bjholmes2 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Iron Tager Height: 240 cm Weight: 550 kg Blood Type: Natural Oil Origins: Unknown (doesn't remember) Birthday: November 27 (date of creation) Hobby: Bottle-ships Likes: Kokonoe (his creator) Dislikes: Salt Water Originally the leader of a battle unit which revolved around physical combat, Tager was forced to withdraw from the front lines after sustaining a mortal wound in the Ikaruga Civil War. He was brought back from the brink of death at the hands of the scientist "Kokonoe" and revived as a cyborg, and is currently assigned to a combat unit under the direct control of Kokonoe. He seems to be pursuing Ragna, though his goals are entirely unclear. Guide Information This guide represents the combined efforts of all contributors to the Tager board; special thanks to kensk, Mike Z, Gwyrgyn Blood, and the folks at Zetaboards! Feel free to inform me of changes that need to be made! Thank you! Table of Contents Move List at a GlanceNotationGameplay SpecificsNormal Move OverviewDrive OverviewSpecial Move OverviewDistortion Drive OverviewMove PropertiesCombosMatchup DataTips and TricksMisc. NotesTo Do Section Move List at a Glance Special Attacks Gigantic Tager Driver (360+ or ) Atomic Collider (+) Sledge Hammer (+ or ) Additional Attack (+) Spark Bolt (+) Voltic Charge (+) Distortion Drives Magna-Tech Wheel (+) Terra Brake (+) Genesic Emerald Tager Buster (720+) Astral Heat King of Tager (hold ++, tap repeatedly) Notation A 2B 6C xx Special Move(Button Used, Notes), D - Example combo - A, B, C, and D are used to represent those respective buttons. - The numbers represent joystick postions in the following manner: 7 8 9 4 5 6 1 2 3 With 2 being down, 5 being neutral, etc. - The "->" symbols indicate gatlings, or cancels between two normals. - The "xx" indicates a cancel that doesn't involve two normals, i.e. from a normal to a special. - The commas indicates a link, or two full actions that combo without cancelling. Some of Tager's moves have received nicknames. These are: Gigantic Tager Driver: 360, Tager Buster Atomic Collider: Heat, Collider Sledge Hammer: Sledge Additional Attack: Follow-Up Spark Bolt: Shot, Tager Shot Voltic Charge: Charge Magna-Tech Wheel: Spinny-super Terra Brake: Follow-Up (again) Genesic Emerald Tager Buster: 720 King of Tager: AH, Astral Gameplay Specifics Pros: Easy character to learnShort and damaging combosHas the highest health in the game (13000)Huge damage outputGreat close-ranged combatStrengthened greatly against magnetized opponentsHas a slew of difficult to escape mindgames Cons: Has difficulty dealing with "zoning" tacticsAll grabs can be teched by opponents in hit- or block-stunHighly immobileRequires access to Spark Bolt for several tacticsTerrible matchups, especially against Nu and ArakuneHorrible Astral Heat The biggest step to learning Iron Tager is how to get close enough to the opponent to knock them down or magnetize them. Against projectiles, you can use Sledge Hammer to plow through them, Voltic Charge to avoid them, or Spark Bolt to override the projectile and nail the opponent with a counter hit combo. Make good use of Tager's backdash, as it can avoid most attacks and allow you to counter with a Tager Driver or 720. Tager's jump is also an invaluable tool, as it allows you to avoid the opponent's attacks while getting closer and gives you access to powerful moves, such as j.2C. Also, when paired with j.C, it allows you to move closer to the opponent. Another big chunk of Tager's game lies in knowing when to throw and when not to. If you can't nail the opponent with a combo, catch moves during recovery frames or, if you can predict them, during startup. Also, adding tick throws to your mindgames will greatly increase your effectiveness with Tager. If you have time to start a combo, however, that will almost always be the better option. In order to get the most out of your command throws, you need to be able to consistently pull them off. A popular trick is to jump, input the required motion (usually 720), and press