[CT] Ragna vs Haku-Men

[Milln]

I'm afraid. =\ We can't attack first because they have D or 3C. I feel like I can't get in properly because of D or 2C if i'm IAD j.Cing over. 2C rapes my empty jumps to throws. They're j.C is really nice and I can Inferno Divider it, but that's like... all I have in the match. Wait for whiffs and punish. Can't even make him block cause he can D out. =\ Also, what can I do when I get pinned in the corner? Good Hakumen players give me trouble. ;~;

[Prototype909]

Ugh, this match usually goes one of two ways for me. 1. I pressure the Hakumen player in the corner the entire game. Guard Crush. I win, but take 2-4 hits that leave me with a pretty pitiful excuse for a health gauge. 2. The Hakumen player counters the shit out of my pressure strings and then proceeds to rape me in the corner with wall bounce C combos. I proceed to cry myself to sleep. This match really goes I think to the player who has momentum, starting off the match with 5C can be risky as their C will come out faster so I tend to start with 5B or just start the match by blocking or back dashing. Just try to pressure them ASAP, but take care to not get blocked or else you're potentially looking at a 50%+ life loss. I tend to use Inferno Divider like mad whenever Hakumen players get me in the corner, even though it's a really stupid move. What i'll do is save my heat, Inferno Divider out and if they block it just RC and dash out of the corner and then try to push them into the corner in my stead. 5B is fast enough to catch Hakumen on some of his slower C moves, but it's still not advisable to be trading blows. Just try to use Hakumen's predictable C chains to your advantage, and don't panic and burst at any time during the match even if you're eating a high damage combo, you'll just be asking to die in one combo later. As for countering, just grab them when you expect a counter. Usually they'll counter me when I go for a 6D or a 5D, just replace whatever move you keep getting stuffed on with a grab and see if that works.

[Milln]

Perhaps 5D (1hit) Dash cancel grab win.... hmmmm... So basically keep pressuring the Hakumen? What if I'm across the screen? Wait for them or go to them?

[Prototype909]

It's really risky either way. If you try to jump in their j.C will take you out most of the time (I'm pretty sure it'll beat out Ragna's j.C too). But if you wait, then they can still jump in and j.C you regardless (Or they can just sit their and build meter or something). I suck at playing defensively, i'm just too impatient so I usually just run in. Also, from fighting 3 Hakumen's in a row just now I think i've figured something out. 5B is fast enough to take out Hakumen of most of his C moves at the start of the match, and it can reach him unless he backs up at the start of the match. However, it's also got short enough reach that it shouldn't be able to be countered if he starts the match with a 5D so i'd try that out if you REALLY want to get first attack. But yes, I think constant pressure is the best way to fight Hakumen, especially if they are one of those Haku players who sticks ONLY to C attacks and ignores the counters all together. Just remember to not allow Hakumen to counter attack you at all if possible, try ending block strings with Dead Spike if you're out of grab range and try retreating (Or continuing if you think you've got a shot at it). Blood Kain is also a pretty bad choice unless you're doing corner loops in my opinion, because Hakumen can easily avoid the increased range on D moves with his counters (Which is actually pretty cool in my opinion). For whatever reason, alot of Hakumen players tend to desperation burst at times when they get stuck in a long combo, so watch for that and try to counter it.

[Kumlekar]

Just my input having played this matchup a bunch from the other side. If the haku player if using barrier against your strings expect a counter attempt soon, barrier opens up just enough of a gap in ragna's strings to get in a 2D or 6D. Also, if you rush in with hells fang and are blocked, don't follow with tsuika, its pretty easy to counter.

[Siefer]

The only thing Hakumen really has going for him in this match-up is that he can take off massive life with one combo, otherwise, this isn't too hard of a match-up for Ragna to control. Generally speaking, Hakumen can beat you in the air, so I don't engage in air-to-air battles. If he does IAD into...whatever, 6A->combo works pretty well. Do this enough times and he'll begin to think twice about IADing you, or begin doing jump D nonsense. This works in your favor, now you can go in the air again, although this doesn't mean you can recklessly IAD C. If he's in your face, barrier guard him out, outside of his As, I believe a lot of his normals are punishable on whiff, take advantage of that. Throwing is good once the match has stalemated. Air Throwing is also good once he begins J D nonsense. Try not to be predictable on your attack strings. The scariest time is when he's trapped you in the corner, he can easily kill you in 10 seconds or less there. Barrier guard him out, ID, just get the hell out of there.

[Tsak]

Hakumen loses in the air battle pretty hard IAD battles a different story when he has more stars watch out for his kick move which is completely invincible (air) 6A wins this matchup in pressure strings and in defensive situations hakumen can't do crap about a well timed 6A besides his air kick move which honestly costs alot of stars and he won't be throwing it out for shits and giggles so you don't have to worry about it 5D at max range works against 1 of his D counters (either 6D or 5D) i think 5D which is awesome his unblockable totally misses ragna so you might be able to run in and throw him only thing to watch out in this matchup is throws really throws are always something to avoid but hakumen's throws feel worse then tager throws sometimes it does like 3k damage wtf this matchup asks for more 6D and youll be able to spam that shit in block strings a lot as he has trouble dealing with it haha (you can jc if he tries to counter and CH him) yeah i would say this matchup is probably 6-4 Ragna's favor easily

[the_d3v]

I got to play and win against a couple Hakumen's who were ranked a good number of levels above me tonight. Basically, it came down to me getting the pressure on early and not letting up. IMO, at this stage, the matchup seems pretty much in Ragna's favor, unless, as previously mentioned, the Hakumen player is able to corner you.

