Shadow Ninja 64

Ok, I'll tackle all that in order: - I said in my post that 6A is a situational combo starter since it whiffs on most characters crouching. I only listed the combo with the 6A starter because I was using it when I was testing the damage values of various patterns of meter usage in the combo. It's also still worth knowing the 6A 5B 6A 5B 5C thing because it works all the time after Kaigen crumple stun for great damage. - If you don't think the combos with Kaigen assist are worth it, that's fine, but having the ability to go from one corner to the other guaranteed with one meter spent (or most of the way corner to corner with no meter spent) seemed good enough to me to mention. Later in your post you even mention that it's not always about the damage, and the value of gaining the corner while also knowing the patterns that give the best damage is valuable, at least to me. Also, 5C XX [4]6X~4X is great as a midrange poke option, but it isn't really a hitconfirm, nor does it give you time to build the charge for [4]6B from a neutral situation like the 6A combo starter or like the 2A 2A cl.5B far.5B 5C patterns I mentioned do, which was a secondary goal that admittedly I did not mention in my previous post. - For the sake of comparing damage values, 6A 5B 6A 5B 5C XX [4]6B~4X~Kaigen, dash 22B, dash 2C XX level 3 does 11779 damage, less than 300 more damage than the combo I posted on the prior page and significantly more difficult. 6A 5B 6A 5B 5C XX [4]6B~4X XX level 3 does 10978 but doesn't work if the combo ends up too close to the corner for the ~4X to have enough travel time to cover the startup of the level 3. - About 646AB, I don't recall ever saying anything about it being bad, so I'm not sure why you think I'm downplaying its value. It's a very, very good super, actually. What I did say is that, in the combo pattern I posted, if you were going to spend 2 bars of meter, you got higher damage from using her C+E~A presses Variable Rush super than you did using 646AB twice in the combo. I guess I'll take this opportunity after responding to that post to say that I'm not really qualified at all to tell people how they can or should play Ignis or any other character in this game, really. My only goal with the previous post was to show my findings on one particular combo pattern with the goal of carrying from corner to corner using the Kaigen assist and maximizing damage done for differing values of meter expense after that. That's what I tested and what I posted, nothing less and nothing more.

Good to know, I just mashed that shit out and didn't even think about there being a timing aspect to it. A ender is better for Ignis anyway both because of what you said and because the C ender swaps sides, which is a kinda silly thing to do on a combo built to both do damage and carry to the corner.

I decided to play around with Ignis in training mode, messing around with stuff I'd seen in videos or on the wiki, and found some things that are half interesting and half boring. For instance, she has some very damaging corner to corner ground combos utilizing Kaigen assist, using any amount of bar. Here's a three bar example with what seems like her highest damage normal string starter: 6A 5B 6A 5B 5C XX [4]6B~4X XX 646AB~Kaigen, dash 6A 5B 6A 5B 5C XX [4]6B~4X XX C+E~mash A [11121] 6A whiffs on most crouchers, so you're probably not gonna go for that as a starter every time, but the nice thing is that the 6A 5B 6A 5B 5C thing seems guaranteed on every character after the Kaigen crumple. It's at least worked on the 8 or so characters I tested, including short characters, huge characters, and Homura. Of course, max damage for three meters seems to just be this: 6A 5B 6A 5B 5C XX [4]6B~4X~Kaigen 236236BC [11498] I tested both of these combos with other starters, and they even work with something like 2A 2A cl.5B f.5B 5C as a starter. The only starter that changes things up is Ignis's command throw, and the one change you have to make is using [4]6A the second time instead of [4]6B. In the case of two bars, spending both at the end for C+E~mash A does around 100 more damage than using 646AB before Kaigen and then again at the end of the combo (it's seriously like 10348 vs 10241 or something). If you aren't going to spend any meter, don't end with [4]6X~4X unless you want them to air tech for some kinda trap setup. I don't know what the hit advantage is when ending in just [4]6X, but you could instead opt to end in something like 6A 5B 5C 2E XX 421X to push them mostly into the corner and put a wire trap in front of them. Also, whenever you do [4]6B~4X~Kaigen, don't dash too early or you'll make the opponent fly further than Kaigen can reach. One last note: even though Ignis C+E~mash C does like 2k more damage when used naked than C+E~mash A does, in combos the mash A ender ends up winning by around 1k.

