[P4A] Kanji Tatsumi Gameplay Discussion "Brofisting is in!"

[Circuitous]

Burn to a Crisp at minimum distance is faster than jump startup, meaning it's about two frames. If you're any farther than that, it's slow. 214C is 6 frames, 214CD is 3 frames. These are approximations, within one frame or so.

[Tae Seong Kim]

But according to the mook, kanji's AoA is -5, and I can punish it with his 214C. But I can't punish it with his "720", even at point blank range.

[Siefer]

My bad, you guys were right on the FC thing.

[Osuna]

Burn to a Crisp at minimum distance is faster than jump startup, meaning it's about two frames. If you're any farther than that, it's slow. 214C is 6 frames, 214CD is 3 frames. These are approximations, within one frame or so.

so you found an even on block move and had them jump while you super and they were still on the ground when the super whiffed right?

[Circuitous]

so you found an even on block move and had them jump while you super and they were still on the ground when the super whiffed right?

Kurushii got the numbers, so I'll assume that's what he did.

But according to the mook, kanji's AoA is -5, and I can punish it with his 214C. But I can't punish it with his "720", even at point blank range.

Are you sure you're as close as possible and that you're inputting the move fast enough?

If he's -5 you've got 5 frames to input the super and still be at neutral. The minimum input time is 4 frames (6 if you're not allowed to skip diagonals). If you're a frame or two late he can jump out.

[A.X.I.S.]

Sorry if I haven't been around I have been doing grind sessions.

I am home so I am gonna do this guide and update stuff when I get the chance.

[Tae Seong Kim]

Are you sure you're as close as possible and that you're inputting the move fast enough?

If he's -5 you've got 5 frames to input the super and still be at neutral. The minimum input time is 4 frames (6 if you're not allowed to skip diagonals). If you're a frame or two late he can jump out.

Yeah, I am pretty sure. I tried it again and again, with mirror image results. I am thinking the start up of his Burn To A Crisp is like 6+0, or 7+0.

[Krackatoa]

Yo. I'm sitting here with a Blackmagic and Sony Vegas open. Kanji's Crisp C starts up in 6+0 from what I can tell (That means Sixth Frame is Frozen, right?). Record yourself holding Up. Then input 214214+C+Replay for a good comparison if you aren't capturing whole frames. Replay has a single neutral frame before activation (And a frame counter to boot, to make things easy). Input History will also display inputs 1 frame after activation, not same frame. This means you can't snatch Kanji after his AoA.

I tried for a while just to make sure, and every time I thought I had the earliest timing, the cinematic freeze would show them in the first prejump animation frame.

Anyhow, should be right.

214C has 5 frames of startup.

5A starts up in 6 frames.

Any requests? It's a lot faster than trying to glean data via onblock punish setups in training mode.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Krackatoa

[A.X.I.S.]

5B and 2B startup please?

[zUkUu]

5C

8C

5D

8D

well and 8A then we have every "normal" standing and crouching one covered x)

edit: air grab would be nice to know. might be his fastest option instead of 8A or something.

[LegendaryRath]

Sorry if I haven't been around I have been doing grind sessions.

I am home so I am gonna do this guide and update stuff when I get the chance.

AWWWW YEAH! Seriously, that's awesome news.

[Krackatoa]

Just got home and put on some coffee. Frames imminent.

5A - 6

2A - 8

5B - 11

2B - 18

5C - 25

2C - 31

5D - 35

Air Throw - 4

j.A - 10

j.B - 16

j.C - 19

Edited August 15, 2012 by Krackatoa

[zUkUu]

awesome! thanks a bunch! he really seems slow, 11 frames for 5B - outch.

[Krackatoa]

Yo dudes. After landing Tatsumi-Style in the corner, it might be safe (barring the opponent committing to using DP) to squeeze in a Bet You Can't Take This! (Dive Grab)? It can be timed so that the falling chair should cover the recovery a bit. After which, you may be able to squeak in an AoA (Maybe get it to armor frames before they come out of blockstun quick enough to hit you), backdash or grab mixup. The trick would be to land a bit before the chair comes down, so any punish would get nulled by the chair hit. Certain moves would stop this full-out, but it might be a swag gimmick.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Krackatoa

[zUkUu]

Just got home and put on some coffee. Frames imminent.

5A - 6

2A - 8

5B - 11

2B - 18

5C - 25

2C - 31

5D - 35

Air Throw - 4

j.A - 10

j.B - 16

j.C - 19

mind doing the rest of the frame data as well? would be reeeeally awesome! you'd have our eternal gratitude!

8D

2D

Throw

All-out-Attack

Reversal

Sweep

Alpha Counter

Cruel Attack A / B / EX

Gotcha C / D / EX

Bet ya cant take this C / D / EX

This Will Hurt D / EX

Tatsu Style A / B

Crips D

Bro Fist

would be really awesome!

