[XrdR] Kum Haehyun "Tuner" Gameplay Discussion

[Big Tier]

Having trouble with 623 (K) 4 loops, like the ones where you partially charge it, are they real important to the character or can I take some time to learn that and still do fine with him?

Also, tips on doing those loops in general?

[Ririshii]

I'd say you can still do decently well without the loops, although even being able to incorporate at least one level 2 kick in a combo can add a decent chunk of damage.  No reason to rush into stuff if you're not comfortable with it yet.  I'd argue t's more valuable to get an understanding of the orb oki game, anyway.

My biggest issue when doing loops is trying to do subsequent ones too quickly.  Shouldn't be too bad if you don't rush it, and if you get the wrong version of the kick (ie: release too early), then just know how you can still convert into knockdown.

[Big Tier]

I managed to get it once after a few hours, and then got it pretty consistent over the hour after that. Definitely something you just have to adjust to the timing for.

With that said though, what really is the crux of the fireball oki? pull it back into them and mixup high low? 

[MM Roujin]

I think the other thing that always gets me on the timing on the wallsplat loops is that you have to input the second 423K4 after the opponent has hit the wall. Or that's what it feels like to me!

Re fireball oki I think the hi-low game is pretty much it for now, obviously you can do other some other things with it, like if you are backed in the corner you can use it to airdash out of the corner while they are blocking it. It seems like a really good oki tool though once you get a feel for it, if you hit with it a few times you can start to condition people on wakeup and just do stuff like backdash away as they rise if you think the other guy is going to try and burst his way out during the blockstun from the fireball. 

[MM Roujin]

Hey dudes, glad to see that dustloop is back in action!

I made another baby Kum video while the site was down, looking at basic combo starter stuff from 2k and from an air dash. Hope it helps all the Koobs out there (like me). 

 

[DaRealZil]

On 6/13/2016 at 2:52 AM, drunkards_walk said:

Anyone find any potential uses for j.2K yet? It works as an instant OH on some characters (I haven't really done any testing on many characters), but that use seems a bit limited; I'm hoping there is something I'm missing

I've been using j.2k for throw reset situations during an air combo. Especially when I know the air combo won't kill but a throw would. It's rather gimmicky but I'll start the air combo either off an AA 5P/6P > jc > J.PPK > jc > instant j.2k. If they tech go for the air throw if not go for j.H to get knockdown/oki setups. Still testing how viable/escapeable this is. In the corner I do know it's air tight and hard for them to escape unless they tech into a reversal or see the throw coming. 

[MM Roujin]

Can't test it right now because I'm at work but can you cancel the j.2k into 214k and try to steer back down onto them after it's hit/blocked? 

Just wondering if you can use it like Bedman's j.d where you can bounce off someone's head, overshoot them with the momentum you get and then cancel into one of his specials to punish them if they react?

 

[drunkards_walk]

I'm really in love with this characters normals, so amazing. Throw game is quite strong as well. I'm curious to see if anyone will use him at CEO this weekend

[DaRealZil]

2 hours ago, drunkards_walk said:

I'm curious to see if anyone will use him at CEO this weekend

If Zidane is at CEO this weekend he'll probably be using Haehyun over Leo.

[Lynxfort]

Small note .. her throw damage is 63 on sol and that slightly above average "55 on sol"  (of course its about non combo-able throws).

And BTW you can find her frame data in Gun Frame mobile App..

[MM Roujin]

S'up peeps? How's everyone getting along with their splat loops? I am still terrible at them and can barely get a single loop done! The practicing must continue!

Meanwhile, I saw a video the other day that showed a combo where Kum was able to continue a combo after the E3PS overdrive. I did a bit of mucking about and it seems like you can quite reliably get a free bit of extra damage off the overdrive once you get your eye in if you hit the overdrive on someone who is airborne. The trick is to move the opponent behind Kum at a height that causes them to push Kum along with them after the move hits, allowing you to continue with a cs into whatever. I'm super lame but I'm sure those of you with quicker fingers than me could combo that into 623K4 to start another loop maybe. 

