[Xrd] Ramlethal vs Slayer

[Sakaku]

Discuss the matchup here.

[Killey]

Summary

 

[collapse]Slayer's dash invincibility and dandy steps can make playing neutral and defense really annoying as you're not really sure of the timing and spacing to launch attacks on him. Overall, I have to say this match up is either even or in Ramlethal's favor but there are aspects of the match up that can make this challenging. You really have to capitalize on your damage output against Slayer since his damage and stun output off of counter hits and RC combos are high, especially against Ramlethal's low health.

 

Much like the rest of Ramlethal's match-ups you want to work Slayer into the corner so you can run your sword deployed pressure and oki game. While he doesn't have meter-less reversal options against your sword oki, his back dash has invincibility frames on it then can help avoid sword oki mid-screen or flat out punish some oki set ups with back dash cancels. In the corner, he's not able to utilize back dash cancels as freely so you'll be able to pin him down to a certain extent. On the flip side, you don't want to get cornered against Slayer because his whiff punish & frame trap game is good against Ramlethal due to her far ranged normals being slow and her fast normals being short ranged. Her defensive options against Slayer's pressure is limited without meter as well so you'll need to IB to punish some strings or make good reads to reset to neutral or interrupt him.[/collapse]

Gameplan

Neutral game:
[collapse]The round starter is a bit of a coin toss here because both characters have ways to counter each other's typical round starters. Far S will counter Slayer's round starting pokes or a Mappa Punch starter; however, Slayer's Dandy Step, back dash, forward dash, or a Back Dash Cancelled Mappa Punch will cause Ramlethal's far S to whiff and leave you punishable. A delayed far S will counter Dandy Steps but won't work vs his dash options but a 2S/HS will counter both of those but are riskier as a round starter. Round start instant air back dash, up back, or up forward are usually good neutral options that leave neither player at an advantage or disadvantage but can be countered accordingly. If Slayer reads this as your go to round starter he can use 6HS to counter it into good damage and corner carry. Obviously, this is countered with your far S and we end up in full circle on round starter options.

 

This is a match up where you want to keep the swords equipped for the majority of the neutral game until you can find a good spot to deploy them for pressure. The S sword helps you counter poke his normals or poorly timed/spaced Dandy Steps. The HS sword is good as your air-to-ground approach with j.HS and help score counter hits vs Dandy Steps or attempts to anti-air you with 6HS. Be careful with the spacing though because it does leave you in a CH state so he's able to 5P (CH AA), 6HS xx Dandy Step~Pilebunker for good damage. Depending on meter and corner positioning he could RC and do some really nasty damage after wards. Both 2S and 2HS are also good at stopping Dandy Step, dashes, and air approaches. If you have meter be sure to YRC or PRC these on whiff.

 

Once swords are deployed you have to stick to the air and pick your spots on approaching Slayer, as you'll have no normals to check his Dandy Steps, Mappa Punches, 5K, 2K, or 6HS. On the plus side Slayer has to respect the swords and play defensive to a certain extent. Some of his ways to avoid the sword is to super jump and utilize his j.2K command normal to prolong his air time to wait out the swords and then come down with a j.D. If you stagger your 2S/HS you may be able to counter this but other wise you can try to go air-to-air with j.P, air grab, or 6P anti-air. 6P is pretty tough to time because he can continue to use j.2K to throw off your timing and the j.P can be awkward because the j.2K changes his jump arc significantly. It's usually not a bad idea to leave one sword equipped so you can use the 2S/HS variant as a more reliable way to anti-air him on the way down.

 

If you're using j.6/2 S/HS to stall in the air and then come down with a j.K or something you'll have to be careful with the height. At lower heights, Slayer can use 5P to anti-air you and if he scores a CH he'll go into the above mentioned combo of 6HS xx Dandy Step~Pilebunker. He can also use the dashes as an attempt to avoid the swords, which doesn't always work, but if it does it can also make your falling jumping attack to whiff as well giving him an opportunity to start offensive pressure.[/collapse]

Offense:
[collapse]You essentially play the neutral game with the swords equipped and try to find an opportunity to either whiff punish or counter an unsafe string from Slayer into a knock down. Once you've got the knock down you can deploy the swords and try to run Ramlethal's deployed sword pressure from there. You have to adjust the type of mid-screen oki you run though due to his escape options. Be aware that when Slayer has 50% meter you have to watch out for reversal D.O.T or Eternal Wings and both are super punishable on block. Slayer can use back dashes to make meaty sword oki whiff but they'll take this one step further and use back dash cancels to either punish or force momentum back in their favor. 

 

From mid-screen, after a throw or 2KK knockdown avoid doing the typical 6HS, 2K/2D/6K mix up. Slayer can straight up back dash to avoid it or back dash cancel into D.O.T (50% meter) to punish. I'm not sure if it's possible but a back dash cancel dandy step into whatever might be able to whiff punish 6K in that set up. If not they'll reset to neutral or gain offensive momentum if they force you to block something. If you want to try and make a hard read you can try to follow the back dash and punish the recovery or you can try to use Daruo to punish the back dash. It's more difficult to do this when they start back dash canceling into something since back dash cancels give about 6f of invincibility to the special they cancel into. Off of a throw, you can do 6HS, IAD j.K if they back dash you'll land and be able to punish with 2D into a combo starter.