the necessary button to execute the throw upon landing. However, this technique is not very efficient and is very dated; most advanced players will see right through it. How do you combat this? Well, with 720s, about all you can do is buffer the motions, usually in either ticks or on wakeup. However, it is possible to perform a standing 360 motion. To do this, you must very quickly input a 270 degree motion (not a full circle, as the name would have you believe) and press the appropriate button for your throw. If done quickly enough, the move will execute before the jump can come out. This allows you to punish moves you wouldn't be able to otherwise. Learning to utilize magnetism is a vital tool. Whenever you strike the opponent, hit or blocked, with any of Tager's D attacks, they will be magnetized for a short period of time. During this time frame, certain attacks are modified to "suck in" the opponent. This removes some of the need of getting in by bringing the opponent to you. Frame Data Normal Move Overview A: Your average mid-height poke. One of Tager's faster moves, so use mainly to slow rushdowns or stuff fast moves. Be aware, however, that this move will whiff characters that are low to the ground. Opens up several combo opportunities on counter-hit. 2A: Another basic poke. In some matchups, this functions as Tager's main anti-air. Opens up several combo opportunities on counter-hit. 6A: A farily fast move that pulls the opponent in on hit or block. This move is also affected by magnetism, and negates mid-hitting projectiles, making it a possible way to get in, with practice. Useful for extending combos. j.A: A fast, horizontal aerial attack. B: A relatively fast poke. It can OTG opponents after 360s, and functions as a very valuable 720 buffer 2B: A low-hitting move. Useful for mixups and its chain into 2C. Another useful 720 buffer, although it is slightly more difficult than 5B. 6B: A slow overhead. Use occasionally in mixups. Opens up several combo opportunities, and can endlessly chain into itself. j.B: A very useful aerial. Hits airborne and grounded opponents. Useful for its crossup and combo-starting properties. C: A very useful move. Deals good damage and opens up several combo opportunities. 2C: A situational anti-air. Use occasionally, but only if you know it will hit. 3C: A low-hitting poke. Knocks the opponent down. 6C: A long-ranged overhead. Vital for OTG combos. j.C A horizontal aerial. Moves Tager forward a little bit. j.2C A very useful aerial. Upon execution, Tager drops to the ground with a full-body hitbox. When used immediately prior to landing, it becomes active immediately. Opens up some good combos. Drive Overview Tager's Drive, Voltic Battler, involves magnetism. All D moves magnetize the opponent on hit or block and suck in opponents who are already magnetized. D: A very large, slow poke. Useful in combos and blockstrings, and allows for wall-bounce combos on counter-hit. Useful on occasion as a long-ranged anti-ar on a magnetized opponent. 2D: A slow move that moves Tager forward a fairly large distance. Not very useful as a stand-alone poke, but functions well as a 720 tick. It is also handy for OTG hits and pessuring magnetized opponents. j.D: An aerial with a fairly large hit-box. Useful in air to air situations. When used after the peak of Tager's jump, it will be cut short by his landing, pulling magnetized opponents closer and allowing for a 720. Special Move Overview Gigantic Tager Driver (360A/B): A heavily damaging command grab. The A version doesn't do as much damage as the B one, and it isn't quite as fast, but it has a lot of range and the ability to "suck in" magnetized opponents if the button is held for a much longer period of time than the B version. It is also invincible from frames 3-11. The B version, on the other hand, does significantly more damage, comes out faster, and can be combo'd from on most characters, at the expense of the range and invincibility of the A version. Use this move if you instant block or backdash in the middle of a tight pressure string, but