of his overheads you can reaction guard (5D, 6HS, FB hand slap), meaning you can guard low most of the time. However, when Faust starts jc'ing and then doing FDC j.K to mix-up, you're in for a problem. What's nice is that the timing to do FDC j.K mix-up is pretty tight. If he does it too early he won't be able to combo after (FDC'ing adds recovery frames if done too soon), and if he does it too late you can either guard it, or he still can't combo after (from being too high up). Faust also has a command throw...well, not really a command throw, but more of an unblockable. I say that because you actually have a 4F window to interrupt it (after frame 1 he'll perform the throw as long as you're not throw invincible, and it activates in 5 frames). Faust's tick throw setups are pretty easy to see, as most of his faster pokes leave him with frame advantage (5P, 2P, 2K). Also, don't ever get hit by his teleporting door crap. Just jump and FD to guard all 3 options, then punish him for being stupid.

During Wake-Up

If the Faust you're playing has any experience against DP chars, he should know this one. Meaty 2K cannot be reversal SV'd; you will whiff and he will punish. Thankfully it's telegraphed, so you can just guard low and wait to escape. As mentioned earlier, he may try for FDC j.D cross-up/fake mix-up during Oki. Personally I find it hard to guard, so I recommend exposure and just learning when it will or won't cross-up. Experience.

Your Offense

The fun part. Thankfully, Faust's ability to get out of pressure is weak. Aside from his FB hand slap and Pogo acting as Greed Severs, he pretty much has to sit there and guard or try to 1F jump out. This means that your CC pressure works nicely. Tick throws also work wonders, provided you punish his Greed Severs enough to make him think twice about throwing them out to counter your assault. Once you pin him down your main focus should be on keeping him there, which shouldn't be too hard given Faust's limited options. Have a blast.

In terms of fighting against her, I believe the idea is to try and stop her transforming as much as possible. Keep Normal Mode ABA under as much pressure as possible because if she gets a chance to transform into Moroha Mode, your job is going to become a nightmare. The problem with this is the fact that Normal Mode ABA will always be looking for a chance to transform so you need to stay on your toes. So just saying "pressure Normal Mode ABA so she can't transform" is easier said than done .

Normal Mode ABA poses no real threat to you. If you can get up into her face, CC lockdown works nicely as long as you mixup your options. Watch out for 2K or 2D as these both lead to free keygrabs, as well her throw and 2HS. Keygrab will work from a surprising number of options, as well as by itself (e.g. predictable Lv1 Rock Its can be keygrabbed!).

Moroha Mode ABA is scary. Don't try and combo her unless you're;

a) Going to kill her

b) Can end the combo in knockdown

c) Her Moroha gauge will empty by the time the combo has finished

3 knockdowns will remove all of her Moroha bar and will give you a free combo after the 3rd one (she's vulnerable as she gets up). So try to go for the knockdowns instead of combos as a good ABA will always know when to recover their health and generally undo the work you did in killing her during her Moroha Mode rampage.

Some random notes:

- whiff j.P falling j.HS will lose to Normal Mode's 2HS (and give her a free combo and transform) and Danzai in Moroha mode (you will most likely land a CH with the j.HS but the super armour will just absorb it). I'm pretty sure this will lose to Moroha mode's 6P as well. In the case of Normal Mode, the damage is nothing to worry about (but she gets a transform ) however, in Moroha Mode she can hurt you really badly from these anti airs, especially leading into the corner. I didn't test out j.P, j.P. Maybe j.P FD (if they don't do anything at first) as Titanium Beast suggest against Slayer's 2S may work better if you're going to jump forwards.

- Moroha Mode 5S(f) will obliterate your 5S(f) or 2S, most likely other moves to (I didn't get a chance to try 5HS but I doubt it would be any use) at mid range. Basically you can't hit buttons if you're both on neutral ground and there's a gap between you because she will outpoke you and combo from the resultant hit.

- Moroha Mode ABA has a solid fuzzy guard game and can keep you in block stun for long periods of time (building your guard gauge in the blink of an eye). Dead Angle works well vs Moroha Mode to count as one of your knockdowns but smart ABA players will save their burst for these times and so will burst before she is knocked down (so in other words, Dead Angle when she doesn't have burst is a free knockdown).

- As with all dragon punches, Danzai needs to be baited (or at least an attempt to bait it must be made) it's super armour will most likely result in you being swatted away if you try to blindly rushdown Moroha Mode ABA.

