[GGAC+R] Robo-Ky Changes and Discussion!

[fogelstrom]

I think tk dp mixup is pretty useless except as a finisher. The damage you get off of it is pretty low unless they are already in the corner. Not to mention its another combo where the opponent usually ends up in a spot that you can't really cover very well.

6239 HS, FRC, dj, j.K, j.P, j.D - 130-138 dmg it's pretty alright. They do end up teching very high so you lose oki and some momentum but I think the dmg is alright for an what would almost be considered an instant overhead I'm sure there are better combos as well but haven't had too much time in training.

Also watched through your set, nice post. I'm very new to Rky and videos are really scarce. In dire need of inspiration/motivation now that Koichi color is gone

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Alright here you go stormlocke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrFghQew-FA&feature=youtu.be

so yes.... it is

Sick!

Looking forward to the US release, hopefully soon.

GAKU has been tweeting a lot, spending some serious time in the lab: http://twitpic.com/d7wyxq

Can't wait to try and find some good stuff myself, though I have concerns that y'all seem to be talking about already.

[M.Song]

i found out last night that off of 80 heat 5d in the corner, he can use tk air dp as an impossible dust

its ok if you consider the fact that doing fd will put him from 10 bars down to 9 anyway

haven't quite figured out the best height to do it to get the most damage tho

[iora]

i wonder if you can ID with j.h and go into the multiple 2s like in that clip from gaku.

i played a few matches while at a friends who has +r, and robo felt very weird. the heat changes are mindfucking me lol.

biggest thing i wanna work with is the improved punches super+followup. and i felt like the robo dash taunted for meter a lot faster, like you could taunt some meter, then pick it up with something (maybe 5h frc, maybe 2s 5s 5h as a ky shoutout, dunno). that would be sick if true.

casual question: who else loves that new red/black color? with the red face? to hide when you get into level 2 specials? it might replace me using slash-HS

Edited August 13, 2013 by iora

[M.Song]

i've been trying some stuff where you do hidden missile into stuff in the corner... i found something combo-video like that i will record later, but it probably won't work very well in matches

you can't do ID into multiple 2s because of how high you bounce them up from 2s

it seems that you can only get ground hit followups from 2s if you built up their gravity from a high hitting combo (like punching super)

also... fighting kliff is hard... it almost feels worse than AC slayer (one thing i did find out is that kliff is another char you can go ground throw -> punching super)

i know i'm not used to fighting him, but at least slayer didn't have near full screen pokes that were really fast

and i hate that new HS color

i know my opponents don't keep track of my heat level at all, so all it does is screw me up for lvl 1 and lvl 2 heat

[iora]

i look at the gauge, not the face myself. im gonna grab a kliff on the side. hes so fucking fun :D

that sucks about ID though. i cant even wrap my head around new tech until i get the game.... at least hos i can think about it in my head...

[M.Song]

http://youtu.be/xHEWdhpwTgM

alright i finished the thing i was talking about earlier.. took me a lot more tries than i'm proud to admit

if you don't time the c.s correct then it'll just otg after the 2hs knocks them to the ground

i recorded some easy midscreen counterhit pony combos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Y2uN9WN18&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAYfON0YxSI&feature=youtu.be

i don't know if these are universal or not.. haven't tested them out yet

don't think the lvl 2 one is just because c.s 2p c.s doesn't work on everyone

then some fancy looking 80+ heat ones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od2iedP0_7U&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1LUXM2I_3M&feature=youtu.be

Edited August 20, 2013 by M.Song

[fogelstrom]

Yay M.Song o/

I will definitely try these out when I get the chance. Stupid life interfering with the release of +R so barely getting any play time let alone training mode.

*EDIT*

I did some comments on videos without even realizing it was your vids. Might as well post my questions about the combos here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od2iedP0_7U

Not possible to do 2S, sj.P,K,D, 623H at the end instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAYfON0YxSI

How about doing it GAKU style? c.S, j.H, 236S, IAD, j.P, 236S xN?

Maybe you can't even do c.S, j.H or it's really hard... I haven't been experimenting anything with that. Otherwise I guess you'd have to use 5HS FRC, j.H etc. instead but that's if you have the meter to spend ofcourse...

I also hope we get to see you post some more match vids. The amount of vids of +R Robo-Ky is too damn low!

Edited August 20, 2013 by fogelstrom

[iora]

sick stuff msong. i like it ^^6

[M.Song]

Yay M.Song o/

I will definitely try these out when I get the chance. Stupid life interfering with the release of +R so barely getting any play time let alone training mode.

