Does anyone have any insight on this matchup?

If anyone who still plays Venom has any advice against Eddie, it would be greatly appreciated, since I have no clue how to fight him.

Information subject to change based on discussion.

some tips, if you see chipp teleport, push slash, if he did K, HS, D (or a close range P) teleport then he'll get hit by Venom's c.S

its not really about staying aerial as it is staying mobile, Venom has some of the best anti-airs in the game...3 of them in fact. Its not really a fun match-up though

... overall its just a match venom has to take very carefully and the more you play it the more you'll learn what you can get away with.

carcass raid can be a good idea, but if any character can get in and punish using it haphazardly, you can bet your ass chipp is near the top of that list

One option is to fake SA and CR, but if you have the time to do that, its probably better to get a dry summon. K ball and P ball all day if you can.

... Venom's strong points are his long range zoning on the ground, and strong anti-air game. He's near the best at getting damage making people jump at HIM. But chipp, being the mobile fucker he is, CAN get in, so again its more about just being mobile. Be careful, but keep moving, and you might force a mistake. Watch out for gamma blade, and if they're spamming low to the grounds alpha blades, just learn when to block and punish...those kinda chipps wind up killing themselves

In general though...characters like chipp, millia, and jam will frustrate you by how few pool balls you get to use when you're not the one rushing down.

Stinger Aim is, somewhat surprisingly (horizontal charge moves against the teleporting speed demon?!), your friend. It can shut down Chipp's IAD approach patterns without wasting ball setups. Note that just holding 4 keeps the fear present in your opponent, often forcing him to try to go for jump/teleport crossups, which are somewhat easier to punish. If well-timed (generally it's safe when you're against a wall or you have a good ball setup to counter his attempted punish), it's good as-is; otherwise, FRCing it works well, so look into FRCed Stinger Aims as a method to open up the space and time you've been trying to get in order to summon.

Final note for all characters: don't underestimate just how much damage Chipp takes. People often try to stick to their most damaging combos no matter what, but on Chipp something simple and reliable is still going to hurt. A Chipp losing on a low timer is a Chipp who needs to go insane with offense to avoid losing to a Time Out, and if your friend is already ridiculously aggressive that makes him even more likely to slip up.

ORIGINAL POST: I don't see this thread anywhere in matchups, so...

Good god make the bad man slow down. I'll admit I'm fairly new to the game, but I really never have THIS much trouble, even against the better players around here. My friend's Chipp just rapes my shit hard, I can't touch him, can't summon balls, nothing. Halp.

Some things regarding Jam match-up:

- Her 6P will beat your 5S(f) at anything shy of max range (even when you hit the button first). FACT. Use with caution.

- Your 2S will beat all of her ground normals AFAIK (maybe not 2P depending on spacing, but you shouldn't mash 2S that close anyway), or at worst trade with shit like her 5K and just reset positioning. 2S also avoids most IAD shit if your spacing is decent since Venom is relatively short while crouching, and it recovers fast enough that she can't IAD firekick you either. You have enough time to block, and if you IB it you can potentially punish (timing is hella tight though) or at least get your offense going. Biggest threat is random FB puffballs, I guess

- 2HS >>>>> IAD firekick (not sure about the goofy cross-up one). AA CH 2HS, K ball, dash in 6P, 6HS, DC. If it's at the start of the round it's pretty easy to react to, and you can charge a CR for more silly shit. Just make sure you don't do it too early, since the move hits deceptively late.

Venom actually has some good shit against her, but she just does so much more damage than you can for no good reason. Even when you do score knockdowns, she has parries and a DP that make it kinda hard to get some decent oki going without a lightning ball. Having to be paranoid of random FB puffballs once she gets bar is pretty lame too =/

I actually find Venom's pokes beating Jam's pokes 65% of the time. (5s and 2s) In this matchup I'm patient and am mostly defensive and run-awayish , doing a lot of "scouting" with run-in-FD cancel (or just walk a bit in - stop). I try to avoid fighting her in air , although I don't completely disregard this scenario. A ball helps.

If she pressures you with (whatever normals)-run in -(whatever normals. I don't remember what's her normal string) I try to snuff it with a 2k.

Extracted from original matchup thread, please add more!

Potemkin... is big, strong, and big.