[Zeromegaman]

I hate this match up so much. Haku has an advantage when it comes to reach and sheer power, he can drop your health with a simple 6 hit. It's about speed, his counter may work if timed right but you gotta keep pressure and use your D moves...A LOT! Once in the corner kiss your ass goodbye, it's scary how easily the match can turn around with a Haku match up.

[miriel]

I have had some success with matches against Haku's. Especially if they like to jump in. 6A seems to beat out his i think it's j.C? I play defensively against him, and just punish his jump in's. Seems like he's pretty slow to recover on a lot of his moves after you block too. Key seems like patience to me. Every time I try to rush down a Haku I tend to get raped by his D and meaty combos >.<

[BanditRyu]

At the start of the match try using Backstep -> Deadspike very funny to watch Haku eat this over and over Also on hit or block you can combo into 5b 5c HF+ Addition That starts your wakeup game.

[A.X.I.S.]

god if your gonna rush haku in the air watch out for his 6A, it looks like it wont hit, but in contrast it eats ragna's pokes and sets you up like a jackass, so many times in a fight have i fallen for his 6A. gayness ensues. keep a good count on how many stars he has, 6 or more and it can be 4xxx+ on your ass easy. learn your highs and low pokes, practice it, throw out fast moves to beat counter, from what i see most haku's counters B's, C's, and D's, A's are too fast so stick A's on them a bit...too many ass whuppins from pro haku's showed me that.

[Damie904]

Any tips on getting past his range? I try to rush my friend who mains Haku but everytime I go in he hits me with 6C or 5C b4 I can even get near

[FlyingVe]

Any tips on getting past his range? I try to rush my friend who mains Haku but everytime I go in he hits me with 6C or 5C b4 I can even get near

Well your attacks are alot faster, so you should be able to get in on him pretty easy (watch out for counters though). As for specifics, ragna's 5C has more range than the majority of haku's C attacks and if you block a large slash you can punish with hells fang or 2C (depending on range) for a good counter hit combo. And as always pay attention to hakumens meter and block low.

[qwerty]

alright, since the info in this thread is pretty lacking, i figure i'll come along and help you dudes by giving you a view from the other side of this match. first, don't airdash towards hakumen. just don't, okay? his AA game is pretty similar to yours, but he can (generally speaking) get more damage off of his. not to mention air to air, hakumen is a very hard character to beat (air throw has tons of range, and he has hotaru to mix up with), so he can always airdash towards you if you're airdashing outside of his AA range and make you eat 4k+ from either of those. super jumping and double jumping (especially if you can bait AA's with them) are the way to approach from the air, but always be ready to react to anything hakumen might do (he'll know if you're within air throw range, trust me). for your ground approaches (which you should be trying to go for), you have a lot more freedom and a lot of ways to control what hakumen does. pressure is nice, but pressure for pressure's sake is going to get you punished (this goes against anyone, really), which is why you eventually do need to commit to something and mix up. i can't give you tips there (don't know ragna well enough), but i'll say that the best ragnas i've played have been able to make me get hit by stuff i consider easy to react to. as for hakumen countering your stuff, here's a bit of info a lot of people don't know- all of that purple blood stuff around your drive moves count as projectiles. no joke; go into training mode, have ragna do some 5D/6D pressure against hakumen and have him counter it. in most cases, hakumen will land the counter but the followup will whiff. the only time it'll connect is if he counters when your hand is within range of his counter, but that's somewhat hard to do consistently. definitely good to know for when you do all of those 5D dash cancel shenanigans, since that's something you can react to (if you run into him when his counter is still active, lol ggpo). the last bit of advice i can give is to simply respect hakumen's ground mixup. hakumen can very easily make you regret blocking on prediction (as opposed to reacting, which you should be doing) and can frame trap you to death if you aren't careful (if you block his 6A on the ground, DO NOT PRESS BUTTONS HE WANTS YOU TO PRESS BUTTONS).

[Final Ultima]

as for hakumen countering your stuff, here's a bit of info a lot of people don't know- all of that purple blood stuff around your drive moves count as projectiles. no joke; go into training mode, have ragna do some 5D/6D pressure against hakumen and have him counter it. in most cases, hakumen will land the counter but the followup will whiff.

That's not actually true. The reason Haku-Men's counter whiffs is purely because Ragna's Drives tend to have greater range than his counter can reach. If they were classed as projectiles, Tager would be able to Sledge through them. He cannot. Haku-Men doesn't care about whether something is a projectile or not outside of Yukikaze, he just cares if the opponent is in range or not.

[ryokoalways]

outside of Yukikaze

You meant akumetsu.

Anyways, ragna, for most part, has control of the flow of the fight, so just keep that in mind and things should't be too difficult.

[Final Ultima]

No, I meant Yukikaze, like how you can dodge it if you throw a projectile at it. Granted, it'd matter for Akumetsu too, as it can't counter projectiles. At any rate, it doesn't impact Ragna that much, what will with all that close-mid range fun. Uh, gimmick possibly worth mentioning: If you've got good reactions and you see Haku-Men counter a normal while you're sitting on meter, you can Blood Kain through the response. You won't be able to punish him, but he won't be able to punish you either.

[ryokoalways]

I stand corrected.

[qwerty]

as do i.

[Spirit Juice]

as do i.

scrub

[MadRhetoric]

There are some other physical attacks that have such huge reach if you counter them at max range the follow-up will whiff. Noel's bloom trigger is an example, the first hit is physical but if you counter it at its max range the counter will whiff.

[qwerty]

scrub

you should know better than to think i know how to play games.

[Damie904]

So any more tips?

[Prototype909]

Abuse 6A.