Anyway, I did a video to show off how it works, it's actually easier than it looks!

While I'm here I stream this game pretty regularly (and some SFV if that floats your boat), look me up on twitch at www.twitch.tv/mm_roujin and feel free to let me know how ASSSSSSSS my Haehyun is!

Happy klapping, dudes!

[Ririshii]

I'm pretty sure you can just pick them up with 2H after doing the backwards clap since it slides them toward you for a bit.  Can then go into DP loops or whatever, but it's still probably worth going for stuff > jC > jH > orb oki if you're gonna bother spending the meter to extend the combo.

[KenDeep]

Doing a rejuggle 2H doesnt allow for DP loops. The hitstun is too low to charge the dp properly. Most of the time just going for 2H, jump combo is whats best after a backturned clap.

[Lynxfort]

What is her oki options after throw vs character wsith fast wake up speed so H fireball cannot hit them from behind.?? .jD isn't that ambiguous..

[Daimao]

On 7/7/2016 at 9:41 AM, Lynxfort said:

What is her oki options after throw vs character wsith fast wake up speed so H fireball cannot hit them from behind.?? .jD isn't that ambiguous..

After a ground throw you have enough time to mini dash into Fireball YRC and this should let you hit every character (with the added effects of YRC to blow up reversals).  Sometimes this requires accelerating the fireball a little so it only hits them once or twice (the opposite of usual, where you need to slow it down to ensure meaty hit).  I admit I haven't lab'd against every character, so maybe there are some that need a different sequence.

[Ririshii]

http://www.ggxrd.com/rev/gginfo_july.pdf

Basic translations for stuff I can actually understand/have tested:

6P recovers faster.  Also now causes float on a normal hit instead of needing counter hit.

6H on counter hit tumbles the opponent longer, can basically chase 'em down fullscreen before they get up.  Something about the frames were changed too, but I'm bad at Japanese, sooo.

Both ground and air throws have more knockdown time, meaning it's hella easy to set up fireball oki now.

Clap super had something about base (minimum?) damage changed/added.

Dunno what the last thing is referring to in the list, but eh.

 

Someone just yell at me/correct me if I'm wrong on anything.  I'm certainly no expert with JP, and online translators aren't always the best help.

[Lynxfort]

1.03 Changes translated thanx to @BerserkChip

•  

Quote

 

[Kum Haehyun]

 

- 6P

Recovery reduced by 3F

Knocks up on normal hit

 

- 6HS

Untechable Time increased from 38F to 48F

Rolling time on CH increased

 

- Throw

Opponent stays in OTG state longer

 

- Air Throw

Opponent stays in OTG state longer

 

- Arakan Sanzenshou (236236HS)

Forced Prorate on 2º hit removed

Prorate of 60% added on 2º hit

Forced Prorate of 60% added on 1º hit

 

- Shinkyuu Choudengan (236236S)

Time active increased from 180F to 240F

Harder to fill up Tension during that period

 

 

Source

http://pastebin.com/hYWSgCjv

 

[KenDeep]

Praise the lord for universal knockdown after throw <3 throw gets infinitely stronger with this and allows for ball okizeme on every character.

 

Also I had the feeling that Air Hayabusa got buffed as well? Only punishable with IB it seems and no longer in throw range when blocked?

I had the feeling that blue hayabusa was nerfed as well, but red hayabusa was buffed in contrast. Blue seems to have way less reach now while its faster to get to red? I could just be thinking things though. I know for sure though that there are ghost patches in there.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Btw, 2 things in the Wiki:

 

First, it says about 5D that it can absorb 1 projectile during the red portion of the animation. That is NOT true. It can absorb infinitely many hits until the red character disappears. Please correct.