Defense:

toss some balls around to keep him away.. be sure to use 1ball + 5S a lot to counter slide head. i normally ib his jumping normals but i think FD is safe and better. when tossing balls you should keep an eye on his reflect. use 5S to keep em from reflecting the darn balls.. and if you've noticed it already N-O always leave an opening for 5S when the balls are scattered. about that, its much stylish to see balls scattered neatly j/k. the balls used to scatter like that are *k>S , k>P, s>P,*. I prefer using 2balls a lot bec its a lot easier to summon compared to a 3 ball. Recommended 3ball setups *h>k>P, k>s>P*

Pressure:

Bec of potemkin's high defense, they are not afraid for risk and reward. that is why we need to keep the pressure going to increase their bar. this is the main pressure string N-O use bec its safe and easy to do, 2s>ball>2s>ball>2s>stinger aim S frc>pressure. Or if you want to use plain MS there should be balls around to hit pot. i recommend using FB Madstruggle even though you haven't conditioned them with 2K yet since its safe and they're on guard after they block it. be patient and make them block all day until they get pissed and makes a mistake. Try to use FB MS a lot on fuzzy guard bec i think pot's 6P can counter FB MS(can someone confirm this one?)

Offensive Tactics:

Condition them with a pressure open to pot buster ex (2k>5S(2hits)> carcass raid. After they've seen this move once or twice they'll try to buster you, so switch carcass raid to FB MS. I recommend using different gatling for FB MS to confuse them

This is pretty old hat but if you want to use 5S in the pochop match, place a ball out in front of you. As long as you have a ball out that will be hit by the 5S you are safe as that will beat out just about anything potemp can do. Just watch for slidehead when setting up the ball.

Super jumping back and summoning balls mid air is your friend, PROVIDED that po doesn't have 50% for HPB. Get in the air, summon a ball or two, and then call them back to the ground with a ground summon. Again, just use your brain and make sure you aren't setting yourself up as slidehead bait.

Slash DHM is suprisingly effective against potemp at match starting range. If he swings, it will beat most of his options. If he hammerfall breaks however, its probably your ass, this is a useful tool for a potemp who likes to spam back megafists.

Your goal is simply to get potemp into the corner. With proper use of ball pressure and your best mixups (Whore FB MS mixups in the corner), you can put potemkin on the ropes.

This is a fight about patience. Lot's and lots of it. If you pick your spots to summon balls properly, and don't blindly rush you will have a chance to get some pressure on potemkin. When you do, don't waste it.

- Try to utilize TK Ball Sesei to counter Slidehead.

SLAYER

The matchup is, supposedly, in Slayer's favor. After watching tons of videos and playing the matchup a lot, I'd have to say that it's closer to even (but still slightly in Slayer's favor, just because one mistake by you is pretty bad). I'll go ahead and bullet point things you should take note of:

- To win this matchup, you must maximize both modes of VE (zoning and pressure) and make as few mistakes as possible. Two mistakes coupled with improper blocking spells an easy death against SL. Understand that VE has all of the tools to keep him out, but you have to be constantly mindful of his meter and spacing - a BBU or CH DoT will destroy you.

- 5S(f) and 2S are tools to keep Slayer from constantly advancing. A Slash coupled with a ball in front of it will work wonders. Note that 5S can be punished by SL's 6P and 2S can be punished by SL's 2HS.

- 2D can be used to stop close Dandy Steps. The 2D will usually hit Slayer before his follow-up occurs. I wouldn't recommend 2Ding against K-Dandy, since the chances of you hitting the Dandy before the followup are slim. However, if they do K-Dandy and use Pilebunker or Crosswise instead of the S followup, block and punish. S follow can still be punished with 2D from any range.

- j.HS is a tricky one to deal with. If you time your anti-airs early enough, they'll work...but most of the time you'll get straight beat out. 6P and 6HS are your main options, however, when in doubt: block. Keep your eyes peeled for 6P and 5S© opportunities because SL will definitely be airborne after you annoy him enough with ball zoning.

- A way to deal with jump-happy SLs is to use the (somewhat impractical) FB CR -> 66 -> K-ball. This creates a ball at the perfect spot to stop jump-ins. Continue zoning with lower balls (such as P and S).

- Staying in the air is fairly unsafe. His anti-air package is ridiculous: 5P, 2S, 6HS, 6P, Dandy K, and BDC j.P makes sure he has almost every angle covered.

- Try to use formations that cover both high and low. Examples: (HS, K), (K, P), (K, S -> 2P). Once he's out he should have a pretty difficult time getting in.

- SL can escape CR pressure by back dashing / forward dashing.

- Dubious Curve can be punished by Dandy Step and BBU.

- Beware of Mappa Punch, that shit will go full screen every time. With this in mind, never freely ball summon.

- Once again, I need to stress the importance of watching his meter. If you get too careless, he will punish you to hell with either BBU or DoT.

