[Xrd] Bedman combo thread

[Robzington]

Yeah, the hitbox on the second hit got a vertical expansion.  Fixes a lot of the problems with weird crouching hitboxes and juggling lightweights properly, which is great because so much of this new stuff is very character specific, so it's nice to have something that's consistent and universal for the most part.

[Tiamat]

I was messing with the Clock Overdrive's new wall stick.  It seems pretty good if you can get them with 1H in the corner somehow.  It even allows you to wallstick them twice in the same combo if you use full tension for it.  

 

Corner:

c.S 5H(2) 1H > delay Clock OD > 2369K >  c.S 5H(2) 1H 236H

*217 dmg on Sol, sets K and H DVs

c.S 5H(2) 1H > delay Clock OD > 2369K >  c.S 5H(2) 1H > delay Clock OD > 2369K > c.S 5H 236S

*238 dmg on Sol, sets K and S DVs

 

Full tension one not worth it probably but the 50% tension one seems good, you gain back 25% by the end of the combo so you'll have two DVs out and be able to YRC one of them.  The important thing is to slightly delay the OD after the 1H.  If you do it immediately the OD will hit sooner and they will be able to tech before they reach the ground.  If you delay doing the OD slightly you can get them to slump all the way down the wall without being able to tech.  

[KDowah]

Instant Kill combo off counter-hit:

 

CH 1HS/2HS/3HS > RC > IK activate > 236236HS (Theatre Of Pain)

 

A bit situational but still pretty viable in my opinion, especially if your opponent tries to chip you out from a distance when he's near to losing the game. You also have a bit of leeway after the RC to confirm into something else if you didn't get the counter-hit.

 

Also works from an already active Instant Kill state if you swap the RC for an empty Deja Vu (providing the 2HS is close enough to knock them into Theatre Of Pain range, of course).

 

EDIT: You can hit Theatre Of Pain off a normal 1HS, the timing's tight but very much manageable.

 

xx > 5HS > 1HS > RC > IK activate > 236236HS (Theatre Of Pain)

[KDowah]

It's also worth noting that Bedman's corner dust combo from challenge mode (No. 30) has been altered, so it's worth checking out again (if you had completed it before the patch it will still be marked as complete).

 

The new combo reads:

 

5D > 6 > 6HS > 236K (Task A') > c.S > 5HS > 1HS > 236HS (Task C)

 

It's almost identical to the original but adds the homing dash to make up for the fact that 5D >6HS > Task A' doesn't combo anymore. I still think we might be able to squeeze some more damage out of our new homing dash, but I've not found anything so far.

[SectumSsempra]

This new combo route is pretty delicious.

 

Instant Kill combo off counter-hit (Hellfire only):

 

CH 1HS/2HS/3HS > RC > IK activate > 236236HS (Theatre Of Pain)

 

A bit situational but still pretty viable in my opinion, especially if your opponent tries to chip you out from a distance when he's near to losing the game. You also have a bit of leeway after the RC to confirm into something else if you didn't get the counter-hit.

 

Also works from an already active Instant Kill state if you swap the RC for an empty Deja Vu (providing the 2HS is close enough to knock them into Theatre Of Pain range, of course).

Now if I'm not mistaken shouldn't that also work when their health is in critical state?

 

 

Also YES at those helios corners.

The delay isn't huge, pretty much instead of canceling into the input, input it naturally.

[SectumSsempra]

Are we sure this new route is based on weight? Having trouble with characters like venom and may.

May will get hit but not bounce, venom hurtbox seems to be unaffected by sj. S unless my timings off

So far ive got

J. SPS (pretty much all variations work on these guys)

Sin

Faust

Sol

Slayer

Axl

J. PPS

Millia

Ino

J PKS

KY

Chipp

Ram

Zato

Staggered JPKS

Bedman

Venom, pot may are the standouts for me I have where one of those dont work

Anyone wanna verify?

[sterkenburger]

Sj 883P 236H for may and el, havent try venom yet, and yes it base on weight . Sj PPS for ino, millia. Rest can be hit with Sj PKS or SPS ( not tested on slayer zato and ram )

[SectumSsempra]

Those are what ive got now I edited them in but am really just seeing if we're on the same page. I dont have el and the video shows leo.

[NecroTheReaper]

Venom gets hit by sj.PKS>j.236HS, you just have to delay the superjump slightly. Pot gets hit by j.K>j.9K>j.S>j.236HS, May and El I've only ever gotten sj.883P to work on but its TIGHT AF. I'd almost say unreliable, at least on may

ZATO: IS AN ASSHOLE. And as such requires his own route

5H>1H>sj.K>j.3S>236HS>2P>c.S>236HS

[KDowah]

Now if I'm not mistaken shouldn't that also work when their health is in critical state?