 

In the corner, they can back dash cancel into a chicken block to try and avoid the first sword during your sword oki game. The type of knockdown, timing of your sword deploy, and whether it's the 6 or 2 variant will dictate whether the back dash cancel will work. If you stagger the sword deploys appropriately he'll be forced to block the other sword. If they manage to block the initial oki setup and the follow up pressure and you try to to reestablish pressure with j.2/6 S/HS they can just forward dash during the start up and apply pressure during your landing.

 

When pressuring Slayer up close, Ramlethal's forward dash will high profile Slayer's 2K and 2HS causing them to whiff on her completely. If the Slayer player likes to poke with these normals or use it to interrupt a pressure string you can use a forward dash to go over it and punish him. It can be useful to sneak in a command grab but keep in mind the Slayer player can just use 2P instead to interrupt this.[/collapse]

Defense:
[collapse]This is where it gets really tricky for Ramlethal because Slayer's pressure game isn't reliant on high/lows but rather a series of frame traps with his normals or built-in whiff punishes with his Dandy Step. What Slayer will try to do is crank up your RISC gauge and then try to land a hit through a bad read on your part so that he gets a huge counter hit combo. He does have a high/low game but it's not the center of his pressure game. He can also use his forward dashes to do left/right mix ups as well.

 

Mappa Punch is only -1 (P version) or -2 (K version) on block so you can't punish it unless you IB it. If they space it at max range you tend to lose when trying to counter poke with 2K as their 2K has more range. If done up close then any poke will counter hit theirs. Instant Blocking the Mappa Punches will guarantee a punish for you with 4P, 3K2K knockdown allowing you to start setting up midscreen or corner oki.

 

Typical block strings from Slayer involve c.S, f.S, 5K/2K, 6HS which is a frame trap string because the far S leaves him at +6 on block and his 5K is 7f start up but leaves him at +3 on block. The 2K is 6f start up and leaves him at +4 on block but both options leaves him at a far enough range where it's hard to poke him out of the 17f start up of 6HS. The 6HS is also really good at catching up backs without a faultless defense. c.S is -4 on block and leaves a gap in between the f.S string so if you IB it he'll be -7 allowing you to squeeze in a tight c.S punish, or an easier 5P, 3K2K punish; you can also back dash after wards to make the f.S to whiff. If the c.S is done from farther distances (not far enough to get f.S) then you can interrupt the f.S gatling with 5P. If you're in the corner in that back dash scenario you can whiff punish after wards. They can start whiff punishing your interrupt attempts by special canceling c.S into Dandy Step. If you IB the 5K and they go for the 6HS you can use 5P or 2P to interrupt the 6HS. Alternatively, you can use Blitz Shield on the 5K/2K, or 6HS to punish these strings. 

 

Slayer has a few options he can do after the f.S because it leaves him at +6 on block. He can either go for Dandy Step pressure, forward dash command grab, forward dash throw, forward dash cross over, or jump cancel into an IAD j.S for a cross up. It gets difficult to counter all of the possible scenarios on reaction. You can interrupt him on all of these options with throw, 2P, 5P or an air grab on the IAD but doing these on reaction can be difficult. You can also use up back FD to try and reset to neutral or Blitz Shield to counter some of their options. Slayer can go for these options on hit to create a reset situation so be aware of this. 

 

At any point in his block strings he can cancel into Dandy Step to try and whiff punish a counter attack. I find that 2KK will always punish all Dandy Steps before they can do a follow up so you can mash this if you spot the Dandy Step but they can start YRCing it in response to your 2K and try to whiff punish after wards. The safest option for the Slayer player in a post Dandy Step scenario is to use Under Pressure (S follow up) to keep himself neutral on block. After a blocked Dandy Step~Under Pressure Slayer can do the following mix ups:

• It's Too Late (S/HS follow up to Under Pressure) - 14f start up, +1 on block, 1-13f throw invincible, overhead. Probably his safest option for him and leaves him + frames if normal blocked or FD. 
• 6K - 20f start up, -2 on block, over head, can be feinted or YRC'd for additional mix up options. Quick high but he doesn't get a combo after unless he RCs it. He can hold K to prevent the kick from coming out, you may see over head feint into 2K or command grab. He can also YRC the start up to leave him air borne and go for a jumping attack starter where he'll be able to combo if it hits.  
• 5D - 24f start up, -9 on block, over head. Punishable on block with 2D or 2KK depending on distance and push back. If you IB you have enough time to dash c.S to punish.
• 2K - 6f start up, +4 on block, low. His best and probably only low option in this scenario (you won't see 2D in this scenario). Really have to be careful with this option because he can link c.S if he's close enough or just cancel into Mappa Punch RC combo.
• Forward Dash - 18f duration if short distance, 24f for full distance. If done midscreen it'll cross over and he can either do c.S, throw, or command grab. A good option for them to catch you sleeping but also side swap if their back is to the corner. Definitely be aware of this option in the mentioned scenario.
• Dandy Step - 30f recovery on P version, 38f recovery on K version. Less frequent option and a bit more gimmicky but can be used to try and continue pressure or whiff punish something like mashed f.S. If they do Crosswise Heel or Pilebunker and you block it you can punish severely. Helter Skelter is a possible option since it can cross up midscreen, +12 on block, and leaves him air borne for jump attack options.