Edited August 15, 2012 by zUkUu

[Circuitous]

Yeah, I am pretty sure. I tried it again and again, with mirror image results. I am thinking the start up of his Burn To A Crisp is like 6+0, or 7+0.

I didn't consider pre-superflash startup, forgive me.

[zUkUu]

I combined Krackatoa's frame information, the data from Koopa_Klawz (mayonakamidnigh) and my own stuff into this chart. Everything by me came from memory as I don't have access to the game at the moment. Will keep it up to date ), so point out any errors or give additional informations (so hurry Krackatoa and collect moar data), seeing that this is just an early alpha version.

(see later post)

Edited August 16, 2012 by zUkUu

[A.X.I.S.]

This'll hurt should be C and D.

Not B and C.

And Ya can't take this is A and B.

[zUkUu]

This'll hurt should be C and D.

Not B and C.

And Ya can't take this is A and B.

haha B, C, D xD

it's almost 5.30 am here, so mind you.^^ fixed it, will upload a new pic when more information has been gathered. - can someone give damage numbers for Guard Cancel for instance? also some more cancels (in particular what you can cancel into CA; Cruel Attack)

I mindlessly used eventhubs info for the move names (and mindlessly copied the buttons used as well ;C ) that's why AB <> CD got confused.

edit: updated

Edited August 16, 2012 by zUkUu

[A.X.I.S.]

LOL I forgot sweep is 2A+B.

Stupid event hubs.

Cruel attack only cancels into bet ya can't take this.

5B cancels into itself but the hitbox will not appear on the second time.

[Circuitous]

Couldn't you just fill out the wiki if you have the info?

Edit: Nevermind, wiki already had most of it. I added in what wasn't there.

How'd you get 5f startup for 214D?

[A.X.I.S.]

214D can't be 5F.

214D should be well over that since it's really slow.

214C is said to be 5F.

214C+D is said to be 3F.

[zUkUu]

Couldn't you just fill out the wiki if you have the info?

Edit: Nevermind, wiki already had most of it. I added in what wasn't there.

How'd you get 5f startup for 214D?

wrong line^^

5f is obviously for 214 C

I didn't even found the wiki entry - all I've seen was a "deleted" page.

saw the redirect just now. still, it's nice to have everything gathered in the first topic (shoryuken kanji thread for instance) without the need to scroll etc

LOL I forgot sweep is 2A+B.

Stupid event hubs.

Cruel attack only cancels into bet ya can't take this.

5B cancels into itself but the hitbox will not appear on the second time.

insta kill is also lsited as 8,8,8 xD.

I mean added cruel attack. that can be done from quite a few moves. ^^

dunno if that's worth including if B doesn't hit anyway... mh could yield some shenanigans tho. you sure that's a cancel and not just a link as the hitstun is miniscule? seems odd that 5B is an exception to the general rule.

fixed both - added new stuff, will update pic now. edit: done

14C+D is said to be 3F.

I just read 2F... so I think we should just wait till we get test results.

Edited August 16, 2012 by zUkUu

[Krackatoa]

Gosh. All that work you put into that dopeass chart. Shee-iiiit.

The sweet siren call of an unfilled spreadsheet, my one weakness. I'll have that shit filled out in an hour.

Btn | GRD/HIT

5A | +1/-7 (+5/+14 - These numbers are if you jump cancel. <_<)

5C | -9/+8

5B | -1/0

2B | -18/xx

2A | 0/+2

5AA (Give me a bit to get this one. Have to test differently due to jump cancelability)

5AAA | -14/-13

5AAAA | -4/+6

2A+B | -16/xx (Point-blank, depending on the amount of active frames, it way better at range)

236A | -4/+6

236B | +2/xx

236A+B | +2/+10

214C+D has a goofy animation, it looks like 4 frames of startup.

Hrm. Something doesn't make sense. How are links buffered in this game? According to the data, you should be able to link 5A after 236A. Since I come mostly from a Street Fighter background, if you're at +6, you can link a move with a 6 frame startup. Is that not the same in Arc titles? Maybe I'm doing something horribly wrong here. Tips plox.

Also, all these numbers are on standing opponents. We know that there's crouching specific combos, so there may be slight variations when tagging crouched opponents.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Krackatoa

[zUkUu]

sweet! keep 'em coming I update as you update :D

you don't need to calculate frame dis/advantage for any of his special or supers as they all are either hit => knock down or whiff since they can't be blocked. here the recovery plays an important role, tho.

Hrm. Something doesn't make sense. How are links buffered in this game? According to the data, you should be able to link 5A after 236A. Since I come mostly from a Street Fighter background, if you're at +6, you can link a move with a 6 frame startup. Is that not the same in Arc titles? Maybe I'm doing something horribly wrong here. Tips plox.

maybe it depends how you count the start up. you can either say "6 frames start up" and then the first active frame on the 7th frame or that the 6th frame is the also the first active frame (like for street fighter frame data).

Edited August 16, 2012 by zUkUu