XRD [Xrd] Chipp Zanuff Gameplay Discussion

[AtTheGates]

i use 6+S+HS. better since S© gives +2 on block, if you fail the throw, you can continue your pressure.

[pduke]

When is the safest time to use "find me"?  Trying to work it into my game more.

[freelander]

Any moment when they can't hit you. But you shouldn't sacrifice momentum or okizeme opportunities. Matchup dependant.

 

In a lot of match vids I see Chipp players waste a lot of opportunities for Find me.

 

Just try doing it more and more often and see at what point they start punishing you for it.

[SiQ]

I have two questions how do you FDC and how do you teleport in combos and keep your jumps new to GG sorry

[AtTheGates]

Attended and won the first German Xrd tournament this weekend, and i have some bad news:

 

Chipp's corner 50/50 after wall cling does not work against everyone. Sol is affected, and probably many mid- and heavyweights - I have yet to test this further.

 

Sol can simply walk out of the corner and will always crossup block, even if you go for a fake crossup with a late j.HS(1). This happens because he is so low during the corner BnB into wall alpha that he gets up too early. There is unfortunately no way around this against him - if you go for a longer combo after the 623HS BnB, for example j.K > S > dj.D > alpha > wall alpha, you will knock him out of the corner, which makes the okizeme impossible.

 

However, the distance Sol will have to the wall if you go for these longer, higher combos is not all that bad actually. I rewatched some Samitto vs. Sol matches after the tournament and saw him go for these knock-out-of-corner combos against Sol frequently. After the Wall Alpha knockdown, Chipp is in front of Sol, who is still cornered but with about 2 character's widths of empty space behind him. Samitto usually does the jump over > Sol just gets up > late airdash back j.D for a recrossup setup here for meager damage, but it's a good way to screw with the opponent's inputs and make them hesitant in situations that look like they have time to act. The mixup to this is of course an FDC drop, or simply to land and go for a low hit, although you would be cornered then.

[Magaki]

Attended and won the first German Xrd tournament this weekend, and i have some bad news:

 

Chipp's corner 50/50 after wall cling does not work against everyone. Sol is affected, and probably many mid- and heavyweights - I have yet to test this further.

Congrats.

As for Chipp's corner oki, no you have no 50/50 with wall cling after wall alpha. Actually, you can't even hit meaty with that. I'll explain:

Once you go with the usual corner BnB with wall alpha ender, you got the following mixup choices with 22H:

-22H>jH meaty. Only way to hit meaty.

-22H>wall cling>6>2D. Reactable.

-22H>wall cling>4>jH.

-22H>wall cling>delay 4>jH. Crossup.

-22H>delay wall cling>6>2D. Wall cling as low as possible. Difficult to react to.

-22H>delay wall cling>S/H. Okay to throw out once in a while. Kind of a bet but the only unreactable way to use the command grab. Can be disrespected like all the others.

Like you can guess, you can chicken block/disrespect everything except 22H>jH meaty. Main reason is because there just isn't enough time after a wall alpha to really be able to meaty with wall cling mixups.

Your gameplan is pretty much to just use 22H>jH meaty and once you're certain they will respect, mix them up and confuse the hell out of them.

Something quite important: Wall alpha will ALWAYS knock the opponent face up.

Also, 22H>jH must be done ASAP to meaty against everyone except Chipp and Sin who wakes up face up much later than everyone else. Check the data Kedako found for more details.

Now you might think: "Wait what ? Are you actually saying we got no true oki 50/50 where the opponent HAS to respect you ?!"

There are actually 2 ways so far meterless. One makes you sacrifice a lot of damage while the other is height dependent.

First way is with 2D ender>22H>wall cling.

-Wall cling>4>jH meaty. Press 4>jH before they finish waking up to not crossup.

-Wall cling>delay 4>jH crossup. Delay the 4 to crossup.

-Wall cling>6>2D meaty.

jH and 2D meaty is the 50/50 here. Make sure to delay the wall cling as close to the ground as possible to make it way too hard to react.

Second way is height dependent and you mustn't use any jump option.

Basically, you want to end your combo with jD>alpha>wall cling. DON'T DO WALL ALPHA.

You will get a knockdown if you're at least at jump height.

Corner BnB ...>2D>236S>623H>jD>Alpha>wall cling is perfect for this.