When I play this match-up, I just kinda zone him with projectiles until I can get some kind of momentum going and start some real pressure. Slayer's movement is kinda limited since he can't run, so there's not a ton he can do about the basic K ball->P ball, 5P shit until he has some bar. Otherwise he has to take to the air eventually, and your 6P will beat j.HS as long as the angle is decent. If not, run back under him and hit the ball he jumped over back at him, then continue zoning. Once you get your offense going, it seems like BDC sucks now for getting out of Venom's shit IMO. You almost get to fight him like a normal character

Problem with this fight is that it sucks dick when he's on top of you because CH anything means you're gonna get raped (should be tons of motivation to not hit buttons much), and if he has bar BBU will make things gay even if you're on the offensive. Also, I think DoT can fullscreen punish shit like ball summons if the Slayer is on top of his game o_O AKA "NOW THAT'S WHAT I LIKE TO CALL BIG DAMAGE".

That's it for now, will add more / organize later.

5.5-4.5 - In Venom's favor.

Do's and Dont's:

Dont's:

1. Try to avoid risky moves that risks you of getting storm viper(6H,5S, Dubious Curve, or if you're in range of SV, observe). Once Order-Sol get an okizeme he'll be in command.

2. Avoid getting KD

Do's:

1.Know thy Order-Sols jump max range. You'll be able to zone order-sol out properly if you know how far he can jump.

2.Pressure him without risking of Storm Viper hit.*2s,2s,2s pressure*

3.Bait their Storm Viper and punish. If they keep on SVing all day, FD break is a good use here.

4.If you're originally an offensive venom I'm not sure how you handle things but its best to be defensive against OS.

5.2D is also good in this match up but its kinda 50/50. if you get him its good. if he gets you, you're dead.

Simple Gameplan:

Okizeme -> Pressure

Okizeme -> Zone corner push -> Pressure

Okizeme -> Crossup/Mixup (i prefer crossup to avoid getting SV)

Zone -> balls

Top 10 Moves:

Anti-close up-

jH - beats most of OS shit

stinger aim H - i find stinger aim H quite useful in this match up(long range) as a faster alternative to 2S/5S. also it zones order-sols ground, thus they'll have to jump a lot and risk of getting 6P'd

2S - (risk of getting Sv, gunblaze) good pressure string. avoid this move in close range im tellin ya (SV can't hit you in max range or near to max range. youll get hit if you're too close though)(risk to Sv, gunblaze)

5S - pins order-sol every time he attempts to jump, thus you gain a free ball summon yay. its safer this i think, or you can just add more stuff on how to summon safer.(risk of getting Sv, gunblaze)

carcass raid S - good for pressure/zoning, but i don't usually use this move. when i have the chance, i always use ball seisei. this way, even if order-sol gets in, he'll eat both 6p and the ball. (remember ball = +defense)

ball seisei - order-sol is scared of balls, period.

Anti-Air-

6P - best anti-air dammit

DHM S - good anti-ground and anti-air. (beats order sol jump, bandit revolver,rock it)

5H/2H - counter-hit on air, gives you a free combo okizeme. i find this setup good, but you have to know the max distance of order-sol's jump first. and when the distance is right, you'll be able to zone him perfectly.

carcass raid H - corner pressure. zoning midscreen?? (risk of getting hit by force break)

Moves that can be backdashd:

bandit revolver

gunblaze(mid, corner)

jH(yes, this is why we see japanese order-sols doing jp,jp,jp,jp)

Strategy:

Close range:

Since we are dealing with this fast fucker, its best to be defensive and wait until you see an opening then punish. Also its not good to use slow moves near order-sol unless its guaranteed to hit. Remember that one okizeme from order-sol can cost you half of your lifebar so be careful to whiff moves. Mashing 6P and 2S alternately won't help you at all. One wrong guess and its combo frenzy for Order-Sol. Also, note that OS's 2D goes thru 2S,5S,6P and its faster than our own 2D. If 2D CH or connects, its combo time for OS. And as for the ball strategy, i leave it up to you.

Also try to whiff OS's SV bec it'll be annoying later on if they keep on spam SV. And when they noticed that SV always getting punished theyll be scared to use it again unless you throw out a slow move like 6H/dubious curve. I think SV wont hit an FRCD dubious curve. hmm depends on the timing i guess

Zoning

Order-sol fight can be frustrating since he's fast so we have to retaliate a lot and evade his close up attempts. We need to 5P a ball either pball or sball to stop order-sol from running or getting close to you(i think he runs faster than chipp). Or you can just wait and surround your ground and air with balls(K,S and H,K) to scare em.

Corner Pressure

In order to win we need a solid corner pressure (2s, ball seisei S, 2s, ball seisei S). But i usually just summon p ball and punch it all day(corner) when OS is on low health. You can also try N-O's style of whiffing SV(n-o intentionally whiffs the 6H close to order-sol)

vs BAIKEN

Her weakness

Low damage output, lots of prorated moves and her worst weakness that we can't seem to abuse is her low defense.

Her strength

iad, pressure, and her ability to escape pressure.

