[Xrd 1.1] Venom gameplay discussion thread

[AznSpyderman]

El's cS destroyed me last night...

 

I have a question. The wiki says 5D has 3(2)3 active frames.

What does that mean?

Same with 2D as 1(15)8.

 

[DaiAndOh]

11 hours ago, TittyFOFO said:

Pretty much any Millia touch leads to knockdown lol.

I wasn't really trying to imply that none of the cast gets anything off of an AA. My point was moreso that Venom isn't all that far behind anyone else when it comes to AA rewards. CH 6P, 5S(c), and 2HS can all lead to a meterless 170-220ish damage on Sol with knockdown, depending on positioning. That fact, combined with us having one of the best AAs in the game, makes me think that we're doing just fine.

My main thing I want is Venom 6P>6HS to work on non-CH. Needs to rely on getting counterhits outside of when c.S works to have reward that's worth it (KD or damage). If it's not counterhit, and you're not in c.S range, you could get in big trouble for chaining into 6HS when they tech.

The main time Venom's AA's fail to get the job for me is Sol's j.HS where his feet seem to just disappear, and sometimes against Chipp? Might need to try to time things later, not too sure about the latter.

 

As for the 3(2)3 and such, I believe that's the gap between the hits.

[AznSpyderman]

9 minutes ago, DaiAndOh said:

My main thing I want is Venom 6P>6HS to work on non-CH. Needs to rely on getting counterhits outside of when c.S works to have reward that's worth it (KD or damage). If it's not counterhit, and you're not in c.S range, you could get in big trouble for chaining into 6HS when they tech.

The main time Venom's AA's fail to get the job for me is Sol's j.HS where his feet seem to just disappear, and sometimes against Chipp? Might need to try to time things later, not too sure about the latter.

 

As for the 3(2)3 and such, I believe that's the gap between the hits.

5D is multi-hits?

[DaiAndOh]

Well you said 2D! In the case of 5D, might be multiple hitboxes? Hmmm not too sure there.

[AznSpyderman]

 

Just now, DaiAndOh said:

Well you said 2D! In the case of 5D, might be multiple hitboxes? Hmmm not too sure there.

I understand it's early in the morning on a Friday... lol (10:40am)

35 minutes ago, AznSpyderman said:

El's cS destroyed me last night...

 

I have a question. The wiki says 5D has 3(2)3 active frames.

What does that mean?

Same with 2D as 1(15)8.

 

[TittyFOFO]

1 hour ago, DaiAndOh said:

My main thing I want is Venom 6P>6HS to work on non-CH. Needs to rely on getting counterhits outside of when c.S works to have reward that's worth it (KD or damage). If it's not counterhit, and you're not in c.S range, you could get in big trouble for chaining into 6HS when they tech.

The main time Venom's AA's fail to get the job for me is Sol's j.HS where his feet seem to just disappear, and sometimes against Chipp? Might need to try to time things later, not too sure about the latter.

 

As for the 3(2)3 and such, I believe that's the gap between the hits.

Yeah, 6P->6HS on normal hit would be nice. In situations where I don't expect to get a CH (catching techs and whatnot), I'll often do 6P, 2HS xx Carcass. 6P, 5HS xx DHM maybe also be a good idea depending on how high they are.

Not being able to 6P Sol's j.HS consistently is a pain, I'll agree. Nice thing is that as long as you don't get hit, the 5S(c) that you prolly started will beat out anything they stick out afterwards (aside from VV I assume), so you either get a free combo or pressure in a lot of cases.

[Pomparomp]

i thought i posted this yesterday, but I meant 6k as a followup to c.s. I was thinking about it earlier though and I'm probably just thinking about it too much in a vacuum, Venom probably shouldn't have big damage combos off normal hit antiairs when no one but like elphelt (:v) can reasonably contest the zoning.  Just having something simple and universal like 6p -> 6h to at least guarantee they can't try to tech forward into your face on normal hit would be nice.

