[CS2] Iron Tager vs Arakune

[A.X.I.S.]

Hate this match up even more.

I'll have a right up on it ASAP.

Just to let you know its pretty stupid...more than CS1 but less than CT.

Name of thread subject to change.

Oh god the invasion is here again and now we have it stupid.

Problem/Solution

• -J.B-This move by itself is the biggest freaking nuisance in this match up, your AA's are situational here in so many ways so lets discuss when and where you can AA.
  If he is directly above you and he is high you 2C, if he is in front of you then Collider, if he falls from a medium height then you can but not always backdash 360 him.
  
• -j.D-Dumb move you can sledge it but you probably shouldn't in some situations...say when he is close to the ground? At least not B sledge...be safe jump over it or VTC it.
  
• -6D-He does this after a combo or after setting his stuff up, sorry but its worse than CS1, the place it goes is in a place that ruins us...just have to deal with it.
  
• -2C- Always be aware of this move...always! its fast and it leads to 100% curse on CH, block it and burster him for it.
  
• -5C- Primary AA for Arakune, leads to curse on FC, just do yourself a favor and don't High jump C trying to catch him, don't elbow because it has 5-25F head invul, make it whiff if you can.
  
• -Curse mix up- Oh god I have to talk about this in so much detail...lets do this!
  To understand how to block curse mix up you have to understand Arakune gatlings so lets discuss it.
  2A is his low, it gatlings into 2B and 2C, 2C has 100p1 so block low and react to overheads.
  6A is his primary overhead and he can gatling into 6B or jump cancel it, yes an overhead that jump cancels on block...fantastic character right!?
  Now you might ask what does it jump cancel into? rising j.C which again has 100p1. Fun yet?
  Now lets say these moves special cancel into teleports. Do you guys like cross ups? I do! I do!
  6C can cross you up at point blank and its a 3 stage overhead.
  6C>5C>2C any of these can cross you up point blank.
  But the killer for you is the vast number of frame traps he has if you try to mash something out.
  Guess right for 14 seconds and you should come out in some peace.
  -F oh G- Sledge this or block low during super flash! DO NOT JUMP LORD HELP YOU IF YOU JUMP!
  
  Close/Mid Range:
  
  • Ara will come down doing J.B, block it and block low 5A gatlings into 2A and if it hits he gets curse meter.
    
  • If you are on the offensive then don't let him go! do not let him run!
    
  • 2D is hella bad in this match up and your best poke is honestly 5A or 360...seriously its that retarded, 360 works when Ara mashes.
    

  Long Range:

  Get in medium range and fast, you cannot beat him in zoning, not even spark will help you.

  VTC to get around D's or sledge badly judged ones.

  This match up sucks but you need to be on your A game and look for a slip up to win.

  Get good blocking real fast so even if he curses you it won't be a auto win.

  Trust me I did this match a lot and it will NEVER be easy.

Edited May 20, 2011 by A.X.I.S.

[Shervin]

so does that whole "just block up when youre cursed because he does more damage if he hits low" theory still apply

[A.X.I.S.]

Updated...and no Sherv lol.

[RaptaThe Dino]

Kune's 2A doesn't gattling into 2B, actually it's the other way around. Only thing that can be canceled into 2B is his 6A. So instead of doing j.C cross up into teleport Arakune may hit you low. 2B then can be canceled into 2A, 2C or 6C.

Keeping him magnetized is still crucial in this match up, it will make him think before spamming clouds and j.D spikes. When you can gadget him just do it, don't be afraid of mind games, his A pokes are slow and only reversal he has is his beam-super.

Curse clouds don't stick around as long as they did before, so if your movement is limited because of above-the-head cloud just be patient and wait for him to summon the next one. He has more start up to the cloud-summoning move now, so you may want to superjump and hit him with long range poke like j.D, which will make his cloud disappear before it touches you.

Little about changes in curse-gaining:

2C /5C /j.C fatal counters do not lead to full curse now. Normally you should be able to tech at the third iteration of his dive-loop, so it's only around 70% of curse for him.

Throw->f inverse can be followed up only for 30-40% of curse from mid screen now, but in the corner 100% can be done.

Any ground normal->f inverse it can be followed up with 5D->j.A->j.C->j.D pretty easy now. But not with Tager, because his ass is so huge it's only possible to do a 5A->5B->j.6D on him. So 30% curse less specially for you. Aren't you glad?

f of g well, it gives him the whole gauge and can be inserted in any of his combos, isn't that great? The other bad part about it that f of g can be TK'ed now and thus can be used as a threatening mix up option. Never let your guard down, when Kune has 50 heat.

6A->5D, 2A->5B->5D if close enough, 5A->2A->5B->5D point blank - Yes, all Kune's ground pressure tools can lead to a full curse without him wasting any heat gauge.

[Manta]

Odd comment about being in curse mode. If you somehow land a hit on him, stall for time as much as possible, go for stupid purples if need be. If you somehow force a green burst, stay down. Pressing all of the buttons will have made kune summon every bug, which will combo with the green burst.... and do pathetic damage. Let him bluebeat the shit out of you because it can literally do no damage after a while. They're let the combo drop eventually, but not without losing a good amount of curse mode in the meantime.