*EDIT*

I did some comments on videos without even realizing it was your vids. Might as well post my questions about the combos here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od2iedP0_7U

Not possible to do 2S, sj.P,K,D, 623H at the end instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAYfON0YxSI

How about doing it GAKU style? c.S, j.H, 236S, IAD, j.P, 236S xN?

Maybe you can't even do c.S, j.H or it's really hard... I haven't been experimenting anything with that. Otherwise I guess you'd have to use 5HS FRC, j.H etc. instead but that's if you have the meter to spend ofcourse...

I also hope we get to see you post some more match vids. The amount of vids of +R Robo-Ky is too damn low!

for the first combo i can try the sj.p j.k j.d to air dp

but for the 2nd video i've only been able to get the air missile -> air dash j.p/j.k once in my life without being in 80 heat, so this was just a brief idea of what to do with that specific amount of meter. my personal preference for missile loops is 4 bars off a regular combo and 5 off a 5d, so with more meter i'd just have to do more stuff before i take them to the air. it is possible to get a 4th missile on bridget in that same combo, but i was not very consistent with the timing and the air dp is just so much easier to do... maybe if i could super jump install consistently....

[fogelstrom]

Aw alright.

I asked a friend to try out my suggestions as well and he also said that j.236S, IAD, j.P was damn near impossible so unless you're JP I guess you leave that for training mode for the foreseeable future

Will be able to play myself at friday as the earliest... but looking forward to more lab works and matches.

[M.Song]

also anyone think of any uses for 2s -> 2hs chain besides situational corner swag combos

also does anyone know if there is any visual confirmation for fd canceling the startup of 5s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad9z2BJwdDg trying to practice this

at least when you do it for 2k you can see him move forward a bit and his heat goes up

[iora]

in heat: 2s (blocked) into 2h to catch dat jumpout? or maybe 2s (blocked) into 2h (blocked) frc mixup/pressure reset?

in general i think 2s 2h frc would be a pressure extension, but without the game to play with, i have no idea

but those are the 2 big uses i would see. catch jumpouts and pressure reset

just theory though :shrug:

[M.Song]

oh yeah dunno if this was listed anywhere but incase people were wondering forced proration on air dp is 90%

also looks like command grab forced proration went from 60% in ac to 70%

the command throw is still infinitely worse

[Kikuichimonji]

2S 2HS seems like it's for people who like to swing against non-heat 2S on block. Similar to using 2K -> 2HS to bait a counter-hit.

oh yeah dunno if this was listed anywhere but incase people were wondering forced proration on air dp is 90%

also looks like command grab forced proration went from 60% in ac to 70%

the command throw is still infinitely worse

How the hell is the command grab worse? It's throw invincible, steals more meter, pushes more to the corner, and gives you more time to set up a meaty bazooka. Are you saying that it's worse as a combo starter?

[M.Song]

2S 2HS seems like it's for people who like to swing against non-heat 2S on block. Similar to using 2K -> 2HS to bait a counter-hit.

considering what you and iora said... just seems like an alternative option to delaying a 5hs then

How the hell is the command grab worse?

i'm saying that the damage now is so bad that all of those don't even make up for it

It's throw invincible

getting thrown out of the command throw on startup has never been an issue for me

i get punched out of it way more often than i ever get thrown out of the startup

, steals more meter,

the meter it actually steals is so insignificant that using it to drain meter to take away their options has been useless since AC

In AC it looked as though it stole about 15% meter and now it looks like it steals about 20% meter... ok slight buff but still isn't a game breaker

now in terms of getting meter back.. ok so without meter gain penalty or bonuses it gives around 50% instead of the 30% or so it did in AC

so this means that when you land a throw now, you should be good to get a lvl 3 bazooka oki

so yes... this one aspect of the throw, which people might feel is the entire point of the throw got a buff... steals more meter and gives more meter back

however... do you think that 5% more meter stolen and 20% more meter returned is worth the 75-80 damage that they took away from it? especially considering how people have more health now? now you can do a lvl 3 bazooka or pony on their oki now, but that lost damage is a lot of damage for roboky to do without spending any meter

pushes more to the corner,

have you seen the throw before and now? its horizontal distance is much less than what it used to be

with the new throw arc, you'll get better bazooka oki, but in return you also lose the robodash their wakeup in throw-safe distance option, which is great when you know they love pressing buttons

and gives you more time to set up a meaty bazooka.