[TittyFOFO]

I can't be the only one here that frequently finds myself in danger time with no real idea what to do. Our character doesn't really benefit from it as much as some others IMO, but mortal counters do open up some good meterless combo options off of our long range pokes. By canceling 5S(f), 2S, or even 6HS into 2K on hit, you can recover fast enough to dash or IAD in for a full combo. You'll have to confirm whether they're standing or crouching for optimum damage, but its not too difficult.

From a max range 6HS, you can follow up with IAD j.S, j.D into whatever. Here's a corner example:

 

[DaiAndOh]

I tend to buffer 66 after stuff and get more pokey once at neutral with Danger time.

Also cool is that when doing 2D, the mortal lets 2D S Carcass work from everywhere with a good amount of time to confirm, as well as an anti-air 2HS S Carcass work in all situations. Pretty neat if I say so myself!

[TittyFOFO]

I was convinced for some reason that you couldn't dash cancel MC hits. Goes to show how little I understand about danger time lol.

Faultless defense would be another option, in retrospect.

[DaiAndOh]

Yeah it's basically a free RC on hit. I don't think you can cancel into Blitz, but I've never tried (it would have some use with Rev charge blitz)

[AznSpyderman]

I've lost so many matches because of DangerTime...

 

Carry on. I'm just ranting.

[Pomparomp]

bears talked to me about spacing, f.s and taking advantage of an opponent already committed to something. It's probably basic stuff to longer FG players but it was really enlightening to me, so here it is mostly unedited.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Js_kqNJzyB7gM8O2hcAqe2KxaVYcNkMHIMMmRbCWETw/edit

[DaiAndOh]

I made a Venom guide! Reviewed by Blacksnake, I hope to transcribe it onto the wiki. In the meantime, enjoy!

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Since there's plenty of discussion of this going around on Twitter and Discord, I might as well put the jist of it here for posterity.

 

Revelator 1.03 saw Venom getting a buttload of buffs across the board. They are as follows:

 

– 6P
Active Frames increased from 4F to 7F*
Added Jump Cancel
Recovery reduced by 3F*

*NOTE: The animation is overall the same number of frames. These two changes simply mean that an extra 3 of what used to be recovery frames are now active.

– 5HS
Special Cancel window increased by 3F

– j.HS
Untechable Time increased from 14F to 16F

– Ball Summon
Tension gain increased from 50 to 75

– Stinger Aim
Tension gain increased from 150 to 250

– Carcass Raid
Tension gain increased from 150 to 200

– QV
Tension gain increased from 150 to 200

– Mad Struggle
Tension gain increased from 150 to 200

– Throw
Blitz Shield bug after Throw fixed
Burst bug after Throw fixed

 

So the big ones imo are massive meter gain buffs, jH getting longer untech time making both airdash bnbs easier and short combos (like corner airthrow, clS[1] jc jH) knock down consistently, and of course 6P becoming SOGOODHOLYSCHNIKES. The 5H cancel window increase is a little quality of life buff that will make stuff revolving around 5H late BH xx S CR easier, but not really game changing.

 

6P is CH confirmable into an IAD combo, and on non CH can do something like 6P jc jS jH for a knockdown at most heights. 6P is now also a super valuable combo tool when used in conjunction with a ball hit. The way I see it being used in that context is during something like this:

corner clS[3]866 jSHD 6H xx S QV, 6P BH IAD jSHD 6H xx Set

That same combo was still possible pre patch, but substituting 6P for a microdash 5P BH. It was character specific, and even then it was remarkably inconsistent. While it may not make the extra loop universal, it should be far easier to do on most of the cast.

Video example of the same concept off a throw:

 

 

So yeah, Venom is much improved, but not meta shifting. Should be neat to see what gets discovered with his new 6P.

[TittyFOFO]

Thanks SMF. I'll update the combo thread's original post tomorrow when I have a bit of time to dabble with things and confirm which characters they work on.

Edit: Nevermind, wrong thread. You suck lol