From there, you can do:

-Wall cling>6>airdash jH meaty

-Wall cling>6>2D meaty

-Wall cling>4>jH crossup meaty.

Better than a 50/50, it's a 33/33/33. Even if the opponent plans to reversal, not only does he have to do it frame one but he has to guess whether you will crossup or not otherwise his inputs will be reverted.

Reason why you mustn't use jump options before is because you won't be able to do airdash jH meaty if you do that.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

I have two questions how do you FDC and how do you teleport in combos and keep your jumps new to GG sorry

You FDC by plinking SF4 style from K to another button while holding 1 (down back).

You have to jump install to use teleport in combos. The trials explain it.

[B.Z.B]

As for Chipp's corner oki, no you have no 50/50 with wall cling after wall alpha. Actually, you can't even hit meaty with that. I'll explain:

Edit: I noticed Samitto sometimes would airdash into wall cling instead of 22HS, I have tested this on Ky & Pot w/ jump on, it's a faster & lower approach which makes it MUCH easier to guarantee a meaty crossup setup that cannot be chicken blocked. AtTheGates notes below there is crossup protection in this game on wakeup - if the player holds forward (holding back won't work) he'll block both directions. However it does blow up chicken blocking and reversals (sol just DPs into the corner)!! If you want the 22HS Wall cling to hit meaty you have to have very solid ~1 frame timing of the j.d, WC WA, 22HS, WC Drop - you can also push the opponent up higher (ex: 623HS j.k j.s jump, j.d etc) so they fall longer giving you more time to set it up.

i'd recommend going into training and just setting them dummy to always jump and practice to get the timing down.

Second way is height dependent and you mustn't use any jump option.

Basically, you want to end your combo with jD>alpha>wall cling. DON'T DO WALL ALPHA.

-Wall cling>6>2D meaty

If you don't do the wall alpha, the air alpha's recovery will hit you once you land from the Wall Cling 6, so the 2D mixup would be easier to react to.

Once you go with the usual corner BnB with wall alpha ender, you got the following mixup choices with 22H:

-22H>jH meaty.

Thinking of some dirty stuff with this, like 22HS JI IAD back into corner HS (fake crossup)

[AtTheGates]

make sure to program the dummy to hold forward when you test the wall alpha okizeme crossup and fake crossup stuff.

 

guilty gear always had (and still has, it seems) a crossup protection on the first few frames of waking up. crossups on the first few frames can be blocked either way, that's why you can't really meaty crossup somebody, he will automatically block the correct way. There is no crossup protection if the player that is just getting up uses faultless defense, by the way.

[B.Z.B]

make sure to program the dummy to hold forward when you test the wall alpha okizeme crossup and fake crossup stuff.

 

guilty gear always had (and still has, it seems) a crossup protection on the first few frames of waking up. crossups on the first few frames can be blocked either way, that's why you can't really meaty crossup somebody, he will automatically block the correct way. There is no crossup protection if the player that is just getting up uses faultless defense, by the way.

 

Hm yea your right, that suckssss.  You can always mix in 6 Meaty 2D though if you are worried about it.  It'll depend on the player and if they want to try and chicken block it or not (obviously if they attempt to chicken block a meaty setup they will get blown up).

 

Also btw I thought it was easier to have the training dummy do the wall cling setup and you practice trying to block it.

[AtTheGates]

after a wall alpha, there is also a hard but rewarding option that already existed in +R: an airdash after the 6-walldive.

 

However, you can only do this if you jump install the teleport, and that is one huge clusterfuck of inputs:

 

228HS > 46 (wall cling) > 6 (wall dive) > 44 (air dash back at the right time) j.HS.

 

the mixup to this is simply to land and 2D. The problem with the setup is that it hits the opponent quite late, and he has ample time to act (air grab, 6P, whatever), so this should only be used on conditioned opponents (against which you have used the land, 2D or corner cross options before).

[B.Z.B]

AtTheGates can you test this for me (i did this on slayer & sol) - Wall Alpha Oki Setup instead of 22HS to setup the oki IAA Wall Cling, when you uncling from the wall do a quick FDC drop (do it backwards as you've swapped sides) HS.  I played as slayer/sol and set the chipp training dummy to do it, I can't hold forward to block it, and I can't jump out O_o.  It seems like FDC dropping negates the crossup protection?  