I posted this Sonico combo before, then found out it doesn't work on Homura because she falls too fast to connect the j.5B after the j.AA downspike thing. Against her, it's better to do j.2C straight into j.421AB or even just do the dj.A(2) XX j.421A if you don't wanna spend meter. I also played around with it some more and found this with the Althea assist using the same combo. It's really nice because this is way more consistent with all starters, including 6A and 2C starters: 5AA(4 hits) 6A jc j.A(2) dj.A(2) XX j.421A, land j.A(2) djA(2)A~j.2C~Althea, dash, 236A XX 421AB or (C+E~mash A) [8169 or 9144] Do the 236A as the second hit of the Althea assist is connecting, and cancel into whatever super you're going to end with after the last hit of 236A, basically right when the third hit of Althea is connecting. 421AB super is like 600 more damage here than 236AB super was for whatever reason. Like before, I don't know if this is even optimized, but it does good damage for the expense and it's pretty funny so I'm happy with it. Edit: This combo even works fine after something like 2C~5D, 5A/6A jc as a starter

I don't know if this is actually good or not, but Sonico gets 7.1k damage off her 5A for one bar and no assist calls and the combo is actually pretty easy and also really funny to me: 5AA 6A jc j.A(2 hits) dj.A(2) XX j.421A, land, j.A(2) dj.A(2)A~j.5B XX 623B(2) XX 421AB Same combo works off 2AAA starter, and probably off other starters, too, although I was having issues with it off 2C. if you start with naked 6A (like in an anti air situation), you might have to delay the j.5B or use 623C after it instead or something. You can also end with 623B(1) XX 236AB for less damage but a super that is assist cancelable.

After watching a little bit of Evo Uniel and checking out Uniel[st] footage, I felt like fooling around with the game in training for the first time in awhile. I found some combo improvements that I didn't see in either the old google doc or the one posted on this page. These are probably already things people know about but I figured I may as well post them anyway. Also I was finding these on Linne but then tested several on Hyde before needing a break: Old combos: [4]6A CS j.A j.B j.C, DashB XX 214B, nj.B j.C j.6C, nj.C XX j.214B [3352] [4]6A CS delay j.A j.B j.C, DashB XX 214B, j.B j.C j.6C, 3C XX [4]6C [3896] [corner/near corner] 236A XX 623C, 2B 5C XX 214B, 3C, 2A 5B 5C 3C (XX 214C) [3954 / 4491 but out of corner] New combos: [4]6A CS walk back 3C, 2A delay 5C XX delay 214B, 6C, walk back 2C 5C jc j.C XX j.214B [3641] [4]6A CS walk back 3C, 2A delay 5C XX delay 214B, 6C, walk forward 2C 3C XX 214C [4114 [corner/near corner] 236A XX 623C, 2B 5C XX delay 214B, 6C, walk forward 2C 3C XX 214C [4434 on Linne and still in corner] Also a couple non-CS 3C corner combos: 3C, 2A delay 5C XX delay 214B, 6C, walk back 5C njc nj.C B XX 214B [3538] 3C, 2A delay 5C XX delay 214B, 6C, walk 2C 3C XX 214C [4001] I realize some of these are mostly fringe cases (like the super hard read corner 3C starter), but it still helps to know the upper limits of your damage potential even with starters you probably aren't going to hit very often. I also saw some things in that November google doc that I might try with the various combos to see if there's even more damage to squeeze out.

I might be misunderstanding something here, but if you're suggesting 5D~6 XX 236H combos, it doesn't seem to even be close to connecting here, at least on Sol. Also on Sol: 6H RRC walk forward c.S 5H(s) 1H sj.SPS XX j.236H, 2H XX 236H is 180-181 (178 without c.S) and just over half stage carry 6H XX 236P RRC 1H jc j.236S, (ball hits) 236H is 164 and around 3/4s stage carry 6H XX 236P RRC walk forward 5H(2) 1H sj.PPS XX j.236H, 2H XX 236H is 189 and again just over half stage carry You could also end in 2H jc j.S XX j.236S or probably some other, more complicated ender, which does the same 189 damage and throws Sol into the corner in all cases except where the initial 6H basically corners Bedman, placing Bedman at about twice f.S range away. Edit: Oh yeah, similar to something I saw in a video, but 6H XX 236P RRC walk forward 5H(2) 1H sj.PPS XX j.236H, j.KS~6 j.S XX 236S is 187 on Sol and throws him into the corner even in the extreme case of Bedman crossing up into the corner with 6H. In that extreme case, Bedman ends up about 2.5 f.Ses away, whereas if you travel the same direction the whole time he ends up at worst in f.S range. You can also end in j.KS~3 j.S 236H, which is also 186-187 damage. I love that Bedman has new, cool, high damaging and high screen carry routes like this.