Moves you should IB/SB

iad jH

tatami

kabari sb*

Tsurane Sanzu Watashi ib the 1st and 2nd hit and sb last hit*

Moves you should FD

Don't forget to FD lvl3-5 and vacuum effects moves. if your baiken always use yousanzen on you, you should FD a lot to get her yousanzen out of range

kabari*razor something*

j.H

2D

H

S

6H

Prorated moves

2D - 70%

throw & air throw - 80%

2p/2k - 80%

youshijin - 70%

sakura - 85%

Counters

Youshijin= air combo on CH but can be punished if not CH. mad struggle always beats this move.

Sakura= upper body invincibility. if it hits you can mash out of it if they don't frc/

Ouren= her most annoying escape move. on CH leads to a combo KD/

Mawarikomi= she runs at your back

Recommended Pokes

2k (best poke in this match)

2D (2nd best)

jD

2s

5s

Recommended Moves

mad struggle

teleport

carcass raid or fb

double head morbid = damage

Damaging Combo's

dubious curve loop (best damaging combo, but you needs to be in corner)

6p>6H> 3-ball seisei

6p>6h>cr> double head morbid fb

6p>6h>cr combo to corner dubious curve

*Combo's i always do*

2k>2d> double head morbid S

2K>2d> ball seisei

6P CH> cS> jS> jP> jS> JC> jS> jH> jD

6P CH> 6H> double head morbid H

6P CH> 6H> 3-ball seisei

ch madstruggle> 2k> 5S> 2S> 5H> dubious curve> ball seisei

2k>2d(2hits) CH>stinger aim h frc> 6p>6h>double head morbid FB*if health is below 60% or guard bar is filled. i simply use a lot of FRC if guard bar is 75%. die baiken!! die!!*

throw> 6p>6h>ball seisei

corner throw> 6p>6h>cr>summon hb>6p>6h> summon Sb>5S> dubious curve

dubious curve loop for the finish

Recommended Ball Formation

K>S>P - prevents all counters except mawarakami

H>K - prevents all counters except mawarakami

K>P- prevents youshijin counter

S>P teleport dash* try this at hoome

Toorikuu da. defense

Round one lets rock! At the start of the round you could use 5s/2s/2d but you'll get countered anyways lol. When getting out of pressure you can 2D> teleport out of it, but i prefer to just FD all of her stuff until she's pushed back enough to poke> teleport.

The problem here is that she can immediately reach you if you try to summon. So the trick is to bait her to iad and then 6P her ass. Not only that you've damage her (a little) but you'll be free to summon 3 balls :D From this moment on, baiken will have 2nd thoughts to iad you and you can sometimes get a free summon if she's too scared T_T

Corner defense

Her pressure game in the corner is pretty tight, but she only has a few mixup moves. But the one you should watch out for is TK yousanzen, with 50% tension they can combo off it. Use FD to push em out the yousanzen's range.

Conserve tension for DAA or for FD to avoid her corner pressure.

Offense

RAWR! Although we can't pressure baiken, we have our own way to put pressure on her.

Your best counter to her counter is mad struggle. She won't be able to use a counter until the last hit of MS. Mad struggle should be blocked high, she won't be able to input *12 until the last hit. And if they still tried to counter till the last hit with either sakura/yoshijin then punish em.

Remember to dash break whenever a ball hits. In this way, you can always punish her standing counters. 2K is your safest poke bec of its fast recovery and small active frames. low moves also prevents baikens running autoguard. 2D to pass thru counter sakura, but you could get CH if baiken used yoshijin.

Tricky gatlings

5k > tk mad struggle

5k > 2D

5S > 2D

5S > teleport

2D > teleport

5p > throw

Ball Seisei tricks, letz rock

o-k

o-h

Okizeme H>K

1. 2p Hb> back jH Kb - this setup prevents baiken's two counters, sakura/yoshijin and theres a chance to grab her ouran counter.

2. j.k Kb> *either you do a crossup or mad struggle. teleport is possible but i dont recommend*

-------o-k

--o-p

----------o-s

K>S>P

1. 5p all the balls - i think this could prevent all of her counters except mawarikomi. after 5ping the balls you should close in to her so you can punish her mawarikomi if ever she does it. or you can do anything to piss her off, since her counters are ineffective at this moment.

--o-p

----------o-s

Okizeme S>P

1. 5P Pb ASAP > teleport ad crossup> *mad struggle/throw/jS* - torikuu da! this move is pretty annoying to defensive type baikens, bec they always wait for you to counter. this also messes up their their execution for counter.

oki>3 ball seisei> throw

1. dash feint attack> throw

uhh please add anything i missed or anything you like..

anyone know a good 6p>6H combo that lets you hit a ball as you combo?