- If the ABA player is abusing the stagger on the 2nd hit of rekkas, you need to mash out of it so's to stop them running back in and extending their combo.

- Lv1 GB functions as good anti air against Moroha Mode ABA (using j.S or Konzetsu as crossup/non crossup shenanigans on wakeup is also something to watch out for).

- Moroha Mode sweep has sickening range

Recent match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyS9MyCNDuc

I have some other matches where I'm not playing like a total scrub and I'm playing with more of a gameplan but I've got hours and hours of casuals to wade thru to find them.

Heres the fight / frame data of the most recent match..

You didn't check anything, which is why you couldn't give me player names etc.

I beat zer0kage (Ky), Frozenwave (Dizzy) and Fredb3 (Potemkin) in the groups. Frozenwave is new to GG, the others aren't. I lost to Goukifafa (who actually won the whole thing lol) and Inti (completely random May). In the the tie-breaker I beat Fred again and lost to Inti (again, random May is pain in the ass).

Further more you don't have a clue about any of these guys either.

"Nervous"? Nervous means SV after CH 2HS is going to combo? lol

Yes absolutely. But...

...exactly my point!!

I understand your point LM and partially agree with you but in that case you are falling into his (tech) trap and playing his silly game by answering in the same manner.

Note that one can still criticize (highlighting good or bad points) even though not being good oneself or not playing the char. Meaning reaVer still has the right to discuss.

Though it is better being a good player of the character.

And indeed reaVer you are very harsh, when you speak you leave no opening for the others point of view. It seems like you have the absolute truth and often sound arrogant for that.

Come on guys, we aren't kids anymore.

Don't let the drama loop get you.

Keep in mind I'm no OS player and I'm not taking part.

I'm referring to Rebirth, the last one. Oh yeah, I checked neoempire, sorry...

No, those were me, but most of the quirks I had was due to being nervous; simple as that. Next to that, you failed to see why I actually won the matches despite fucking up so much.

Who? And when was this?

I've played in 3/4 RBs and actually 3 tournies since SVB '08, if that's what you're actually referring to. In 3 of those RBs I made it past the groups, 2 tournies didn't event use a group system (one was PNWM in Seattle using double elim, one was a local event where we ran a massive league) and 1 tourney I missed out because of a tie-breaker. lol

You don't have a single clue what you're on about lol

You're saying those fairly recent tourney matches of you from B3C weren't you or something?

You haven't seen jack. And there was no such thing as a bragging contest until you had to run your mouth about my match vids. Next to that, you failed to get out of the pools against guys that barely had any idea of what they were doing... Last time I failed to get out of the pools it was against guys that actually did know what they were doing; and if I'd have won the match against chun li1 back then the pool would've been stuck at a 4 way tie. And that was 2 years ago...

There's people who might actually be interested in what I pointed out as flaws, because perhaps they can then actually learn something instead of just riding Sanma's, 0's, Kaqn's, Inoue's or KZO's dick. The same way that WUT actually responded and we got a bit of discussion about the Jam matchup.

When you get stuff like this posted:

It cracks me up when reaVer critiques people like WUT or TB or even talks about Sanma having crap defense and no tech trap game etc... when everyone has seen how reaVer plays HOS.

Last major tournament I went to (2 weeks ago) I was actually caught in a 3 way tie for 2nd place in the groups. I won 3 matches and lost 2 in the groups. Then 3 of us were tied at 3 points and had to do a 3-way tie-breaker. I beat one guy to put him out but lost to the next guy which meant he was thru.

The last RB before that tourney I came 4th and the RB before that I came 3rd. The RB before that one I came 4th. In fact I placed 4th overall in our last AC RB season out of 16 entrants.

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about (as usual).

What, 2HS CH into whiffed Storm Viper for the epic fail yeah? LOL

No, I saw that actually the first time watching it. If I'd rewind and do actual hyper-analysis I'd get more

Say, last tournament you went to, you didn't even get out of the pools did you?

I wouldn't bother doing that tbh, just watch the match and make up your own mind.

reaVer seems to neglect the simple fact that it's far far easier to hyper-analyze every little bit of a match/tactic when you have a vid you can watch, ponder, rewind, watch, understand, fast forward, pause, ponder etc over and over than it is to actually be playing the match real-time and making those decisions as and when things present themselves.