ok this i'll give you, but part of the reason why it seems that you have more time to set a meaty bazooka is because you don't have to run as far to do it

and we all know that roboky has such great oki after he lands a bazooka right? and it totally helps that his 5d startup got nerfed

and before anyone mentions it, i strongly feel that tk dp is pretty bad as a combo starter

Are you saying that it's worse as a combo starter?

technically its a better combo starter now since the proration is less and on some chars you can land 5p f.s

tl;dr command throw was my favorite move in #R, /, AC

it got nerfed every version of gg, and ac -> +r is no exception

[Spark]

I thought it actually steals 50% from them now. Seems like they want you to always do the punch super afterwards plus the 2S follow up combo which adds up to more damage than just the grab did in AC. Though I guess depending on height and heat you can't always follow up after the super.

Also it's nice that the normal ground throw launches them higher, feels like you can do 2D + bazooka oki off it now.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Spark

[Kikuichimonji]

considering what you and iora said... just seems like an alternative option to delaying a 5hs then

Looking at the frame data, 2S -> 2HS is a tighter frame trap than 2S -> 5HS by one frame. In addition, if they block the 2HS, you're -7 (assuming it's not meaty and not IB'd) and you're pushed back really far by the 2 moves. Only a few characters can punish you. If it counter-hits, you can just robo dash without meter, or go into a meterless combo. If it doesn't CH, you can at least throw a mat down.

5HS leaves you at -17 and pushes your hitbox forwards, essentially forcing the FRC to not get punished. Even if you counter-hit with 5HS, you're only even-ish after the stagger. 2HS lets you save your meter and not incur a tension gain penalty, which is huge. It can potentially lead to you getting to level 3 off a single hit, or into a hit-confirmed high damage juggle.

If you're looking for pressure off an FRC, 5HS is obviously a better choice off 2S. But if you're not using meter, 2HS just seems like a better choice all around.

i'm saying that the damage now is so bad that all of those don't even make up for it

Just assume that every time you do the command grab, you go into 236236S super -> headbutt -> 2P xx Mat. You gain 2.5 meter, you get an un-contestable meaty 5P, and I believe it does more damage than AC. Isn't that exactly the same situation as AC, only better? You even have the option to forgo damage and go straight into level 3 bazooka pressure, gaining more meter, which is more crucial to Robo Ky.

In addition, the mere addition of a throw-invincible non-uppercut move that you can do at whim allows you to exploit people's tendencies to wakeup throw out of many different situations. The throw invincibility forces the opponent to respect Robo's offense, rather than looking for holes to exploit.

getting thrown out of the command throw on startup has never been an issue for me

i get punched out of it way more often than i ever get thrown out of the startup

IMO, people who are punching you out of it are guessing, people who throw you at the last second are reacting. And I'd rather get hit by 2P than by throw with Eddie, even in +R. Off a 5P, hitting most any button besides Sol 2D is going to get you rocked by far S xx Level 3 Horse. So if I can force them to pre-emptively hit buttons because they're scared, I consider that Mission Accomplished.

the meter it actually steals is so insignificant that using it to drain meter to take away their options has been useless since AC

In AC it looked as though it stole about 15% meter and now it looks like it steals about 20% meter... ok slight buff but still isn't a game breaker

now in terms of getting meter back.. ok so without meter gain penalty or bonuses it gives around 50% instead of the 30% or so it did in AC

I actually was trying to refer to the meter that it gives you, rather than the opponent's meter. Robo-Ky is so dependent on that 50% point of bar that I feel like that extra meter is crucial.

so this means that when you land a throw now, you should be good to get a lvl 3 bazooka oki

so yes... this one aspect of the throw, which people might feel is the entire point of the throw got a buff... steals more meter and gives more meter back

however... do you think that 5% more meter stolen and 20% more meter returned is worth the 75-80 damage that they took away from it? especially considering how people have more health now?

Yes, I definitely think the 20% meter is worth it. The difference between level 2 Robo Ky and level 3 Robo Ky is huge. In AC you couldn't get a meaty 5P off of command grab while laying a mat. Now you have all day to do that.

have you seen the throw before and now? its horizontal distance is much less than what it used to be

with the new throw arc, you'll get better bazooka oki, but in return you also lose the robodash their wakeup in throw-safe distance option, which is great when you know they love pressing buttons

I'm pretty sure you can still time a Robo Dash to be in the middle of invincibility and meaty on their wakeup. I haven't tested yet, unfortunately. I never liked doing Robo Dash to catch wakeup buttons besides backstep, anyway. It's such a commitment on your part, what if they just IB or gold burst you on reaction?