 

Hmm, perhaps I'm using Hellfire in the wrong context. If by critical state you mean the state in which your Instant Kill is golden then yeah thats's what I meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding

[KDowah]

Are we sure this new route is based on weight? Having trouble with characters like venom and may.

May will get hit but not bounce, venom hurtbox seems to be unaffected by sj. S unless my timings off

So far ive got

J. SPS (pretty much all variations work on these guys)

Sin

Faust

Sol

Slayer

Axl

J. PPS

Millia

Ino

J PKS

KY

Chipp

Ram

Zato

Staggered JPKS

Bedman

Venom, pot may are the standouts for me I have where one of those dont work

Anyone wanna verify?

I managed to get SPS on Ky by delaying the super jump, it's pretty awkward but I think with enough practice it shouldn't be too difficult to pull off,If not the damage increase isn't all that great so PKS will more than suffice. Other than that I got pretty much the same results. Still suck at getting the second hit off the air Task C on lighter characters, though.

[NecroTheReaper]

After more testing, sj.K>j.3S works on more than just Zato and gets 20 more damage than the air task C route. I believe its worth learning for the few characters it works on

[SectumSsempra]

Hmm, perhaps I'm using Hellfire in the wrong context. If by critical state you mean the state in which your Instant Kill is golden then yeah thats's what I meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding

I might be wrong. I just know hellfire is the post super counter. enough fausts and sols have gotten it on me that it's ingrained lol, but we meant the same point.

 

I managed to get SPS on Ky by delaying the super jump, it's pretty awkward but I think with enough practice it shouldn't be too difficult to pull off,If not the damage increase isn't all that great so PKS will more than suffice. Other than that I got pretty much the same results. Still suck at getting the second hit off the air Task C on lighter characters, though.

It seems like some of them can almost work universally but the timing becomes more awkward.

If someones just reading these and trying them out, j PKS isn't that much of a damage sacrifice in the end, on slayer it's about 9 less damage from the basic route. 

 

 

After more testing, sj.K>j.3S works on more than just Zato and gets 20 more damage than the air task C route. I believe its worth learning for the few characters it works on

 

I really really have to get these on point. I still accidentally just go straight into task C after a 1HS because of muscle memory

 

Also thanks a lot guys this combo is really good. I wonder what else we'll discover down the line.

[Tiamat]

Tried to use TK Task B to 2P juggle combos.  It's pretty hard.  

 

Corner 886 j.KS c.S 5H(1) 2H > TK 236S > 2P c.S 236H

 

You can do the TK with either 2369S or 8236S.  I had easier time doing it with the latter when I got the timing down better.  I was mostly trying it on Sol and Millia, it works on them.   If you mess up the TK 236S it will hit them behind you to other side of screen.  It seems the way to get the combo is to do the TK as soon as you possibly can, so they have barely moved toward you and are very low in the air.  They will kinda get hit along the top of the 236S and you'll land quick enough to get the 2P.  

[Robzington]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQFRaBs0fOY

 

Made a quick mash-up of the really easy 1.1 stuff.  When I get in the mood to hit the lab again I'll make part 2 featuring such wonderfully tedious things as the weird timings for Venom/Bedman, the super annoying sj.883P route for Elphelt/May, and the sj.K  j.3S route.

 

On a side note, I really wish they had given j.H faster startup and/or more hitstun.  It has literally the perfect hitbox for characters that fall out of j.S/sj.S and would have made for some pretty nice/easy universal combos.

[sterkenburger]

You can do normal jump 883P 236HS on El , which is much easier to do, this however doesn't work on May ( stupid japanese 22 year old loli anchor wielding hitbox ). The sj 883P is so inconsistent that i feel it better to just do regular 1h 236HS and get it over with.

[B.Z.B]

Throw > 5K > j.S > 3j.S > j.S > 3j.S Task C (lightweights)

How does the timing for this work?  Also there a list categorizing the characters into their light medium heavy weights anywhere?

[sterkenburger]

5K asap, the 2nd j.S need to be delayed a bit. U can do 5K j.S 6j.S c.S as an easier route or 5HS j.K 6j.S c.S. As for the list  : http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=System_Data_%28GGXRD%29

[Shadow Ninja 64]

Are we sure this new route is based on weight? Having trouble with characters like venom and may.