I mean shit, you've seen reaVer's matches right? LOL

Oh and what Hintalove said. Matches between long standing sparring partners won't give you a clear understanding of each player's game (just their gameplan vs each other when they already know all the bs they can do to each other).

Maybe he was just trying out new things, you know, for fun.

Edit:I haven't watched the match, i'll check it out sometime and see what your talking about.

You still got 5H and GB. Next to that, when you jump up for the throw you guard in case someone actually does attack you; sanma just froze up there. (And we're not talking Slayer.) If you don't even bother trying you could just as well not play the game.

As an example of a prediction mistake, last burst in the last game made by Roz. That one was pretty much coming and sanma didn't even need IAD.H 5S* stuff to finish Roz, CC 2S5H sIAD.P-H SV would've done the job in that case. Where 2S and 5H are harder to burst due to distance.

She received a tensionless damage options in ^C, HOS became a real char. May can't poke you with anything other than dolphins (in Greed Sever-esque fashion), 5HS, 3K, 2S and j.2HS. Anything else gets destroyed by 5K and 2P. May cannot anti-air you without committing herself (read: dolphin). 5S(f) beats/trades with dolphin from further out; a running 6P either CHs or puts you at neutral ground if she escapes (and starts your offense if she guards). May can't pick anything up after a 2S except a Dolphin; it just stops you from running in. J.HS beats her 6P and j.P beats her in the air. If the May you're fighting likes 3K, Fafnir and enjoy your CH or bait and score a 2D CH. If your May has a penchant for 5HS, don't throw lows and stick to 2S CC (not max range, or you'll get CH). J.2HS has always been a problem, but if she starts it from higher up you can either Storm Viper or GunBlaze and win.

May has no options on your wakeup. SV and GB eliminate anything that isn't 5K; 5HS beats beats 5K on wakeup (yes, it's hysterical). 5HS is always a threat, but if you learn to IB her options after it are limited to what you do. Charged 6HS is an overhead, but she doesn't get anything else after it except a dolphin (around 125 or so damage if you eat it).

If you have to guard, watch for the throw, keep in mind that vertical dolphins are ridiculous Greed Severs if you want to poke (they're freaking grounded and overheads ), and try don't poke after her 5HS. Her 5D/5D low is tricky to guard too. Fear the overhead more than the low in that situation and just watch for the fake. A good visual cue is that her spinning slows down slightly before the high hit even comes out (and she does another spin, as well) during the low variation.

Oh, and never Rock It to get in; you're just begging for a 6P to CH your ass.

You can pretend 5HS and 5S (both close and far) will anti-air May, but they won't. In fact, that's the quickest way for May to score that lovely CH j.HS for 230+ Tensionless damage. If May resigns herself to staying in the air and spamming j.HS and j.2HS, the only "reliable" means of getting her to stop is SV and GB, respectively. If you're wanting to get inside, work on alternating between FD braking, running 6Ps, and the occasional running SV to whiff/stuff May's CH fishing. Personally, I prefer to sit back and Charge, making May come to me.

As a tangent, I'm finding out more and more just how awesome 6P is for poking and closing the gap. It beats or whiffs so much air to ground stuff, and stuffs the most absurd ground pokes (example: both May's Horizontal and Vertical Dolphins, FB'd or not). It's a shame the anti-air CH is so fail, otherwise I'd probably crutch on it to anti-air more than 5HS and SV.

Back on topic: FB Dolphin tick throw is dirty. No escape is guaranteed or even remotely safe. An IB'd backdash attempt can get stuffed by things like 2D (it's active for forever), a running 6P (wtf, you're almost dizzy now), or even a running 3K (not safe at all for May, so not seen as often). If you attempt to SV, you open yourself up for an epic Tensionless punish (as always with SV, but May's punish just hurts so much more because it's both free and knocks down, setting up May's dangerous Oki). If you decide to jump then you open yourself up to an air throw for knockdown + oki (May's fast jump and slightly larger air throw range will net her reaction air throws like this all the time if you get even remotely predictable). And just sitting still, of course, opens you up to continued pressure or OHK. All that being said, it would seem 1F jumping is your safest bet.