otherwise, try to nail the opponent with a combo. Atomic Collider (623C): An anti-air grab. It works very well on anticipated jumps, but done too late and it will probably get stuffed. However, this move is extremely useful in combos. When the opponent is airborne and magnetized, this move will "suck" them in for as long as C is held, although the grab will not activate until the button is released. This move is used in a lot of Tager's tech traps as well. Sledge Hammer (236A/B): A useful attack that nullifies projectiles and moves Tager forward. The A version comes out faster, but does not cover much distance. The B version, while it has longer startup, covers a large amount of space and staggers the opponent on hit, leaving them open to a combo. Additional Attack (236A After Sledge Hammer): An overhead attack. Not very useful outside of combos, as it is unsafe on block, although it can catch some opponents off guard. Spark Bolt (41236D): A fast-moving projectile that consumes a full energy guage. This move can plow through other projectiles and cause wall-bounce on hit. Because it is a D attack, it will magnetize the opponent on hit or block. Useful for long-distance punishes and in combos. Try not to be too predictable with this. Voltic Charge (421B): A move that charges the energy guage for as long as the button is held. When the button is released, an additional chunck will be added to the meter. This move has upper-body invincibility and will automatically guard against all projectiles. As a result, this move makes for an effective buffer into the 720, especially against bursts and aerials. Distortion Drive Overview Magna-Tech Wheel (236236B): A useful super move that has 50 frames of auto-guard. When used against a magnetized opponent, Tager will gravitate towards them, in violation of the laws of physics. Useful in combos and as a counter to jump-ins. On block, it should be RCed and followed-up with pressure or mind games. Terra Brake (236236B After Magna-Tech Wheel): In most situations, this follow-up is very useful, as it adds extra non-burstable damage and opens up further combo opportunities. Genesic Emerald Tager Buster (720C): A highly damaging super grab, and the super you will probably be using most often. Invincible on startup, and can be held to "suck in" magnetized magnetized opponents, although it will not be invincible during this time. Move Properties Legend: 6C: sp, j; D, 2D - "sp" represents the ability to special-cancel - "j" represents the ability to jump-cancel - Everything following the semicolon represents gatlings A: sp, j; A, 2A, 6A, B, 2B, 6B, C, 2C, 6C, 3C, D, 2D 2A: sp, j; 2B, 2C, 3C, D, 2D 6A: sp, j; 6B, C, 2C, 6C, D, 2D j.A: j.B, j.C B: sp; 6A, 6B, C, 2C, 6C, 3C, D, 2D 2B: sp; B, 2C, 3C, 2D 6B: sp; 2C, 6C, D j.B: (None) C: sp; 6A, 6B, 6C, 3C, D, 2D 2C: sp; D, 2D 6C: sp, j; D, 2D 3C: (None) j.C: (None) j.2C: (None) D: sp 2D: (None) j.D: (None) Combos Bread and Butter Combos Throw xx Collider, Step Forward, 6C -> 5D - Basic combo, does not work on Carl or Taokaka without magnetism. Throw xx Atomic Collider, 2D - Variation of the above for use on Carl and Taokaka. Throw xx B Sledge, 2B -> 2C xx Collider Collider(AA), Step Forward, 6C -> 5D - Does not work on Carl or Taokaka without magnetism. Collider(AA), 2D - Variation of the above for use on Carl and Taokaka. Sledge(CH), 6A -> 2C xx Collider, Step Forward, 6C ->5D Sledge(CH), 6A -> 2C xx Collider, 2D - Variation of the above for use on Carl and Taokaka. A(xN) -> B xx Shot, 5C -> 6A -> 2C xx Collider [Followups] C/2C xx Collider, Step Forward, 6C -> D - When a combo has the letter "F" in it and has 3 or less hits, it means follow up with this. 6A -> 2C xx Collider - When a combo has the letter "F" in it and has 4 or more hits, it means follow up with this. 2C -> D - An alternate follow-up for use in 4 or more hit combos; allows you to gain more magnetism. [A Combos] A -> 2A -> 2B -> 3C A(xN) -> B xx Shot, F 2A -> 2B -> 2C xx Collider, 6C -> D 6A -> 2C xx Collider, 6C -> D [Normal Combos] A(x1-3) -> B xx Shot, F A -> C xx Sledge(A) - Only works on crouching opponents. 