So far, discrepancies I've noticed in this list (my execution might just be off, though): Zato: I got sj.PKS to work once, but most of the time the j.236H whiffs. I think the one time it worked I did something weird like delay sj.PK, delay S, but I couldn't recreate it. I tried with all kinds of different delays, tried sj.KPH with various delays, etc., and didn't have much luck with anything. Chipp: With sj.PKS, the S whiffs. With delay sj.PKS, the second hit of j.236H doesn't connect. Delay sj.PPS seems to work fine on him, though. Venom: Delayed sj.PKS XX j.236H seems to work just fine. After that, walk forward a step before 2H XX 236H, otherwise the second hit of 236H whiffs. Potemkin: c.S 5H(2) 1H jc j.PH~9 j.KH XX j.236H, c.S XX 236H seems to work. However, this variant does not seem to work with even one more hit at the start, like a j.S or a 236K to their back. No luck on May and Elphelt, even when I found patterns that seemed like they would hit (like delay sj.P delay K delay S on Elphelt), the j.236H just doesn't connect. It's also worth noting that the rules change for some of these groups if you are doing the combo off of something like 6H XX 236P RC walk 5H(2) 1H because of the ball projectile. Some characters you can do the same pattern, like Sin and Slayer, but other characters you have to do a different pattern, like switching to sj.PPS for Sol, delay sj.S H(1) XX j.236H for Chipp, sjK H(2) XX j.236H for Bedman and Potemkin, or sj.P H(2) XX j.236H for Millia, I-no, Ky, and probably most characters as a general case, actually.

That new combo route is amazing. He should have had that all along.

I made a post earlier in the thread, part of which had to do with simple corner throw combos for avoiding accidentally OTGing with the 3rd hit of 236H: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10014-xrd-bedman-combo-thread/?p=877480

This is how I interpreted it as well.

Big Shi with a small u next to it adds up to Shu as his name. Japanese has to do it that way when they don't have a character for that consonant-vowel syllable pairing. There are times where they'll do it with the ya, yu, or yo character instead of the vowel character, though, so maybe that's why the autotranslator was confused. Edit: Looked into it again to refresh my memory, and yeah, Shu is usually written with big Shi and small Yu, as opposed to big Shi and small U, so that's definitely the source of confusion.

5K 3P f.S Shark Strike dash 6K works just fine even if the f.S connects at its maximum range. Just to be sure, I went and verified it with Quickest Possible stagger recovery. The key is the dash timing, obviously, but it's not hard in practice. Anyway, to continue the comparison you started with that Raei RC combo: 5K 3P f.S Shark Strike dash 6K(2) c.S 5H 2D Rensen~up [160 damage on Sol, no hard knockdown, 25% tension built] 5K 3P f.S Shark Strike dash 6K(2) c.S 5H 2D [144 damage on Sol, hard knockdown, 18-20ish% tension I guess] 5K 3P f.S Raei RC j.HD, c.S 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) TK Bomber [163, hard knockdown, 12-13% tension] I think where your Raei RC combo is going to show its real merit is when you get to the corner since there's potential to get another rep of something into TK Bomber there. You might have to modify the combo somewhat for it. Also, it might be wiser to do 5K after the j.HD than c.S, since at least on Sol I'm having issues with getting far S instead while I'm messing with it just now.

Shark Strike is also your combo option off a far S or if you know for sure a 2P or 5P is going to connect grounded. Shark Strike combos are less damage but better meter-wise than RC combos off the same starter, so it's worth knowing them. An example: 5K 3P f.S Shark Strike, dash 6K(2) c.S 5H 2D Rensen~up - On Faust and May, you have to omit the 6K You might also opt to just omit the Rensen and keep the 2D knockdown if damage is less important to you.

I was messing with Sin combos against different characters in training earlier when I found that the usual ... 623S > 214S >214K[6] > late j.6H seems to not work on Ramlethal. In cases like this, do I need to do something like 214P[4] instead (I know I got that to work on May, anyway), or is there a better option I'm not aware of? Also, when it comes to the heavyweights like Potemkin and Bedman, it seems like grounded 6H > 623S > 214S > 214K[6] > late j.6H doesn't connect (as was mentioned in a previous post on this page), so what's the best alternative in that case? Maybe just ... 6H > 623S 214S > whiff 236K, > 2H(2) > 5H > 6H into ender?

With 50 meter for the RC, [2]8H(2 hits) sets you up to solid damage on any successful reversal flash kick. More importantly, [2]8H(2) RC is Leo's best damage in hitconfirm combos that go into 5H or into a close enough BT S, trumping Rekkas RC and BT 214S RC options. Combos into flash kick also provide solid carry in one direction, something that Rekkas cannot do due to the crossover thing they do.

