BladeOfJustice7 Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Again, a video would be a lot more helpful. As far as general match-up goes, while Ragna can frame trap, they are all either very slow or high risk. So it's a simple matter of just playing the numbers. Getting in on him isn't difficult, it just takes time. dp should not be a problem, and 6A only matters if you are in the air too much (doesn't matter if you are air dashing or not. Ragna can get under you quickly, which is a pretty bad position for hakumen). Stay on the ground. Not sure what you mean by far jC. 6A will crush jC at basically all effective range. And if it's any farther then just reposition because he will whiff. And if he isn't doing anything unsafe, then there is no way he should crack your defense. Ragna's pressure is terribad if he doesn't use any of his high risk moves (which is basically 90% of them). You are probably playing too one-dimensional/aggressive, and then when you get sealed you turn passive. You should be playing defensive aggression, and turning the heat on when you get a correct read, then just decide if you want to get a mixup set-up or set a trap (generally against dp). You can't force yourself into aggression in the middle of being hit by block strings, ragna is more offensively oriented, you gotta learn to punish and as ryoko said, turn up the heat when you get a good feed, remember 6+ magatama is bad news for ragna since he's a glass jaw and all. This match up is still 5-5, it only gets hard when you face a hakumen who subs with ragna now THEY are good, since they know when to expect you to counter n etc.
MisoSowee Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 It's also not a bad idea to surprise the opponent with a an IB on the first hit of their blockstring into a counter. Of course don't abuse it because they can jump to bait you, but at the same time if you predict THAT you might get an airthrow or maybe an air unblockable if they're careless (like hotaru).
ryokoalways Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Bladeofjustice, that's a bit incorrect. You are not in a defensive position only when you are blocking stuff. Considering Ragna's range and the effectiveness of 5B on block, at most distances you are in a defensive position even if no attacks are being thrown out. Defensive aggression is trying to win the position battle, and for Hakumen in this match-up you are trying to either get into point blank range or long range, as any distance between those two Ragna has pretty good advantage. The best way to do that is occasional kishuu, occasional airdash, and a lot of walking forward and backward. Also, at just outside of midrange, it's possible to catch most of Ragna's option at that range on reaction (The only risky thing to catch being 5C really). But don't make it a habit. Not to mention I doubt good players would ever do that anyways.
Sophisticat Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Again, a video would be a lot more helpful. Alright, from now on I'll try to get up a vid before asking for something specific. As far as general match-up goes, [...]. Stay on the ground. [...] And if he isn't doing anything unsafe, then there is no way he should crack your defense. [...] Okay, now I realize I might have simply been playing wrong. I always try to get in on Ragna and find it difficult to mount any sort of offense against him, which means I jump around a lot in this match. If playing defensive aggression is the way to go, then I'll get to working on that. DP isn't a problem, it just makes certain approaches harder. The Ragna knows I can counter with a heavy 6c CH combo, so it's not easy to bait either. His 6a will be less of a problem since I'll stop staying in the air too much. By far j.C, I mean he hits with the very tip of the hitbox. It makes 6a either clash or I miss-time it. I guess I'm just not using it right. You can't force yourself into aggression in the middle of being hit by block strings, ragna is more offensively oriented, you gotta learn to punish and as ryoko said, turn up the heat when you get a good feed, remember 6+ magatama is bad news for ragna since he's a glass jaw and all. This match up is still 5-5, it only gets hard when you face a hakumen who subs with ragna now THEY are good, since they know when to expect you to counter n etc. [...] The best way to do that is occasional kishuu, occasional airdash, and a lot of walking forward and backward. Also, at just outside of midrange, it's possible to catch most of Ragna's option at that range on reaction (The only risky thing to catch being 5C really). But don't make it a habit. Not to mention I doubt good players would ever do that anyways. Yeah, his 5b is a really good tool and he's going to take advantage of it. His normals in general are the pain of this match, and Ragnas who know Haku are just . I'm not good with reaction counters, so I keep those for in-between block-strings. Alright, I'll get to work on these things which hopefully make the match more manageable. It's also not a bad idea to surprise the opponent with a an IB on the first hit of their blockstring into a counter. Of course don't abuse it because they can jump to bait you, but at the same time if you predict THAT you might get an airthrow or maybe an air unblockable if they're careless (like hotaru). Not easy to set up, but I'll give it a shot. As always, thanks a lot for the info, guys. By the time CS rolls around I'll be sure to have a pro Haku on hand.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 thanks for the bits ryo, i definitely found jin a whole lot easier than ragna, and with this i can continue trolling hard with haku.
FullAutoDeath Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 thanks for the bits ryo, i definitely found jin a whole lot easier than ragna, and with this i can continue trolling hard with haku. I have it the other way around. Fighting Ragna seems simple compared to Jin.
A.X.I.S. Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 I have it the other way around. Fighting Ragna seems simple compared to Jin. with jin i get patient and if he tries to bait my 6A with a lol double jump i use 2C while he's coming down and take off 3k of his health.
itsme Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 I really find that j.D is one of the best thing in this matchup. Also, I'm always confused by Ragna's overhead kick. Is it counterable with 2D or 5D/6D?
Sophisticat Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 J.D sucks, Hotaru is a better option. His 6b is counterable with 5D/6D, but also 2b. The one to pick is the one that puts you closest/into the corner. Between 6D/2b, I pick 2b because 6D prorates and 2b directly goes into falling.C -> loop if next to the corner for good damage. EDIT: Forgot to add you can also do TK Hotaru, but I find this is riskier if you're not fast enough. Whatever the case, punish that 6b as hard as you can.
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