2A(CH) -> C xx Shot, F 2A -> C -> 6A xx Sledge(A), 2A -> C -> 6A xx Sledge(A), A -> B xx Shot, F - Only works on crouching opponents. 2C(CH) -> C xx Collider, 2D 2C(CH) xx Charge, j.D, land, F j.2C(CH) -> 2B -> 2C xx Collider, 2D, 2D [3C Combos] 3C, 5B xx Volt Spark, F - Works if you are fairly close. Hard to time but it only needs a Volt Spark. 3C RC, 6C xx Collider, 6C -> D - Reliable but weak. 3C RC, Sledge(B), 2B -> 2C xx Collider, Volt Spark, 2C xx Collider - Strong and reliable but needs Volt and Meter. (6A ->) 3C RC, 6A -> 2C xx Collider, Volt Spark, 2C xx Collider - Very strong but somewhat funky. Might not work on some characters or at distances without magnetism. [Throw Combos] Throw, Collider, 2D - Easy to hit Taokaka with. Throw, Collider, Walk Forward, 6C -> D - D will not hit Carl, and will sometimes miss Taokaka and Arakune. Throw, Sledge(B), 2B -> 2C xx Collider - Easy combo, works on everyone. Throw, Sledge(B), C -> 6B xx Collider, F - Works on everyone but Carl, Arakune, and Hakumen. Throw, Sledge(B), C xx Sledge(A) xx Additional Attack - Nets you 25% additional meter. Throw, Sledge(B), C xx Sledge(A), 2B 2C xx Collider - For Front Throw, delay 5C very late to make the 2B connect. Won't hit Carl, or Arakune on front throw(?). Throw, Sledge(B), C xx Sledge(A) xx Additional Attack, Rapid Cancel, Sledge(B), 2C xx Collider - If you begin the combo with 25% meter, you will have sufficient meter to perform the RC. Throw, Sledge(B), 2C xx Collider, Volt Spark, 2C xx Collider - Strong damage and Magnetism, only needs a Volt Spark. Throw, Sledge(B), 5C 6B xx Collider, Volt Spark, 2C xx Collider - Exact same as above but slightly stronger. Doesn't work on Carl, Hakumen, Arakune. Throw, Sledge(B), C xx Sledge(A), 2B 2C xx Collider, Volt Spark, Collider - Works on a few characters (Hakumen, Tager, ?). Very long, so you can take extra time to build up Volt Meter. [Gigantic Tager Driver Combos] 360(A), 2B xx Shot, F - Only works on Tager. 360(A), 3C, Rapid Cancel, Shot, F - Works on Bang, Hakumen, Jin, Ragna, and Taokaka. Make sure to buffer the RC into the Shot motion (3C 41236ABC~D) so the Shot will come out quickly enough. 360(B), Sledge(A) xx Additional Attack 360(B), 2B xx Shot, F - Works on Bang, Litchi, Noel, Ragna, Tager, and Taokaka. 360(B), 3C(RC), Shot, F - Works on Carl, Hakumen, and Jin. Make sure to buffer the RC into the Shot motion (3C 41236ABC~D) so the Shot will come out quickly enough. 360(A), 5C -> 5D - Rachel only. Big damage, free magnetism! 360(A/B), 5C xx Volt Spark, F - Rachel only. 360(B), 5C -> 6A - Rachel only. Use as a tech trap setup. [sledge Hammer Combos] CH Sledge(A/B), 6A 2C xx Collider, F Sledge(B), 2B -> 2C -> D xx Shot, C -> 6A -> 2C xx Collider - Works only on magnetized opponents who's names aren't Carl Matchup Data vs. Ragna: 4.0 vs. Jin: 3.5 vs. Noel: 4.0 vs. Taokaka: 4.0 vs. Rachael: 3.0 vs. Arakune: 2.5 vs. Litchi: 4.0 vs. Bang: 4.5 vs. Carl: 2.0 vs. Hakumen: 5.5 vs. v-13 (Nu): 3.0 vs. Iron Tager: 5.0 Tips and Tricks Buffering Circular Motions (360s and 720s) Because performing a full 360 of 720 degree motion requires the player to press in the upwards direction, a jump will be performed at some time during the motion, thereby causing the command to fail. Because of this, it is important for a Tager player to know how to buffer their command throws. This means that the motion for the throw is inputted during another action (such as a jump, block, or attack) so that you can execute the throw without jumping. As far as 720 degree motions go, this is about all that you will be able to do. In this case, useful buffers include 5B, 2B, Sledge, 2D, backdashes, guards, hitstun(!), and even the screen freeze from the opponent's supers. Jumps are also pretty useful, but that trick is old, and is rather predictable. Do note that it actually is possible to perform an unbuffered 720, but this method is rather unreliable due to the difficulty in performance. For 360 degree motions, however, you have another powerful tool at your disposal. The although listed as