Secondly: Sometimes there are benefits to not OS the throw with 6SHS: Some of the backdashes of many characters go pretty damn far, and 6H is the most reliable normal to hit these with a corner carry, which means that when you expect a backdash but want to attempt to throw anyway, in some MUs it might be useful to input the throw raw (which admittedly is quite risky). Using the option select CAN result in you getting c.S which will for sure whiff the opponent or leave you in a punishable state/disadvantage. Using K will give you the low hitting 6K and using P gives you the very punishable 6P. So unfortunately Kum does not have a very good OS for his throw even though he might need it a lot. I would generally just advise you to to a backthrow instead, its the safest option imo and catches jump outs and denies punishes. Just FYI.

[Lynxfort]

In wiki it says
1-2H is 9 frames but in gunframe frame data and this page https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kFLtIZineOhkdfRs9wsKGwXgOaZT5xfuN0Kjud1EPdI/edit#gid=0  both say it's 8 frames !!
2-

Quote

2D
As a footsie tool it is rather lackluster,

I see the opposite.. it's not bad as a footsie tool ..what the rest of you guys say ??

[Lynxfort]

Regarding the 6H "CH" buff  if you have 50 % tension  from the right distance you can combo it to Clap super..if it blocked you just can RC it..

[Lynxfort]

The clap super cause a lot of stun on CH.. just doing it 2 times it will dizzy opp..

[NecroTheReaper]

I don't play Haehyun but a local one was able to do 6H CH>623[K] for instant corner from round start .

[Negarema]

Hey, guys, can someone please tell me how to pull the orange version of Celestial Tuning Ball? I saw it on a video, but I can't find how to do it.

[Darksteel23]

Yo I don't have a video for ya, but I got so practiced, tried and true combos that should make it easier to use Haehyun. Also some additional info.

My belief is that finding hits that lead to 623 (K) 4 to j.k, j.p, j.s, j.hs into Fireball set up without spending meter will greatly improve every Kum player.

First is the effects of 623 (K) 4. It seems with Males characters you can land 623 (K) 4 (blue) twice on them if you hit them standing or after 2D. Females hurtboxes and weight are problematic cuz they hit the wall sooner than the males do so there hitstun time is shorten making it only possible to hit them once with  623 (K) 4 (blue).

Here are my findings.

Midscreen

2P/2K/2S, 2D, 623 (K) 4 to J.K, Double jump J.P, J.S, J.HS into Fireball set up

5K/6K/Cr.S/5HS(first hit), 623 (K) 4 to J.K, Double jump J.P, J.S, J.HS into Fireball set up

Corner

5K/CR.S/2P/2K/2S, 2D, 623 (K) to 5P, CR.S, J.P, J.S, J.HS into Fireball set up

These combos does not break the current gameplay with Haehyun which is to get the knockdown and lock them down with fireballs, but it does allow you to maximize the damage Haehyun can do without spending any resources. 

My ideal playstyle with Haehyun is to apply constant pressure and force the opponent to FD or use other defensive choices to weaken and/or expose them. Trying not to go in too hard or close is the big challenge. I try to take advantage of the fact that Haehyun hits hard for almost anything that lands. I also believe Haehyun is NOT a 50/50 character however I do believe you can condition your opponent with fireball pressure. For example if you use my combo and do blue fireball set up. It can lead to a throw into a red fireball set up for another throw or use 6K or 412 (k) 4 to keep Haehyun plus and maintain pressure. Yes it is a 50/50, but I don't expect my opponent to get hit til they block only lows or highs at least 2-4 times. Haehyun ain't Millia since she hits like a truck so I usually win within 3-5 hits if I don't drop. Just using one of the two combos deals good damage for no resources used. This also allows you to save meter and get them to burst sooner cuz now they have more to worry about than YRC combos.

 

Also if you land 412 (k) 4 my combo works on the whole cast. 

412 (K) 4, (have little time to dash forward if needed) 5K and/or/without Cr.S/F.S, into 623 (K) 4 (blue) to J.K, Double jump J.P, J.S, J.HS into Fireball set up. The 5K is used to properly line the opponent up for the follow up so it's ideal to be as close as possible to the opponent while their airborne. DO NOT RELY ON CR.S to set up the follow up merely use it after landing 5K.

I believe this should help everyone who may be struggling with Haehyun.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Darksteel23