 

Edit: So having trouble replicating it now, seems like I might somehow be hitting during their pre-jump animation (so they can't jump) and the cross up protection is ending, not really sure.  You can also mess around with this idea having the training chipp dummy do mid screen 6P 5C 6P 2D SJ FDC Drop, and try holding forward.

[AtTheGates]

will take a look at it in about 20 hours.

[AtTheGates]

found some stuff for you guys:

 

first of all, you will always have landing recovery if you 6-dash off the wall if you did an alpha blade before the wall cling. this is probably designed to screw with our relaunch potential after air alpha > wall cling (you could just 6-dash, land, 6HS otherwise) and also screws with the instant air alpha into wallcling after knockdown oki - it renders the land > 2D option useless.

the airdash into wall cling option after a knockdown seems a good alternative which will both give you the let go off wall > j.HS crossup or 6-dash, land, 2D options, but i haven't tested in a match yet how much time the opponent has to act before you hit him.

 

what's also interesting:

if you do the wallcling into crossup j.HS(2) > S© > 2D, your opponent will be knocked down and you will be in the corner, which is of course not the best of situations.

to make the most of it though, you can then immediately to 7-6-4 to backjump into wall cling. from there you can:

 

1. 6-dash off the wall, immediate airdash j.HS or j.K,K,S,HS(2) for overhead. you can shortcut the 6-dash into airdash by simply using 6-6

2. 6-dash off the wall, land, 2D > 236S > 5P...

3. let go off the wall to bait reversals (probably not gonna happen though)

4. 9-jump over the opponent, airdash back j.D or j.HS. totally not meaty and unsafe.

5. wall genrouzan. super slow and shitty, and players will either 1-frame jump out or try to backdash this oki anyway.

 

1 and 2 seem like good options, but i have yet to test them in a match and against backdashes and such.

[SiQ]

Random question when you land a J.HS with chipp there are times when it hits twice and there are times when it doesn't making it hard for me to confirm is there a trick to confirming this better and what is the best way to pressure with him ppl keep mashing vs me and it ends in me losing half my health i've watch vids but i still don't understand what im suppose to be doing in neutral sadly any tips would help alot thanks

[Kikuichimonji]

Random question when you land a J.HS with chipp there are times when it hits twice and there are times when it doesn't making it hard for me to confirm is there a trick to confirming this better

Learn to recognize the height where you land before the second hit comes out. Alternatively, always buffer a cl.S after the first hit. It won't come out if the second hit connects.

You probably aren't timing your j.hs appropriately. You can make it consistently hit twice on a standing opponent by doing it moderately early. This also makes it harder to AA.

[bbang]

Hi, don't know if there is a separate discussion on challenges, but i'm posting here since it pertains the Chipp #37.

 

Anyways, after the air alpha blade (623P), wall cling, blade,sol falls in different ways. I think there are four possibilities:

 

Sol hugs the wall.

Sol falls close to the wall and chipp winds up very far away.

Sol falls close the the wall and chipp lands late not allowing for a followup juggle with HS.

Sol falls perfectly for the follow up. My question is: what determines how he falls?

 

I have watched vesper on youtube and he does the 7D with 8D instead. This seems to make no difference though. Is there a trick to completing this trial consistently? I think delaying between the 7 and D is most important but someone here (who has been playing GG much longer) can help out...

[Boschio]

Hi, don't know if there is a separate discussion on challenges, but i'm posting here since it pertains the Chipp #37.

 

Anyways, after the air alpha blade (623P), wall cling, blade,sol falls in different ways. I think there are four possibilities:

 

Sol hugs the wall.

Sol falls close to the wall and chipp winds up very far away.

Sol falls close the the wall and chipp lands late not allowing for a followup juggle with HS.

Sol falls perfectly for the follow up. My question is: what determines how he falls?

 

I have watched vesper on youtube and he does the 7D with 8D instead. This seems to make no difference though. Is there a trick to completing this trial consistently? I think delaying between the 7 and D is most important but someone here (who has been playing GG much longer) can help out...

For me, all I did was doublejump and delay pressing j.D enough so that i hit them as late as possible. I found that my body was usually higher than the training dummy and it was pretty consistent for me.