needing a full circle, the stick only needs to be move 270 degrees for the input to be successful. For example, you could input the motion 6321478A and have a Tager Buster come out. This technique is very useful because it allows the throw to come out before the jump registers, allowing you to perform a Tager Buster without the need to buffer. For more information on buffering circular motions, click here. Throw Resets Before learning how to perform a reset, it is important to understand what a reset is. In this case, it refers to a method of offense that catches opponents with grabs by baiting and punishing their recoveries. It is called a "reset" because it sets the combo counter back to zero. For example, if you hit the opponent with [Collider, 6C, superjump], you can hit them with an airthrow if they tech towards you. Because use of resets often involves predicting the opponent's behavior, it is important to observe their teching habits and use an appropriate reset to counter them. For more information on throw resets, click here. Tick Throwing Tick throwing is landing a grab on the opponent immediately after they come out of hit- or block-stun. Because it can hit on the first frame of their recovery, it can be difficult to avoid, especially for opponents who do not have invincible start-up moves to use as a reversal. For example, when the opponent blocks the B Sledge Hammer, you can wait a moment and use a 720 to catch them as soon as they return to a normal state. Pressure Pressure is, in essence, a string of attacks that lock down the opponent on block and lead to a combo on hit, leaving little opporunity for the opponent to escape or counter-attack. Because Tager's moves are rather slow, his mixups aren't as strong as, say, Bang's, but his moves leave the opponent stuck in blockstun for quite some time, and his Drives magnetize on block. To get the most out of your pressure, it usually helps to throw out a few quick moves and follow-up with either a drive, sledge, or a well-timed throw. Here is a very basic example: (A/2A x n, B/2B, C/6A/6B, D xx Sledge(A)/360(A)/720(Hold)) x n Remember to throw things in, or remove them, to keep your pressure fresh and unpredictable, and be sure to always be able to start a combo off of any random hit. To practice, I recommend using the "Random" blocking function in Training Mode. Misc. Notes Tager's Magna-Tech super seems to be a play on the word "magnetic".Tager's theme, MOTOR HEAD, is likely named after the rock band of the same name.Tager is about 7'10" and weighs almost 1,213 pounds.Tager is voiced by Kenji Nomura in Japanese and Jamieson Price in English.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 It's good so far, main issue is a need for organization. Frame Data should probably just be linked to since it's a big image, takes up a lot of space, and it's not nearly as important as other stuff is. Likewise the gigantic image of his move list can probably be removed since it's HUGE and you list all of his moves below anyway. You could also instead replace it with a text version like: Atomic Collider
Maho Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Command grabs are now techable except on counter hit. Commands grabs aren't techable unless comboed into or done in the blockstun.
bjholmes2 Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 Thank you! Fix'd. Feel free to throw those corrections/suggestions out there; not only is this my first large-scale post, but I haven't played the game yet, soooooo...
g0th1k4 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 For the 720, there is only startup invincibility...if you hold it, you are completely vulnerable to any attack, it's not like 360A where when you hold you are still invulnerable.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Mike Z in the last thread confirmed that you don't get any extra invincibility on 360+A if you hold it. However you are right about the 720C, the invincibility is long enough that you can catch someone if you don't hold the button at all, but if you hold it you can be hit.