[Isorropia]

Unfortunately that's only until they learn. I've done it to our kune player enough (let bad combos bluebeat), and he'll just do a 6A to knockdown, let up in bugs for about half a second (of the 13 seconds they get each curse) then call bugs in such a way that roll/down/not teching gets you into a full combo, and neutral teching lets him run his bug mixup. It's not pretty. >.<

[Manta]

Unfortunately that's only until they learn. I've done it to our kune player enough (let bad combos bluebeat), and he'll just do a 6A to knockdown, let up in bugs for about half a second (of the 13 seconds they get each curse) then call bugs in such a way that roll/down/not teching gets you into a full combo, and neutral teching lets him run his bug mixup. It's not pretty. >.<

True, But at least it buys you some time and robs them of a bit of curse gauge. Also, it was quite funny watching an 80 hit combo do 276 damage. Green bursts have a 10/80 P1/P2 so the followup combo does a measly 8% of its normal damage. The proration became so low that I was able to tech whenever I wanted and do a surprise 720.

[Manta]

New news about the matchup (Which probably holds in CSEX) Is that magnetism and Collider are you biggest friends in this matchup. Lots of aras I've seen like to dance around in the sky because they think they're the master up there, Even if you only fling ara around with the magnetism, you throw him off of his game and most players aren't react quick enough to their forced repositioning causing them to miss moves and leave themselves open. Make sure you end every combo you manage with a drive move for this reason. Also, don't be afraid to go up there and with attack him up there; Standing still and waiting for him to come to you will not work, and most arakune players have all of the possible mixup options memorised for a standing opponent and may have more trouble if you're moving around more. Tager's air moves have fat hitboxes, so make use of them.

Random 2C when he's right in front on you cuts off much of his jumping overhead bs

Edited October 20, 2011 by Manta

[Skye]

^

This unfortunately will not work if Arakune is doing the match up right.

Arakune's version of the match up:

Precurse

• rising j.b > IAD > j.4b
  
• IAD j.4b
  
  
  Curse
  
  • Deal with it shades.
    

  Both of these beats 2c and AC.

  The first once beats backdash and the second one recovers fast enough for back dash to be irrelevant.

  If Arakune is in your face and doing this, the most likely to work strategy is to punch your opponent dead in the face/unplug his stick/throw batteries out of controller/cry.

  Now if you prevent him from getting that momentum...somehow....you can manage. It's Tager, he makes shit happens and at the end of the round is like "u mad bro? lets put some science on dat".

  But yeah if Arakune is magnetized....not too big of an advantage, we like to jump, but we can always zone.

  6[a] can be forward dashed and punished, lol sledge, 2d is a better approach since niggas like to freeze up when they see it. No smart Arakune is going jump if he's magnetized unless he's sure can make Tager cry for trying to punish.

[Skye]

Also, corrections for Srubxis.

"-2C- Always be aware of this move...always! its fast and it leads to 100% curse on CH, block it and burster him for it."

Nope, the only FC move Arakune has that goes into a stable 100 curse in CS2 is j.c and lol if that FCs you. Due to the RMP on j.c and j.2a, it's finicky because we have to go into j.2b which might whiff or fuck up the height requirements.

"-Curse mix up- Oh god I have to talk about this in so much detail...lets do this!

To understand how to block curse mix up you have to understand Arakune gatlings so lets discuss it.

2A is his low, it gatlings into 2B"

Nope, you got it backwards, 2a does not gat into 2b, other way around.

"6A is his primary overhead and he can gatling into 6B or jump cancel it, yes an overhead that jump cancels on block...fantastic character right!?"

This is a forgivable screw up since the old 6b was changed to 4b, the new 6b hits mid so it's not a mix up. SO what you meant to say was, "6A is his primary overhead and he can gatling into 4B or jump cancel it"

Happy crying.

[A.X.I.S.]

I am still gonna trade wins with you anyways. =3

Also I was too lazy to update that first post and I am still too lazy.

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

No matter what we do. We get cruse= death. It seems whatever ASW does can't make this match up any easier.

[A.X.I.S.]

If you are always losing to Ara then you're doing something wrong.

Know the player and get in on that squiggly.

Edited October 25, 2011 by A.X.I.S.

[Skye]

You know better than that, Axis.

The match up is total ass.

Your piece of advice is a player specific factor, which falls out of match up jurisdiction.

[A.X.I.S.]

You can know all about match ups but if you can't figure out the player and know his habbit's then your boned.

Knowing what your opponent likes to do is part of the match up I think.

[Skye]

Its a match up of player v player.

This is a discussion about character v character.

Imma call Osuna to infract you, you trolln nigga.

[Osuna]

Axis, you just said match ups aren't important to know in the match up thread. Then you said playing the player is both more important and also a part of knowing the match up.

Kinda all over the place there.

Players are assumed in match ups to be of comparable and considerable skill, so for a sec let's pretend habits are match up information. You can have habits and so can they so it only hypothetically favors the person with the safest options (Ara) the better odds of getting a favorable outcome (ara) and the more advantageous call out (Probably still ara).

I know I'm often better at that than people I play against, but match ups are discussed in terms that exclude that.

[Skye]

[A.X.I.S.]

Axis, you just said match ups aren't important to know in the match up thread. Then you said playing the player is both more important and also a part of knowing the match up.

I never said that, I just said knowing what the player does is part of the match up which in its own way was a troll thing to say.

I never said which is more important.

Late reply is late.

Just wanted to toss that out.

@ Skye: Shush you failed too.

[DeadliestxXx]

Hey guys. Just came back from a little tournament. Playing Kousaka and his arakune is there any way I can catch and punish his back dashes. Every time I do some sort of pressure it seems he is able to backdash away from it. Some footage of the match

http://www.twitch.tv/torontotoptiers/b/299950429 : Starts at around the 18:00 mark

[Isorropia]

If you've got mag, 6[A] can catch the backdash (this works after gadget as well). Otherwise yomi sparkbolt. Apart from those 2 things, nothing catches backdash.

[A.X.I.S.]

Delay 5D.

6C.

2D.

slight delay spark bolt.

There.