ok this i'll give you, but part of the reason why it seems that you have more time to set a meaty bazooka is because you don't have to run as far to do it

You're right, it doesn't push as far to the corner by itself as in AC. I was mistaken.

and we all know that roboky has such great oki after he lands a bazooka right? and it totally helps that his 5d startup got nerfed

and before anyone mentions it, i strongly feel that tk dp is pretty bad as a combo starter

Level 3 Bazooka -> run jump empty jump command grab/5K is basically a true 50/50. You can time the 5K to blockstring from the bazooka, which removes all escape options like backdash, reversal, and jump. Command grab beats down back, or reversal throw. Even if you guess wrong and they block 5K, you can just go from 5P -> Level 3 Bazooka again. Or you can just level 3 Bazooka, dash 2D, dash 5P for even more meter that they can't contest. They either have to block forever or take a risk on moving. This is assuming that they can block 5K/Command Grab, which they can't.

Also I think it's ridiculous that you're just throwing his TK DP out of the window. It's an un-reactable overhead that can lead into a good chunk with meter, especially in heat mode. You can do dumb stuff like 5K -> TK DP for a hard-to-block low-high that combos. Even if it's not a go-to option because it's not good on block, it is just so rewarding and so difficult to block that your opponent just has to account for it. It fills the same role as 5D did in AC, only it does it better.

technically its a better combo starter now since the proration is less and on some chars you can land 5p f.s

I was actually wondering if you meant that it was a worse started than TK DP, because the idea that the command grab is worse now just seems ridiculous to me so I assumed you were comparing the reward off of it to TK DP.

[M.Song]

alright i'll have to test the 2s -> 2hs more, but doesn't help that i primarily play against dizzy and she gets pushed out of 2hs range when she crouches really easily

Just assume that every time you do the command grab, you go into 236236S super -> headbutt -> 2P xx Mat. You gain 2.5 meter, you get an un-contestable meaty 5P, and I believe it does more damage than AC. Isn't that exactly the same situation as AC, only better? You even have the option to forgo damage and go straight into level 3 bazooka pressure, gaining more meter, which is more crucial to Robo Ky.

but you can't just assume that it works every time. depending on heat and char, you don't always get the punching super followup and depending on spacing you can't always even get a hit to connect after the followup. yes, it does slightly more damage than AC, and no the situation is not the same because you are working off a different knockdown timing and spacing

In addition, the mere addition of a throw-invincible non-uppercut move that you can do at whim allows you to exploit people's tendencies to wakeup throw out of many different situations. The throw invincibility forces the opponent to respect Robo's offense, rather than looking for holes to exploit.

you could always command throw people out of their throw ranges, also when you know people like to wakeup throw, pony is a better solution

IMO, people who are punching you out of it are guessing, people who throw you at the last second are reacting. And I'd rather get hit by 2P than by throw with Eddie, even in +R. Off a 5P, hitting most any button besides Sol 2D is going to get you rocked by far S xx Level 3 Horse. So if I can force them to pre-emptively hit buttons because they're scared, I consider that Mission Accomplished.

in my personal experience, people that punch me are mashing and people that throw me means i messed up cuz i let myself get in their throw range

I actually was trying to refer to the meter that it gives you, rather than the opponent's meter. Robo-Ky is so dependent on that 50% point of bar that I feel like that extra meter is crucial.

Yes, I definitely think the 20% meter is worth it. The difference between level 2 Robo Ky and level 3 Robo Ky is huge. In AC you couldn't get a meaty 5P off of command grab while laying a mat. Now you have all day to do that.

ok i have nothing to object with how you think about the meter gain/damage dealt, just seems to be based on personal preferences and playstyles

i would just like to mention that in AC my preference for meter is actually sitting at around 60-70%

I'm pretty sure you can still time a Robo Dash to be in the middle of invincibility and meaty on their wakeup. I haven't tested yet, unfortunately. I never liked doing Robo Dash to catch wakeup buttons besides backstep, anyway. It's such a commitment on your part, what if they just IB or gold burst you on reaction?

i was specifically referring to being out of throw range

robodash's frc used to be a really good tool for getting in another command throw and now i don't think i'd ever want to do that anymore because of poor damage and also for baiting bursts

Level 3 Bazooka -> run jump empty jump command grab/5K is basically a true 50/50. You can time the 5K to blockstring from the bazooka, which removes all escape options like backdash, reversal, and jump. Command grab beats down back, or reversal throw. Even if you guess wrong and they block 5K, you can just go from 5P -> Level 3 Bazooka again. Or you can just level 3 Bazooka, dash 2D, dash 5P for even more meter that they can't contest. They either have to block forever or take a risk on moving. This is assuming that they can block 5K/Command Grab, which they can't.