The combo I've seen for corner OHK is this: OHK, dash c.S 2H XX [2]8H, c.S jc j.D jc j.S H D XX Ensenga [179 on Sol] This puts them back in the corner and I can confirm it works on everyone. However, the timing and spacing seems very tricky to get used to, since you have to get the dash into c.S to hit about as high as possible so that the vertical dolphin causes the opponent to only barely cross over you, allowing the air series to work after the second c.S. Still feels easier to me than that IAD does, though. As for this combo, I think I saw it in one of the May threads here, actually.

KennethBR's day 1 Leo basic combos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wsN1AfS_lE Leo neta combo movie by Marlon Craig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxKq53uIR4Q Just as a note to people who watch the tutorial or combo videos, several of them have been transcribed either in the General Discussion thread or the Combos thread, including the Hainiki and MEIJIN videos.

Here's a simplification for confirms into [2]8H(2) RC that I hadn't considered: ... 5K c.S 5H XX [2]8H(2) RC land, walk forward 6P c.S jc j.K jc dj.K H XX 236H This is similar to the other simplified combo I posted for the flash kick RC route but is better damage and mostly does the timing for you. The more restrictive the starter was with the mid-combo 6H version, the less damage you give up with this version. Off CH 5H and CH 6H, this route basically ties the original route in damage because the original route could only reliably get j.K XX j.236H at the end. It also looks sillier than doing the j.D whiff into a walk/dash since Leo just sorta flies in the air next to the opponent with his arms up like he's having a good time. Also, I played with something I saw in that most recent neta combo video that was posted, which was the corner 5D6, c.S 5H XX [4]6H combo starter, but it wasn't coming anywhere close to the damage off already known corner dust combos. It's too bad because it was pretty neat to combo into it like that.

You know, I actually knew about that from other characters I've messed with (Axl, May), but it never occurred to me that it was kicking in off the YRC slowdown at the beginning of the combo. A friend of mine told me the same thing and I was coming to edit my previous post when I saw yours just now.

Here's a sort of extension of my post with some of the [2]8H(2) RC whiff j.D combos. Besides comboing into [2]8H off of a chain into 5H,, you can also combo into it off a close range BT S. This is easier than comboing into it off 5H but also more restricted because BT S pushes away instead of the vacuum effect of 5H, but there are still potential uses here. I compared them to similar options off BT 214S RC, with the damage numbers being on Sol as usual: [CH] 2H XX whiff 236H, BT S XX [2]8H(2) RC whiff j.D, dash 6H, dash 5K c.S jc j.K H XX j.236H [232] [CH] 2H XX whiff 236H, BT S XX 214S RC dash 6H, dash 5K c.S jc j.K jc dj.K H XX j.236H [218] Note: The BT S has to connect about as low as possible for the two early hits of [2]8H to connect, otherwise you miss a hit and lose some damage. [CH] 5[H], BT S XX 214S RC dash 6H, dash 5K c.S jc j.K jc dj.K H XX j.236H [218] [CH] 5[H], BT S X [2]8H(2) RC dash 6H, dash 5K c.S jc j.K jc dj.K H XX j.236H [235] Secondly, I re-examined the combos starting with counterhit starters into the 5K c.S 5H XX [2]8H(2) RC starter with both optimal damage enders and a far easier variant. Here are those numbers: [CH] 6K, 5K c.S 5H XX [2]8H(2) RC, dash 6H, dash 5K c.S jc j.K H XX j.236H [226] [CH] 6K, 5K c.S 5H XX [2]8H(2) RC, walk forward 5K c.S jc j.K j.S(1) jc dj.K H XX j.236H [216] [CH] 5H/6H, 5K c.S 5H XX [2]8H(2) RC dash 6H, dash 5K c.S jc j.K XX j.236H [228/234] [CH] 5H/6H, 5K c.S 5H XX [2]8H(2) RC walk forward 5K c.S jc j.K dj j.K H XX j.236H [225/231] Basically, if you land counterhit 5H or 6H, you can give up 3 damage and some corner carry in exchange for a much easier and more consistent combo ender. For the counterhit 6K, it's probably still worth having the 6H in the middle, as the following dash 5K c.S are a lot easier to consistently connect after it in this case anyway. Finally, I was playing with some conversions off [4]6H YRC when I found something weird. I was getting drastically different damages if I did this combo at training mode start compared to if I did it after Rekkas. I cut the Rekkas out of the equation and still found this: From training mode start, [4]6H YRC 2D, j.K j.S(1) jc dj.K H XX j.236H [111] From training start, step back a step, then [4]6H YRC dash 2D, j.K j.S(1) jc dj.K H XX j.236H [144] In both cases RISC is at 0, Sol is at max health, and the 2D definitely connects first, yet the same combo differs by 33 points of damage. I tested whether [4]6H does more damage as it travels further, but it was a consistent 54 damage standalone no matter what the range was. I also tested whether 2D and dash 2D do different damage but they don't. However, if you do the first combo with a deep enough dash 2D, you do get the damage of the second. I'm really at a loss for how to explain this difference in damage, but maybe there's something about [4]6H's juggle properties that I'm not aware of here.