bjholmes2 Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 Oops, sorry 'bout that; no extended invinvibility on our super. It has been fixed. Thanks, g0th1k4.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 I have a bunch of other stupid combos but I need to wait till I have the game to make sure I have them correct. In the mean time, let me help reorganize yours to make it a little easier to follow. So what's with the notation here: 2A, C, 6A xx Sledge Hammer(A) -> 2A, Does , mean 'gattling cancel', xx is special cancel, and -> means 'link' ? You can shorthand that a lot more but I dunno what people think is more easy to read. Normally my notation is nothing for a gattling or special cancel, and , is a link. Like this: 2A C 6A Sledge Hammer(A), 2A ... etc It's much more compact but also might be harder to read. Might also be a good idea to just abbreviate Sledge Hammer as Sledge since it's pretty obvious what it means.
bjholmes2 Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 Thanks! Yeah, the combos are a lot easier to read now. EDIT: Oh yeah, here's my notation. I'll add it into the Guide if you think it is necessary. A, B, C xx Special Move -> D The commas represent gatlings, the "xx" represents cancels, and the "->" represents a link.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 A gattling really is the same thing as a cancel, it's just that one goes into a special and one goes into another normal. I'm probably just biased against the old 'xx' style notation though so maybe just ignore me.
bjholmes2 Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 I don't know, I'm just pretty OCD with my combo writeups.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Some more todo things. Shrink the top Tager image vertically a lot. Turn it into a 'banner' of his face maybe, like the official move list is (but not at low res preferably). Maybe move the 'moves list' up even more near the top. It's a common thing beginners would be looking for. For combos, there are a lot that are missing and I think a bunch that are there are sort of wrong, but I don't have the console version yet to test. So once I have it, we can hammer out the list more properly. Big thing it's missing are a lot of the Atomic Collider followups, like 2D at certain hit counts, and also the whole combo series with Sledge(B) ... like ... Collider, Sledge(B), C Sledge(A) + Additional, RC, Sledge(B) etc etc etc or Collider, Sledge(B), 2C Collider, 2D or whatever. Also I think here: Throw -> Sledge Hammer(B) -> C xx Sledge Hammer(A) -> Sledge Hammer(A) -> Rapid Cancel -> Sledge Hammer(B) -> 2C xx Atomic Collider You list 2x Sledge Hammer(A)'s ... is that right? I thought it was just Sledge(A) + Additional instead. Almost the same exact shorthand notation so easy to get confused (236A 236A or 236A, 236A).
bjholmes2 Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 I'm getting kind of overwhelmed by combos for the time being. As soon as the console version comes out, I guess I'll sort through them and pick out which ones are the most useful and remove the rest. Then, I'll just add in combos that were left out.
DoomieJ Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I will def. be happy to test out a lot of these today after i get off of work, so you will have my devoted help as to which work and which dont. Esp. throw combos, because they are some beasts.
Catastrophy Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Hopefully the tuts on the LE DVD have good ones because having a visual makes it even easier to know the timing.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 If nothing else, I've got an SD Capture card so I can capture some for a tutorial vid. But I have no video editing skill at all so don't expect something beautiful. :I
craz Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Been messing around with Tagar a lot in training and I think I might have found something (prolly old news but I didn't see it in the thread). Sledge(B) -> 360 Tagar throw. Game is reading that it's not techable. If im just being an idiot, ill remove quickly.
bjholmes2 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Posted July 1, 2009 Oh yeah, I forgot about that one; Mike Z has confirmed. Thanks for the contribution!
craz Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Oh yeah, I forgot about that one; Mike Z has confirmed. Thanks for the contribution! ....I contributed?! I did something right! :D
bjholmes2 Posted July 1, 2009 Author Posted July 1, 2009 I changed the combo notation a bit, as per request; what do you guys think of it?
Kaal Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Can we maybe get some 360/720 tricks and shenanigans in the guide? I see alot of them in videos, but I'd like to know the timings and whatnot.
Maho Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Sledge(B) -> 360 Tagar throw. Game is reading that it's not techable. Look at the BIG PINK EXCLAMATION points, it's techable.
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