how are people not hitting you out of 5p -> bazooka? no matter how you put it, roboky doesn't have the extended gap-less pressure that other chars have

and yes people that play me can block roboky...

i told them all just block low if he's on the ground until you see the 5d.. after 5k there will eventually be openings where you have to get in closer before you can go in with 5k again in which case they are not afraid to just jump away and fd if necessary

i feel that catching people jumping away and ready to fd is definitely not one of roboky's strengths

Also I think it's ridiculous that you're just throwing his TK DP out of the window. It's an un-reactable overhead that can lead into a good chunk with meter, especially in heat mode. You can do dumb stuff like 5K -> TK DP for a hard-to-block low-high that combos. Even if it's not a go-to option because it's not good on block, it is just so rewarding and so difficult to block that your opponent just has to account for it. It fills the same role as 5D did in AC, only it does it better.

except its not better than 5d

yes its much faster than 5d, but off of 5d you'd be getting comparable damage METERLESS. also would like to point out your damage off tk dp is very similar to 5d and puts you in just as bad of a position after the combo

lets also mention 5d's incredibly long range.. max range 5d is almost safe because of how far away he is

I was actually wondering if you meant that it was a worse started than TK DP, because the idea that the command grab is worse now just seems ridiculous to me so I assumed you were comparing the reward off of it to TK DP.

i have to ask if you've actually gotten the chance to play +R at this point...

before i played, i used to think that changes to command throw weren't that bad... damage was lower than before but the new throw arc and meter gain/drain properties might have made up for it

this was of course until i actually played and because of the fact that my play style is so heavily dependent on landing the throw for damage, not meter that leads me to say that the changes to the throw make it really bad

[iora]

got to play a bit last night, and i actually threw the robo on the screen for a bit of it.

i hate the new heat gains because i dont know them

i hate the new fb motion because i have trouble TK'ing it high enough to get j.s to come out

i wanna know a ID combo that starts with j.h so i can have more tools for heat (<33 halp please <33)

i miss the damage on command throw, since one of my gimmicks is 5p 5s© 6h(level 1, frc'd) command grab.... fucking meter gain cooldown =\

2s is goofy

but hes still a solid character overall. ill keep playing the robot as a 1st alt character probably. i need xbox to get the game damnit!

[M.Song]

i got some more matches in with senkei recorded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ceMFp0TBz8&list=PLZgocHU2sE52ZHvl5HRgiZgqcDrOgS7h-

they start off with my bad kliff, but i switch over to roboky and use him for most of the set

i feel more comfortable with roboky than i did in the day 1 matches and have gotten a little more adjusted to his +R heat gains by grinding it out against the computer (that doesn't use any of the new moves btw), but i still feel like this matchup is way harder than it was before (also senkei has been playing this matchup a lot better too, which really doesn't help... 5p and bazooka are pretty useless against faust)

[M.Song]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFWMUOQxkhU

dogura is using roboky again in this acho ranbat

its really interesting for me to see how he deals with problem matchups of dizzy and faust because those are the two chars i fight the most locally

[iora]

sick find - thanks m.song

been training moding my robo again to get him back up to speed. my execution has improved since i learned bb and p4 shit (been playing hos mostly since before i really tried on those games) so im doing a lot better

but i wanna do the +r stuff. in my limited casuals as +r robo, my heat management was 'hot' garbage, and i have no fucking idea what to do with 2s launcher besides get angry it ruined my pressure lol.

xboxplease

edit: at ~1:23:28, why does that burst not hit dogura? looks like it should have....

its interesting that dogura isn't going for heat play in these matches..... style choice or just not used to the new heat ya think? he's kinda just playing old robo in a new game lol.

Edited September 4, 2013 by iora

[Spark]

During the first part of the laugh after landing Robo dash Robo Ky is invincible so bursts will go through him.

[fogelstrom]

It's probably just Dogura's style to not ever play 80 heat. I really think he misses out though with 80 heat getting buffed alongside with first hit of 6P. I try to stay at 50+ at all times. But I guess Dogura wants to mash that super or just feels comfortable knowing he can do alot of stuff and not overheat instead of having buffed normals and specials but a limitation to what you can do and not overheat.

A-cho also posted a ranking battle between Roz (KY) and Dogura (RO) for those interested. I prefer GAKU style alot more.