[VS] Q-Bee: The Deadly Bees

[Ril I am]

Quick rundown on the character.

Pros:

-Airdash tracks the opponent giving oppressive mixups and offense

-Great set of normals (s.mp, s.mk, cr.mk)

-low profile hitbox when crouching

-Command grabs setup strong okizeme (Bubble okizeme sets up high/low, throw or air unblock)

-able to alter her air trajectory with float and airdash after chickenblock

Cons:

-Airdash can be baited making this a weakness too.

-Lack of defense options

-relatively low vitality

-J.hp is funny. Q-bee can't "full-chain" to punish chicken blocking.

For more in depth, http://vsav.mizuumi.net/wiki/Q-Bee

Edited March 12, 2013 by Kyle

[Ril I am]

Things to Keep in mind/General Basics

1. Avoid airdashing recklessly and predictably

This is very important to keep in mind as a Q-bee player. Even though your airdash grants you a fast tri-dash allowing unreactable mixups and offense. This can also be your weakness if you misuse it at the wrong distances and timing. If the opponent jumps straight up, your airdash will go in that trajectory leaving you highly vulnerable to attacks. It is best used when you are at sweep distance from your opponent and post-knockdown.

2. Notable Normals/Specials

s.MP- This is your primary staple poke when poking from long distances because of it's great priority and reach. It can be a situational anti-air too. You will be using it a lot in your footsies game to poke and whiff punish. This is also good in your pressure strings to snuff your opponent's jump outs. Overall great poke and important. Use this poke well. Be sure to use this button over HP when going for throws.

cr.MK- Another notable poke. This is commonly used in pressure strings since you want to end them at cr.mk for it's frame advantage, but it still serves as a good alternative poke against characters that can crouch under your s.MP. Examples are Gallon, Q-bee, and Bulleta's dash etc.

s.MK- Solid anti-air against jump-ins. Covers areas where s.MP does not reach. You can also use this in corner pressuring if the opponent tries to jump out.

j.MP- Primary jump-in tool for jumping in. This will stuff many anti-airs for it's downward reach and priority.

j.LK- Main use for IADing in along with j.LP. Confirm into cr.LK > 426P/PP if it hits.

426P/PP- Command grab special you will hitconfirm into mainly. The ES version allows you to set up for Bubble okizeme because of the quick recovery.

624P- 2f fully invulnerable command grab with also quick recovery. Good to mix in with an empty IAD and sets up Bubble okizeme too. Be sure to use MP instead of HP in case of misinputs.

3. Bubble Okizeme

Strong part in her game as it grants a high/low/throw mixup into her game with the use of meter. If the opponent tries to jump, you can snuff them with s.mk/s.mp. Fortunately her offense allows her to build meter quick as long as you stay on it. Here are two ways to set it up.

1. Cr.LK/LP > 426PP. 623PP

2. 624P. 623PP

Options you have when bubble is out.

late airdash/iad j.lk/j.lp for high.

Empty IAD cr.lk/throw for low/throw (command grab can also be mixed in with throw)

If in corner and the opponent tries to jump out. Bubble will put them in blockstun and you can punish with s.MP/s.MK

4. Mix between floating and airdash

Almost like what I said with the very first one, but floating is another good tool for q-bee to catch your opponent off guard as it makes it hard to anti-air you along with your airdash. You can still do aerial attacks notably j.mp/j.mk. This also helps for okizeme after you knock the opponent down to time you airdash.

- IAD lp c.lp xx ES bee stone super (hcf 2p, don't know the name): this is her most damaging

high/low combo and gives her a benefit of 50 50 looping. after the super is done throw a

honey ball (dp 2p) then mix up high low with IAD, low poking, low baiting, float baiting,

low stringing, etc. use one of these when the honey ball gets close. when they honey ball

hits, then hcf 2p again and that's the loop.

- c.lp c.lk c.mp c.mk: her basic chain for a post mixup. c.lp is optional, just go with c.lk

and beyond when you're a little far.

- c.lk c.hp, +s.mp: this is a link if you accidentally don't get a tech block.

- c.lk c.mp c.hk: if you IAD close and want to chain and knock down, this is good. a knock-

down mixup is a lot more deadlier than a post mixup.

- float mp mk: this is a great mixup to use and you can combo a chain off of it.