Counterhit far S combos into 2H, which is in turn cancelable into Task A which will sometimes combo depending on character and spacing.

If you're getting an RC without the dolphin coming out, you are either messing up the dolphin motion or are pressing RC too early and canceling the startup of the dolphin summon before it's actually summoned. For the airdash j.S H, if you're getting the S but the H is not coming out before May lands or is whiffing under the opponent, you need to do S a little earlier in the airdash. The benefit of that combo besides the damage is that it travels corner to corner. However, if you're May and you want an easier thing to do after OHK throws the opponent out of the corner, you can instead go for one of the side switch combos: OHK, dash c.S 2H XX [2]8H (opponent crosses over May), (dash) c.S 2H XX [2]8H OHK, dash c.S 2H XX [2]8H (opponent crosses over May), (dash) c.S jc j.D jc j.S H D XX 41236H The second one is a bit harder but should also go a longer way toward pushing them back into the corner after OHK throws them out. I don't remember if it is universal, though. I'm sure the folks who've put in actual time with her besides just messing around with her combos will know the answer to that, though.

More about the 236H crossover: On Leo, c.S 5H XX 236H combos easy every time. However, on counterhit, it never combos unless you do a deep dash in before the c.S. I think this supports my idea of the instant crossover being a product of overlapping hitboxes during the reeling animation, since the counterhit c.S 5H string seems to push the opponent Leo just a tiny bit further away than normal. It should also be noted that the above video of Leo looping 5H XX 236H on himself and it comboing every time also doesn't hold up on counterhit, even though the full version of 236H combos anyway from the 5H. Edit: I guess if High RISC counterhit combos become an integral part of Leo's gameplan, we're going to have to start marking down what the minimum RISC necessary for various combos to work is. For instance, here's one I just did on Leo combining a couple concepts from that MEIJIN video: [78% RISC minimum, corner carry required] counterhit 236H, BT S XX 214S, dash 236H RC dash 6[H], BT S XX 214S, 2P XX [2]8H (292ish damage) Another example, again on Leo: [64% RISC minimum] counterhit 236H, BT S XX 214H, 5K c.S jc j.K jc dj.K H XX j.236H (292 damage)

There are some extremely cool combos in here utilizing RISC gauge (that's the half circle pink thing right?) buildup to allow multiple moves to counterhit in the combo. I liked it so much I transcribed it, so maybe folks can play around with the stuff and find other combos or optimizations using these ideas: [high RISC Guard Crush corner combo] BT 214H RC dash 2H, 6[H], BT 214S, 6[H], BT S XX 632146S, 6[H], BT S XX 214S [CH] BT 214S, dash 236H RC, dash 6[H], BT S XX 214S, 2P c.S XX 632146H BT 214S RC dash 6H XX 236H, j.P K S(2) jc dj.H XX j.236H [blocked stuff into CH 236H, opp burst] BT D, BT 214H, microdash 6[H], BT S XX 214S RC 6[H], BT S XX 632146S [high RISC GC combo] BT 214H RC dash 5[H], BT K S H, BT S H, BT 632146, 6H, 2H XX [2]8H [high RISC] BT 214H YRC counterhit 2H, j.236H RC 5D8 into dust ender [high RISC] counterhit 236H, BT S XX 214H, microdash 2H, 6[H] (crosses over Venom), BT S XX 632146S [high RISC] counterhit 236H, BT S XX 214S RC dash into IAD crossover, 2H, 6[H], BT S XX 632146S [corner] throw into BT K OTG reset, BT H, BT S H, BT S XX 632146S, 6[H], BT S XX 214S, 2P XX [2]8H [high RISC GC burst bait] BT 214H RC dash 5H~P (blocks burst), 6[H], BT S XX 214S, 2H, 6[H], BT S XX 632146S (Ky dizzy), 6[H], BT S XX 214S