[CSE] Iron Tager General Discussion

[Scottie Yosh]

Muscle memory still gets to me sometimes, but I'm starting to get the hang of the new combos. I think it's better that we have to combo into collider from nonCH spark bolt hit because if they burst full screen they're gonna eat a reset. Tager still has alot of the same problems on defense, or atleast it seems to me. I'm losing to Yuushiro still even though Jin got the bat. Maybe that's just player skill though. :V Love the meter we get now! Not sure about CH 3C being techable/untechable, but I will try to find out tuesday. 6A seems alot less gimmicky and stops you from doing auto-pilot mixups from halfscreen only to eat a low. Did 5C hit Lambda/Mu on GF oki and catch their backdash in CS2?

[Osuna]

3C gets you a knockdown on counterhit. As for defense. Instant barrier, mess with it if you can. It is strong, but I didn't have time to figure out a specific application.

[Zeron_X25]

Whatever happened to Hazama's 3C, happened to Tager's 3C.

[A.X.I.S.]

Ok Axis change blog and explanations:

CSX is a much different game IMO.

Tager's 5A is not mashable at all! No delay mash either like hakumen, feels real stiff and doing 360B is all a matter of waiting longer, 360A can be done the same as before.

5B jump cancel is pretty reliable and it can be used as a stagger with 5A since people expecting 2B to come out.

Barrier push back is really strong, when you see barrier confirm into a jump cancel ASAP because it only takes 3 pokes for them to be right out.

New Tager combos are piss easy, you just need to know how to do them.

3C>collider>j.2C is easy, just do collider normally and jump and do j.2C, more time than one thinks.

Crouch loop is gone, Asledge startup feels slower.

Asledge is still punishable on IB it seems.

Charged sledges get a damage boost.

I noticed I did 3k from non magnetized BnB off charged Bsledge, 2.7k without charge.

Hammer and 720 guard points have very small windows, like you have to buffer it before you auto guard it other wise nope, denied.

Haven't fully figured out the corner combo, I do know its like:

stuff>collider>sledge>hammer>5C>4D/3C gadget.

Bsledge 7j.C is pretty good since it forces neutral tech and you can meaty j.B, not sure how safe it was.

5B>5C is fucking hilarious.

5C>6A will not work from further distances, the pull is so much weaker now.

2C Fatal combos are hype, almost did one several times for sexy damage.

6C>j.2C>3C is pretty boss.

TL:DR Tager is now scary up close and if you are like me and fancy poking people then you will love this game, the heat gain supplements this well.

Jabs are scarier than grabs this time around for sure and our bad match ups (Arakune and Litchi.) Are manageable but Lambda and Mu-12 feels so much easier.

[Darlos9D]

Thanks for the report AXIS. Gettin hype over here.

[Manta]

Biggest buff seems to be 5C, not because of actual stat changes, but the simple fear of the damage it leads to will force people to respect it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IoQaBrR7Oj0#t=473s

Even without mag at distance we can get something decent now. also, holy shit Jump cancel combos are legit now.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Manta

[Commanderoftroy]

You know there will be countless resets based off jump cancel combos. I wonder if jump canceling 5b in a combo would benefit or actually lead to good damage? Not sure if it would ever out do AC whiff to 3c ect.

Biggest buff seems to be 5C, not because of actual stat changes, but the simple fear of the damage it leads to will force people to respect it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IoQaBrR7Oj0#t=473s

Even without mag at distance we can get something decent now. also, holy shit Jump cancel combos are legit now.

[OrionXElite]

I've seen 5B>j.2C used in a lot of Fatal Combos in recent videos so thats an obvious application so far. Not sure if you can only do it once without proration getting sketchy or if you can actually do it 2-3 times and actually get something a bit more worthwhile out of it.

[Manta]

I've seen 5B>j.2C used in a lot of Fatal Combos in recent videos so thats an obvious application so far. Not sure if you can only do it once without proration getting sketchy or if you can actually do it 2-3 times and actually get something a bit more worthwhile out of it.

That would actually be the funniest loop. Does 5b knock them high enough from a downed state to follow up the j.2c?

[Commanderoftroy]

5b jump cancel corner carry combo wouldn't be a half bad thing to research.