- jump in mp mk: another mixup from a jump.

- float around the opponent, airdash lk or mp: this is also a good mixup that you can combo

after from. Q-bee isn't much of the combo type.

-(c.mp/c.mk/s,mk) XX ES.C-R(hcf+2P)

-c.lp, c.lpXX ES C-R

-j.mpXX s.sxp[<-that?s the actual name of the move? its basically lightning legs], s.mp

-jaguar tooth, iad rk(*), +s.mkXXCocoon grab

*it might be mk

*there should be an optional iad(homing dash) lp/mk/lk before

-ES Delta A(Jaguar tooth), Bee Super

-DF, [f.lp, f.lk,f f.mp, f.mk, f.rk]xN

*shes suppose to be barely off the ground? make sure to hold forward while doing the combo

**also, it turns out, she's low to the ground because you're suppose to cancel the f.rk w/ a land,then fly again, and link another chain.... the timings hard as fuck. practical? maybe

in addition here's a couple more

-cr.hp cr.mp cr.mk

-iad j.lk/lp cr.lk 426p

Good if you don't have the meter to do ES 426P. Good positioning for okizeme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsWjq2_B5YI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKQvweKKZs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyJJZo1QP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OqLa-aIhk

Edited April 8, 2013 by Kyle

[Kyle]

dashing lp, links shorts.

cr.hp, LINK, anything up to cr.mk.

She can float over you than airdash back the other way. Great approach against opponents with great Anti Airs.

Also, she has wake-up invincibility (similar to A.B.A.) This occurs when she ground rolls to the side & crosses opponents y-axis. Her sprite will show an animation when turne to face the opponent. This entire animation is invincible. Ne sure to compensate your meaty timings for these additional frames.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Kyle

[shoultzula]

I've played VS on ggpo since 2k7 and the only character I truly know in the game is bee. If anyone has any questions about what the character should do, hit boxes, mixups, matchups vs other characters, I can help with that.

run down on the character

AA's, s.lp, c.rh, c.fp, s.mk, s.rh

alternative AA's, dashing underneath, chicken guard poke or iad, j.fp air to air for tip, j.rh on top, iad mk\mp\rh for air to air poke. IAD MP can serve as an OS jump mp poke or air throw. Also the dashing pokes can be good AA. In a spot where s.mk can lose because of hit box placement from the opponent, dashing back s.mp will win because its detached @ the tip. Dashing s.mk in certain situations also has the same practical function.

iads need to be master to play this character. If you can't iad 10\10, that handicap will only hold you back. She has no projectiles, other than the super which can be easily stopped, so you have to base your game around normals and baiting into your mixup game. Definitely one of the best mixup characters in the game, lots of way to get a hit IMO. Also probably the fastest IAD mixup in the game.

learning when to crouch can be incredibly vital. She ducks the lowest in the game and this can affect certain characters standing pokes. A character might have a standing poke that hits everyone but it will miss bee. Your opponent will sooner or later factor this in and switch to another poke and you can counter.

the IAD itself can be saved if you IAD the wrong directions. Since its a homing IAD, she does go the wrong way from time to time. You can use the qcb+K move in the air to get distance away from the opponent to make your landing safer. You really don't want to float down from those as she can be hit quite easily.

poke sets

s.mp, c.mp, c.mk, c.lk are all good "check" pokes. You can establish her game off these for free. Poke iad or poke bait and punish.

[Kyle]

From Shoultzilla @ SRK Post#3212

when bee does c.lk, c.mp, c.rh, there is an option select for the after pressure. If I hold up fwd and you roll back, I will float then IAD meaty. If you roll behind me, I can iad for meaty lol. her followups are dumb!

[Kyle]

Anti Aulbath Strat:

Not guaranteed but very probable.

When Aulbath hits w/ dashing.mp he has a 2frame link to connect w/ cr.lp into whatever.

IF he misses the link, you can reversal ES throw. It's mean, but a legit strategy.

Watch Kosho do it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZsfBOgCh38#t=43m26s.

Step 1: IF you get hit with d.mp

step 2: 63214+PP*

*Don't forget to Negative edge

It's worth trying.

=/

[snuggleguns]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWFBqeapGf0#t=17m1s

Thought this was neat. Auto homing backwards air dash caused by forward wake up roll.