There's enough of a gap after Under Pressure that lets you interrupt his 2K, 6K, 5D, and forward dash options with 5P, 2P, or 2K. If he delays the It's Too Late you can interrupt with 5P as well but if he does it immediately there's no gap to interrupt. The best option available though is to IB Under Pressure to make it -4 on block and then punish with 5P, 3K2K combo or back dash to make the follow ups whiff and then whiff punish if you're in the corner. You can Blitz Shield all of these options except for the It's Too Late option if you didn't IB Under Pressure. If he counter hits you with Under Pressure it leaves you in a stagger state where you have to mash to recover. During this time he can go for resets by forward dashing through you and then do a c.S cross over. If you mashed out of the stagger you'll have to deal with the potential cross over reset. If you failed to mash out of the stagger he'll just combo off of the c.S. 

 

If Slayer knocks you down from mid screen with 2D or j.D his mix up game involves the following options:

 

• Forward Dash x 1-3 - This is a form of a left/right mix up by utilizing Slayer's dash to phase through your knock down body. Slayer usually only has enough time to do 2 dashes where he forward dashes once to get behind you, then forward dashes in his new facing direction to end up on the same side that he started the mix up. If they get a knockdown that pushes you away from them they might have time to do 2-3 forward dashes and be behind you instead.
• Back Dash YRC, Forward Dash - The YRC is to mess with your reversal timings and give Slayer more time to act after the forward dash, which will put Slayer behind you.
• Meaty 2D - Hits low to catch wake up buttons or back dashes. If blocked it leaves him at + frames.
• Meaty Dandy Step->Under Pressure (whiff)->It's Too Late - Overhead that leaves him + on block. You can Blitz Shield the meaty It's Too Late.
• Dandy Step->Under Pressure (whiff) ->2K - 2K hits low and is done close enough he can link c.S after wards. It's a basic high/low between It's Too Late and 2K. It's also good at countering wake up Blitz Shield against the overhead. You can wake up back dash to avoid the 2K or wake up throw the 2K but this will get you counter hit if they do It's Too Late since it's throw invulnerable during start up.
• Additional gimmicks you might see are Mappa Punch, RC, Under Tow for an unblockable. You can back dash out but the timing is awkward. If Under Tow hits it leads to a knockdown into a potential mix up.

[/collapse]

Character Specifics

[collapse]Wake-up Timing:

• 26f face-up
• 20f face-down 

Reversal Safe Oki:

 

Midscreen:

 

Setup: 2KK/Throw > Instant Air Dash > j.6S > j.K

Sword(s): S Sword Equipped

Info: A cross up set up. Good for screwing up their back dash inputs.

Reversal Safe: Yes.

 

Corner:

 

Setup: Combo ending in j.8D > 6HS > j.2S

Sword(s): HS sword deployed outside of the corner

Info: Meaty 6HS set up against Slayer.

Reversal Safe: Yes

 

Setup: Combo ending in j.8D > slight delay j.2HS > j.2S

Sword(s): S & HS sword deployed in the corner

Info: Meaty 2HS set up against Slayer.

Reversal Safe: Yes

Comments: Slayer can back dash cancel to avoid the meaty HS sword but still has to deal with the S sword after wards.

 

Lows:

• 2K - 6f start up, +4 on block
• 2HS - 13f start up, -4 on block, low crushes

Over Heads:

• 6K - 20f start up, -2 on block, feint-able & yrc-able for additional mix ups
• 5D - 24f start up, -9 on block
• It's Too Late (After Dandy Step~Under Pressure) - 14f start up, +1 on block[/collapse]

[Killey]

Additional information discovered during my time playing casuals at NWM7.

 

When Ramlethal does a forward dash it causes Slayer's 2K and 2HS to completely whiff on her but his 2D will still connect. This actually allows you an additional method to push offense and do things like sneaking in a command grab. If you're doing staggered pressure with 2P, 4P dash, 4P/c.S/command grab, etc... if the Slayer player attemtps to interrupt you during the dash with 2K it'll whiff and you'll be able to get a counter hit or command grab. I've updated the above post with this information.

[Destin]

If it's really like dizzy's dash, you can actually forwards dash over ky's stun dipper then throw before the slash part.  Timing is tight though, prolly better off bsing the slash part.