[Darlos9D]

Biggest buff seems to be 5C, not because of actual stat changes, but the simple fear of the damage it leads to will force people to respect it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IoQaBrR7Oj0#t=473s

Even without mag at distance we can get something decent now. also, holy shit Jump cancel combos are legit now.

Well that was the weirdest series of attacks I've ever seen from Tager.

[Osuna]

Biggest buff seems to be 5C, not because of actual stat changes, but the simple fear of the damage it leads to will force people to respect it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IoQaBrR7Oj0#t=473s

Even without mag at distance we can get something decent now. also, holy shit Jump cancel combos are legit now.

That wasn't max distance, by a lot. The combo actually started really close by. And 2.3k is arguably much less than CS2 Tager gets off of CH 5C at that distance. Looks a lot like one of Tagers nerfs to me rather than his biggest buff.

[A.X.I.S.]

It felt like he can do better damage but...

[Isorropia]

I wonder if it's possible to do (with no mag):

(Stuff) > 3C > Asledge > 5A > j.ABC > AC

They might float too high, or it might prorate too much though.

[Osuna]

I wonder if it's possible to do (with no mag):

(Stuff) > 3C > Asledge > 5A > j.ABC > AC

They might float too high, or it might prorate too much though.

Hmmm Actually... hmmm. From a strict numbers perspective it looks really plausible. I'm not sure how J.C affects air time, but there should be enough time in the jump and in the normals if you don't have to everything just frame for the air combo. You'd need proration to be really bad for it to be impossible given that kind of situation...

gahh I want training mode.

[OrionXElite]

Given that j.C appears to be the same as CS2, I doubt that would work purely because Tager wouldn't be able to get low enough to the ground. He'd hit the j.C just after the the top of the jump arc and you usually have to be falling near the end of the jump for it to work properly. If 5B>j.2C could work non-Fatal, that'd be our best bet for some kind of air combo filler that doesn't involve a Tech Trap. Although I DO like the j.A>j.B>j.D combo cause you get either a Trap or Oki. And if they don't wanna Tech, you could probably get a pretty good follow up if you hit a Collider. Given Tager's output Damage/Heat wise now, it makes it a lot more in Tager's favor to screw people over in situations of "Potentially Beat the Trap or eat shit OR avoid the trap and let him get a long and high Meter combo." Its really a risky lose/lose for the opponent.

[A.X.I.S.]

5B>j.2C is fatal only.

I believe you can delay poking them with the air combo to link collider after j.C but they may end up floating too high, could be character specific.

When unlimited mars is uploaded you can see me do Tager combos and troll 360 strats.

[Osuna]

I've convinced myself I can get some sort of jump normals land normals.

I actually was looking at that blue beat he did and wondered if he couldn't have done GF whiff instead and what the result would have been.

I disagree on the general principle that us gaining more Heat means we could justify blue beats more, I would think it would be the opposite and the reward of Bnbs looks high enough to make Blue beats a worse risk reward.

But that's all speculation.

Edit: 5B J.2C is also very Barely available in fatal.

[Brice]

i'm back guys. in the hope i made you proud at NEC. :P my tager still needs a lot of work especially in the litchi/noel department. getting bodied in those match up is bad.

if some of you watched the videos i'd really appreciate feedback and what went wrong and what was good. i kinda know where my major problems were but overall comments are deeply appreciated. thanks

[Manta]

i'm back guys. in the hope i made you proud at NEC. :P my tager still needs a lot of work especially in the litchi/noel department. getting bodied in those match up is bad.

if some of you watched the videos i'd really appreciate feedback and what went wrong and what was good. i kinda know where my major problems were but overall comments are deeply appreciated. thanks

Noel? She's actually threatening now?

[Osuna]

Noel? She's actually threatening now?

Noel was always a threat, there weren't many good ones is all. That match up never looked all that bad to me, despite all the complaining to the contrary.

[A.X.I.S.]

Noel is quite the threat, you can't do anything really slow without worrying about getting drove through for 4-6k.

[Manta]

Just as well we have a 5A that's pretty awesome now.

[Manta]

Double post, but would anyone object to me writing a prototype CSX Tager guide? I have some ideas on how to make it awesome and informative

[A.X.I.S.]

I will not object to it.

Also Yumura did something I thought was hilarious in one of his matches against Kaqn:

Stuff>collider>j.C whiff>j.B>3C>gadget.

I expect the damage/meter gain might be better but I wouldn't know.

I did not even thing to do that.