[Kyle]

1. Kubee can use her "lightning legs" to delay DF deactivation. keep mashing kicks.

2. This means the Jedah-infinite is easiest in DF mode. :3

qbee vs jedah/vic/anak. if they air block lightning legs in the corner, you can most often chip them out before they land for laughs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1T3G1Xfsc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsWjq2_B5YI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKQvweKKZs

Edited March 12, 2013 by Kyle

[Primiera]

You could say I'm ... "resurrecting" this thread. I have some questions on Q-Bee.

1. How are you really supposed to hit-confirm into 426PP? It doesn't seem like IAD j.LP/j.LK/j.MP > st.LK/cr.LK is enough to choose to cancel or not, especially because of the speed at which you have to cancel, though I'm unsure and haven't sufficiently practiced this. I understand 426PP is relatively safe on block, but I don't like ending my pressure and wasting meter if blocked.

2. How best do I land command grab? Empty IAD after an advantageous normal? It doesn't seem like trying to tick into it from the ground works at all.

3. Best way to avoid Rikuo's bubble if used when Q-Bee is cornered? Probably merely my day 1 experience, but it seems pretty damn near impossible to get out of it when used against me cornered, regardless of if oki or not.

[Kyle]

1. Jumpin chain confirm. J.mp, J.mk, land, cr.lk, 41236PP

Jumpin chain confirm j.mp, j.mk, cr.hp, LINK cr.mk xx 41236PP

Otherwise, gotta commit to IAD J.lk, land, cr.lk, 41236PP

2. dashing special cancel. Qbee's command grab is AMAZING.

3. techhit, guard cancel, counterpoke, chicken block or DarkForce depending on how Aulbath sets it up.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Kyle

[ZomB]

Darkforce and float > 426p are both invaluable tools to avoiding being bubble looped to death. Otherwise Kyle has you covered, keep in mind that using cmd throw during pressure throws the opponent out of the corner, it does however make a great defensive option for those point blank mixups.

[The Martian]

It'd be nice if someone could link me to some hitbox data for Bee. Her s.hk and hp are so weird, I'm having a hard time getting a feel for them. I've noticed however that using s.hp can be useful to keep people from jumping in on you. Doesn't seem to give the same results against every matchup though.

[Kyle]

They are shown in the link on O.P.

Also, check the thread titled important link and frame data. SHU's jp site shown active frames.

http://darkstalkers.moryou.com/savior/data-s/q-bee-s/q-bee-s.html

[The Martian]

Thanks!

And wow...looking over those pics s.hp has a ginormous hurtbox...that's insane.

[Primiera]

Between IAD jumping normal > cr.LP > cr.LK > cr.MP > cr.MK and IAD jumping normal > cr.LK > cr.MK > cr.HK, which should be the go-to BnB? I find the mix-up game after a cr.MK to be relatively good except for when opponents have a strong horizontal normal they can mash while crouched, negating both IAD and st.MP, and the only thing that really seems to work at that point is cr.MK, which completely ends pressure on block or hit.

EDIT: Apparently 41236PP is the answer to those who try to low poke you after a cr.MK?

On the other hand, it does more damage than the sweep combo, builds more meter, and if you can get your opponent to simmer down it's another mix-up. The sweep combo gives good positioning but it's harder to stop the hit-confirm at close range and I'm not sure how to deal with teching too well. Thoughts?

Also, any tips on beating Sasquatch, Hsien-Ko, and Rikuo with her? Sasquatch in particular gives me a lot of trouble, he puts out far too much damage and can stay on Q-Bee for days.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Primiera

[Rikir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THOHUtxu7FU

Q.Bee combo video for all the new Beeeesss.

[ZomB]

Primiera, you are +f on cr.MK hit, which opens up a few options. Most overlooked being something like step forward c.MP, dash.LK, ex CR(41236PP) isn't a bad option either, especially since bee doesn't really have much to do w/her meter outside of some tight confirms.

I try to confirm into sweep when I know I'm close enough and go for a knockdown mixup, but c.LK>c.MP>c.MK is a good confirm too, just learn to play the patience game after the MK and you'll be set, no need to rush into another mixup, QBee isn't only strong because of her mixups, her normals are great too!