May will get hit but not bounce, venom hurtbox seems to be unaffected by sj. S unless my timings off

So far ive got

J. SPS (pretty much all variations work on these guys)

Sin

Faust

Sol

Slayer

Axl

J. PPS

Millia

Ino

J PKS

KY

Chipp

Ram

Zato

Staggered JPKS

Bedman

Venom, pot may are the standouts for me I have where one of those dont work

Anyone wanna verify?

So far, discrepancies I've noticed in this list (my execution might just be off, though):

Zato: I got sj.PKS to work once, but most of the time the j.236H whiffs. I think the one time it worked I did something weird like delay sj.PK, delay S, but I couldn't recreate it. I tried with all kinds of different delays, tried sj.KPH with various delays, etc., and didn't have much luck with anything.

Chipp: With sj.PKS, the S whiffs. With delay sj.PKS, the second hit of j.236H doesn't connect. Delay sj.PPS seems to work fine on him, though.

Venom: Delayed sj.PKS XX j.236H seems to work just fine. After that, walk forward a step before 2H XX 236H, otherwise the second hit of 236H whiffs.

Potemkin: c.S 5H(2) 1H jc j.PH~9 j.KH XX j.236H, c.S XX 236H seems to work. However, this variant does not seem to work with even one more hit at the start, like a j.S or a 236K to their back.

No luck on May and Elphelt, even when I found patterns that seemed like they would hit (like delay sj.P delay K delay S on Elphelt), the j.236H just doesn't connect.

It's also worth noting that the rules change for some of these groups if you are doing the combo off of something like 6H XX 236P RC walk 5H(2) 1H because of the ball projectile. Some characters you can do the same pattern, like Sin and Slayer, but other characters you have to do a different pattern, like switching to sj.PPS for Sol, delay sj.S H(1) XX j.236H for Chipp, sjK H(2) XX j.236H for Bedman and Potemkin, or sj.P H(2) XX j.236H for Millia, I-no, Ky, and probably most characters as a general case, actually.

[NecroTheReaper]

If you're gonna do a 236P RC combo, might as well confirm into dust>6236HS for that corner carry. Never tried it, so the ball could be hit or miss, but if you're gonna RC in your string anyway, could just RRC the 6H

[Robzington]

I've also seen 6H>Task A>RRC>Walk up 1H>TK task B>Task A return hit>Task C in a video, not sure if it's character specific tho

[Tiamat]

Nothing fancy but I tested the short corner throw combo on all the characters.  If all you care about is getting the knockdown things are a lot simpler now thanks to the change to 236H.

 

Corner throw f.S 5H 236H works on all characters except Zato and Venom now.  Against Zato and Venom you can use f.S 236H instead.  

[Shadow Ninja 64]

If you're gonna do a 236P RC combo, might as well confirm into dust>6236HS for that corner carry. Never tried it, so the ball could be hit or miss, but if you're gonna RC in your string anyway, could just RRC the 6H

I might be misunderstanding something here, but if you're suggesting 5D~6 XX 236H combos, it doesn't seem to even be close to connecting here, at least on Sol.

Also on Sol:

6H RRC walk forward c.S 5H(s) 1H sj.SPS XX j.236H, 2H XX 236H is 180-181 (178 without c.S) and just over half stage carry

6H XX 236P RRC 1H jc j.236S, (ball hits) 236H is 164 and around 3/4s stage carry

6H XX 236P RRC walk forward 5H(2) 1H sj.PPS XX j.236H, 2H XX 236H is 189 and again just over half stage carry

You could also end in 2H jc j.S XX j.236S or probably some other, more complicated ender, which does the same 189 damage and throws Sol into the corner in all cases except where the initial 6H basically corners Bedman, placing Bedman at about twice f.S range away.

Edit: Oh yeah, similar to something I saw in a video, but 6H XX 236P RRC walk forward 5H(2) 1H sj.PPS XX j.236H, j.KS~6 j.S XX 236S is 187 on Sol and throws him into the corner even in the extreme case of Bedman crossing up into the corner with 6H. In that extreme case, Bedman ends up about 2.5 f.Ses away, whereas if you travel the same direction the whole time he ends up at worst in f.S range. You can also end in j.KS~3 j.S 236H, which is also 186-187 damage.

I love that Bedman has new, cool, high damaging and high screen carry routes like this.

[Tiamat]

Did they make canceling to airdash from air normals faster or something?  I don't think j.K 6 j.S comboed before.  Like corner grab f.S j.K 6 j.S for example.  

 

On Millia you can do 

 

Grab > f.S j.K 6 j.S c.S 236H 

[NecroTheReaper]

I noticed that too, cuz I used it while training on El. It'd be awesome if they made you be able to cancel out of floats faster, but idk