There is also lots of discussion of Order-Sol vs. May in this post:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=225225&postcount=10

This match-up is a headache for pretty much everyone. Baiken forces you to play patiently and opt for a drastic change in the way you condition your opponent. Your main priority in this match is to bait/avoid Baiken's counters. Some tips on doing that:

1: Keep pressure strings short. One to two hits at the most. Anything more and you're just giving Baiken a free window to Sakura or Ouren. Short and sweet.

2: Pressure with mostly Jump Cancellable moves. Easy enough. 5P, 5K, 5S©, 5S(f), and 5HS are all JCable. Opt for the quicker pokes (5P, 5K) and just watch and react. Using the faster pokes also has another use (explained further down).

3: Keep special use low. In pressure: If it's not BRP, don't use it. Frame advantage means jack in this match. GB is also a viable option. While it's hard to reaction GB in the middle of pressure, you can throw it out there every now and then to beat/whiff every counter except the P one (the anti-air chain). This same principle goes with ending pressure strings in CC; 2D/5HS CC will, more often than not, leave you eating a Sakura or Ouren.

Now that you can deal (relatively) with Baiken's counters, you have to deal with Baiken zoning and pressure. Baiken zoning relies on Tatami as a big ass wall of free combo death, 6P for anti-air, 5S(f) and 2S to simply outrange you, 2D for anti- run in and air (wtf), and j.S for its good hitbox and potential knockdown for Baiken oki (j.S, j.D). If Baiken likes to zone then you're in good shape. Take the time to either back off and Charge to Lvl2/3 (forces Baiken to close the gap) or attempt to get in by FD braking and baiting pokes/Tatami, then moving in via jumping or continuing to run forward. Smart movement will easily let you whiff a poke and start your offense, as many Baikens will not poke much, instead relying on their counters to protect them and get some damage/knockdown.

Baiken pressure is also relatively simple to guard. It's mostly based around Tatami to come in, IAD in, and guard bar building. Personally, I feel that 6P and GB are AWESOME against Baiken pressure. 6P nulls Tatami mats (unless they're right on top of you), whiffs IAD/jump in j.S for a CH, whiffs j.HS unless Baiken is higher up (at which point GB scores a free CH for major damage), and 6P will clash with Baiken's chain pull (preventing the suck-in effect). GB stops all of Baiken's air assault really; making Baiken stay on the ground helps immensely in controlling this match.

If you're actually forced to guard (Knockdown + meaty Tatami oki) then concentrate on escaping. Guard low and watch for 5D (or Youzansen if Baiken has 50% tension to RC). Chain Pull is a free escape or 2D if Baiken does the follow-up; just learn to IB it. Pressuring Tatami also leads to a potential jump out unless Baiken FRCs (which some will do to continue cranking guard bar). With Tatami FRC and chain pull, Baiken can easily get your guard bar to flashing for crazy damage if she breaks your guard. The most important thing is to not panic; a flashing guard bar means that Baiken had to spend alot of tension (via Tatami FRCs) to keep you locked down effectively. Just watch for throw attempts, and don't get suckered into eating a throw bait via 6K or ascending j.HS; that's free HUGE damage for Baiken.

The "secret" to pressuring Baiken and scoring damage is utilizing throws and throw baits. Don't worry too much about high/low mix-up; you'll only get countered, regardless of how much you attempt to condition a Baiken into not doing them (think pre-AC Anjis and their autoguard spam ). Tick throws are excellent in this fight. 5P/5K, 2P/2K, while landing j.HS, 6P are all great ticks which allow you to bait counters at the same time due to their speed and recovery. Once Baiken catches on and starts trying to poke you out of throws or throw break, you have the option of using 6K for the CH into massive damage, or JC into j.HS for CH into massive damage. Also, if you successfully bait counters then punish them effectively; Sakura and Mawarikomi (high autoguard run) can easily be 2D'd and CC'd into combo, chain counter lets you score a free combo, and Ouren is a free escape (but resets the situation in your favor, due to frame disadvantage or potential whiff).

Whoo Anji lost his Autoguards . ^C Anji's anti-pressure options are *really* bad; getting in on him means you can stay in for quite a while. At least, until he tries to beat one of your pokes with his own (a bad idea). The biggest threat in this fight comes from Anji's 5P, 6P, 5S©, 5S(f) 2S, 2D and 5HS. 5P is a quick anti-air that will stop your jump-ins and can beat some of your rushing in. 6P will also stop you from barreling in at Anji; the Ch leads to good damage. 5S is a quick mid-range poke that can gatling to 5HS and lead to Anji's Fujin combos. 5S(f) is an okay anti-air if he throws it from far enough away; it's just too slow otherwise. 2S is a good ranged low that will net Anji a knockdown and stop a few of your pokes. 2D has great range and beats some of HOS' pokes as well. And 5HS still has beastly range which can net him a Fujin combo from almost half screen away.