Edit: forgot to mention floating. This will beat most mash options your opponents have vs IAD after c.MK, you can just whiff punish those with a airdash j.mp -> combo. Since it's a whiff punish you can usually get a exCR here.

Edited March 22, 2013 by ZomB

[Primiera]

Primiera, you are +f on cr.MK hit, which opens up a few options. Most overlooked being something like step forward c.MP, dash.LK, ex CR(41236PP) isn't a bad option either, especially since bee doesn't really have much to do w/her meter outside of some tight confirms.

I try to confirm into sweep when I know I'm close enough and go for a knockdown mixup, but c.LK>c.MP>c.MK is a good confirm too, just learn to play the patience game after the MK and you'll be set, no need to rush into another mixup, QBee isn't only strong because of her mixups, her normals are great too!

Edit: forgot to mention floating. This will beat most mash options your opponents have vs IAD after c.MK, you can just whiff punish those with a airdash j.mp -> combo. Since it's a whiff punish you can usually get a exCR here.

Thanks for the insight. I'm learning the game and my opponents have been quickly realizing that it's by no means a free IAD after a cr.MK, though it's so tempting because it's one of her few damaging and continuing pressure options. I'll definitely be jumping more (and floating, definitely try to put that in) than IAD after it, as I've learned IAD is the respect option rather than the go-to.

Also, I've noticed almost everyone I play will mash normals after I do, say, blocked IAD j.LP, cr.LP, cr.LK, probably not for a Tech Hit at our level. I find IAD is hard to punish this consistently depending, and trying to frame trap with dashing normals is nigh impossible. The only thing I feel comfortable doing is delaying after the cr.LK slightly and hitting a cr.MP > cr.MK; maybe I'll just jump more instead of IAD.

[Kyle]

You're right, that delayed cr,mp, cr.mk is perfect for that scenario> you can even take a small step in and do it again until they finally stop mashing.

cr.lp, cr.lk, cr.mp, cr.mk

recover, step towards

cr.mp, cr.mk,

recover, step towards

cr.mp, cr.mk,

[ZomB]

Kyle will correct me if I'm wrong, but your damage dealt is increased based on how much white life your opponent has, so after a combo a "simple" c.mp poke does more damage than it would normally.

[Primiera]

What's the verdict on 41236KK in the air, the bee EX move? The wiki says it's junk, but I find it covers an angle she has no other strong answer for, specifically when an opponent jumps in at her predictably after a string. I've seen some top players use it sparingly too.

[Kyle]

It does stall your momentum, so I've seen it be used to avoid grounded UB's after a blocked air chain.

[Kyle]

66lp OS:

The following four characters can mount an option select to punish jumps, throw when the opponent's down+back and confirm into a BnB on hit.

You have to rely on the whiff recovery-frames, Hitstop & the st.lp whiffing a crouching opponent.

Bulleta

66lp~6mp~st.lp, RENDA st.lp CONFIRM

Lilith

66lp~6hp~cr.lk, cr.mp, st.mk xx LI

Q-bee

66lp~6mp~cr.lp, cr.lk, cr.mp, cr.mk

Big thanks to:

FleshPounder for loads of technical VSAV conversations

PsychoRarity for old uploads of players doing this over a decade ago

Neojinbe for uploads of players doing this over a decade ago

SAKO Bulleta for being the first player I've noticed this from

KAJI/Kosho for aggressively applying this technique.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Kyle

[Primiera]

More of an arcade stick problem than a Q-Bee question, but it's pretty specific to her core style so I'll ask it here: how do you guys consistently IAD on the right? I find it very easy to do on the left because the thumb has such great leverage, but I feel like I just don't have the strength to go even 959 fast enough facing right. Here's how I hold my stick, pretty standard way if you ask me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SljTZDXQLZ8

It's gotten to the point where I just go for jump past > cross up AD instead. Works in low level play, but blown up by good players and chicken guarding. On the right facing left, I'm a decent Q-Bee, I get how to mix people up, going for double, triple overheads, knowing when to stay low, empty triangle jumps for command grab. On the left facing right, I've got st.MP ...

Edited April 13, 2013 by Primiera

[snuggleguns]

41236KK is junk, low damage for meter and any escape use 214k is better.

IAD to the right, push up to 9 with your fingers and then hit 6 with palm as soon as the stick hit neutral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwmfQrH4vDk