[B.Z.B]

Some ramblings

 

Corner Oki Tips

• After any KD near corner, you can almost always 2K 22HS - if don't tech this is a quick way to get a setup going.
• If you connect a 2d 236S 623HS and too far away to follow it up, you can always go for an air grab - usually you can just airdash after for a free crossup
• Been using the 22HS JI followup option more often after wall cling alpa, though its much harder to get a meaty 2D (tip hit them up higher!).  Late wallclings are much more scary to anticipate.  Also gives you new options -> 22HS 66 HS which will blowup crossup protection (but won't hit meaty).  Could also just gimmik and leaf grab them.
• Saw Endo do this after a wall cling alpha -> dash up, early leaf-grab wall cling.  Dashing will make you go over them faster.

So I re-watched  Susumu's combo video, didn't think you could connect anything - let alone a 6HS - after a high Wall Cling Alpha - pretty neat stuff packed in there.  Should check it out now that we have the game... also look for more combo videos!

 

Get used to buffering JI off of every poke!  2HS Range is much bigger then you think.  Most of my frame traps involve catching people attempting to jump (ex: block string 2D 236S s(f) JI 2HS - you can't jump out of this setup they have to air FD / counter poke / block - haven't tested it against instant block yet).      

 

2HS is amazing & punishes a ton of stuff (ex: sol - Bandit Revolver (not Bringer), Fafnir, & Riot Stamp).  Don't get too complacent with fishing with it all the time, a simple YRC CH combo could blow you up.

 

Speaking of YRC.... USE IT.  6K YRC high / low mixup 22K YRC -> good way to punish mashing on tele.  I really like Wakeup Gamma Blade YRC as well, esp when Invis, free 22HS shenanigans.

 

Anyone else figure some stuff out?  So far just been having trouble dealing with Slayer's BBC, and I need some better block string options, I get complacent expecting people to mash after 2D Rekka and I get a free CH 5K.

[AtTheGates]

 

If you connect a 2d 236S 623HS and too far away to follow it up, you can always go for an air grab - usually you can just airdash after for a free crossup

i don't really understand how you can go for an air grab after 623HS - the opponent should be really far away. also, when do air dash, after the air grab? i'd rather go for FDC drop or invis. if you mean an air dash after 623HS, that's generally what i do to apply more pressure, but there's no potential for a crossup, since your opponent will simply air tech.

 

Get used to buffering JI off of every poke!  2HS Range is much bigger then you think.  Most of my frame traps involve catching people attempting to jump (ex: block string 2D 236S s(f) JI 2HS - you can't jump out of this setup they have to air FD / counter poke / block - haven't tested it against instant block yet).      

 

FD totally destroys these blockstrings by the way - it's one of chipp's biggest problems when trying to apply pressure.

 

2HS is amazing & punishes a ton of stuff (ex: sol - Bandit Revolver (not Bringer), Fafnir, & Riot Stamp). 

i'd use 6P (CH 6HS against riot stamp for damage. i don't know about bandit revolver or fafnir, but personally i prefer 6P against bandit revolver, it's quicker and has the added invulnerability. i can't imagine 2HS working against bandit bringer in all situations (depending on your blockstun and range etc.). does 2HS beat fafnir clean if both hit on the same frames? a trade isn't really in our favor.

[Rykendawg]

Are these still his go-to pressure options? http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=986

[AtTheGates]

Are these still his go-to pressure options? http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=986

pretty much, yes. think of it more of a pointer in the right direction. be careful with gamma blade, it's just too risky in pressure strings now.

[Sarvets <---xbl]

Atthegates I'm guessing bzb means that air dash after 236hs is probably for teching after they wall stick. I get these occasionally and people tend to tech alot as.you approach them with air dash even though you may not reach them. Normally I would rejump after post 236hs air dash and catch them. Also 236hs air dash to 22hs air grab when they tech

[Sarvets <---xbl]

Also I have alot of success with super basic ground leaf throw into dash up 2k 2p s s 22k. People get confused by the semi late ground tele and you appear deep into their body for whatever combo. (For me typically anything into 2d rekka variations.

Once they get hip to this you can also do 22p as ender for another leaf throw etc.

Also keep in mind that dashing leaf throw can fuck up their mindset to counter.

it seems to add momentum to leaf throw but you gotta do it semi early.

The mindstate is as a oki grab meaty

[B.Z.B]

I'm much more hesitant to do leaf grab unless I'm invis (+R's Full Strike Invul spoiled me).  Invis YRC Leaf Grab on wakeup is really good, also mixed during invis blockstrings - as most people are anticipating a tele or dash up grab.