Your savior(s) from all those nasty pokes are 2P, 2S, 5S(f), 2D, and Fafnir. 2P beats 5P and 2S, but loses to everything else. 2S beats 5P, 6P, and 2D, but can lose to Anji's 2S and his 5S if you try 2S from max range (aka Anji can throw out 5S first). 5S(f) is the weakest, only beating 5HS but good for keeping Anji honest and within your range. 2D beats 5P, 6P if close enough, 5S, and 5HS, but loses to the lows. Fafnir beats the lows and 5HS. A running GunBlaze can also beat 6P on reaction; it's pretty funny. 5HS used to be so bad for HOS in Slash; it stopped everything that wasn't a low with auto-guard, and it could beat 2D if you weren't all the way in on him. Thankfully it was toned down so that it's a mediocre mid-range poke. If the Anji you're fighting is still hooked on 5HS and 6HS as "pokes" then you get to beat it into them that this is Accent Core we're playing, autoguards don't exist anymore.

Anji's pressure was also nerfed extensively in Accent Core. Rin (HS follow-up after Fujin) leaves him at frame disadvantage, butterfly has more recovery leading to an easy excape/punish, and, most importantly, his main autoguards (6K, 5HS, 6HS) were toned down so that poking is actually an option (but poke carefully. The New K guard point leads to nasty damage if you're near the corner). Things to watch for are FB Rin (it's an overhead), FB butterfly (if they pressure butterfly you can pretty much always escape; just watch for it), and his stomps (tricky, but manageable). Stomps leave Anji with frame advantage, so do your best to either throw him out of them (manly, but a little too risky), or IB so that 5K beats anything he could follow up with. Watch for tick throws and instant Orb (overhead), and pretty much just wait out his pressure until you can find a big enough window to escape.

This match used to be annoying in Slash. Bridget could keep running away and zoning you and you just had to chase him down the entire match. Accent Core gave HOS four awesome counters to Bridget's zoning game, making this fight in HOS' favor as long as you can guard his mixup: 5S(f), new 5HS properties, 2D range, and Fafnir. 5S(f) and 5HS stop Bridget from jumping/rolling out of your offense while still allowing you to maintain control; 5S(f) also stuffs Bridget's 2S (which is still a problem when it comes to running/jumping in, but is really the only hassle in this fight). CH 5HS anti-air leads to MASSIVE DAMAGE on Bridget, so learn to love it. 2D beats out 5S(f) from Bridget or leaves you safe and with advantage as you duck under it (2D whiff recovers faster than 5S[f]). All of his other ground normals, excluding 3P, are destroyed by Fafnir, specifically Bridget's 2D (which stops most of your ground rush in). Bridget's 3P clashes with 2S and either clashes or loses to HOS 6P; it also either loses or trades with 5S(f) if done from far enough away, which is alright if you can shake decently (not crazy).

Bridget cannot anti-air you unless he *knows* you're jumping, so keep that in mind as you begin your offense. 2S is the most solid anti-air on Bridget's end against HOS, but, even with new CH properties, the follow-up can usually be teched. Bridget's 6P, which would usually net him his anti-air damage, gets beat by j.HS (still) for CH and slide launch. 6S as an anti-air is laughable and would only hit if you were jumping/IAD'ing back from out of just outside of Bridget's 2D range, which is a mistake in itself since Bridget controls that particular space rather well.

Bridget's mix-up and pressure are pretty much the same as they were in Slash. Being able to roll to a buffered Yo-Yo makes a few strings a little more intimidating and safe if you want to jump/poke, but HOS has GunBlaze to avoid rolling pressure on wake-up and SV to put fear into Bridget and force him to bait (giving you time to escape). Just keep in mind that silly console glitch with FB punching bear being invincible and watch for the high/low from either a jump situation or 6K. Bridget may also try to sneak in a tick throw now that they can RC for damage, so keep an eye out for those setups as well.

All in all: HOS deals much more damage than Bridget, and has way more options to net damage than Bridget can keep up with. Guard mix-up and poke smart and this fight isn't bad at all.