[CPE] V-13 Critique, Q&A, and Help Thread

[Koro_Kizama]

Nu has weak defense options, so she can even have trouble getting out of the corner against Terumi.

You just need to know how to deal with said characters pressure.

Also, by your logic, Valk should suck(along with Nu).

^This and I agree, looks like im gonna hafta bite the bullet and get prepared for the worst...

[Nakkiel]

Ragna matchup is not unfavorable and is slightly in Nu's favor.

 

His neutral hitbox is large (he is easy to zone), his pressure has multiple answers that Nu has access to (OD super, pressure resets with jumps are easy to anti air with 6A, dashing out of the corner or 623C, usage of fuzzy jump, barrier and IB barrier) and he is nowhere near as mobile as Nu can be.

 

His largest threat is footsie range of 5B/5C and you can definitely play around it, Nu has multiple options outside of Drive to contest characters within attack range. Carnage Scissors is also not some unstoppable force, stop using long startup/easy to react to specials and drives when he has 50 meter. Hakumen can do literally the same thing (and can ACTUALLY kill you in one combo) and that's still an awful matchup for him.

 

And I hate to say it but the JP MU database is irrelevant, the only v-13s currently worth watching are Gentarou and Yoshiki. Here, watch him 5-3 a Ragna.

 

[NTR_]

What are the common oki/setplay situations you guys set up? The only one im familiar with is the post 214dc > tk cresent/low. 

[pokemonblaze234]

What are the common oki/setplay situations you guys set up? The only one im familiar with is the post 214dc > tk cresent/low. 

You can do 236D~C oki, all the I know about is that it catches rolls, I think, tbh, I never use it and idk what it's used for, lol

There's 3C>236D~214B>214D for spike oki

Regular 5D/4D meaty

TK j.214[D]

I'm pretty sure you can OS rolls off of some knockdowns with 2B~5C>5D, I think that's works fine, but I'm not sure on that one.

And you can do X>236D~214A>5DD>2DD>jcODc>214D66 for cross up Spike Chaser oki

[Koro_Kizama]

You can do 236D~C oki, all the I know about is that it catches rolls, I think, tbh, I never use it and idk what it's used for, lol

There's 3C>236D~214B>214D for spike oki

Regular 5D/4D meaty

TK j.214[D]

I'm pretty sure you can OS rolls off of some knockdowns with 2B~5C>5D, I think that's works fine, but I'm not sure on that one.

And you can do X>236D~214A>5DD>2DD>jcODc>214D66 for cross up Spike Chaser oki

`

What are the common oki/setplay situations you guys set up? Th`e only one im familiar with is the post 214dc > tk cresent/low. 

I found it best to do oki setups after a >214Aor214B~5DD~2DD~6DD~2DD~TKCres.[D] (2147D) midscreen

or

               |--- TKCres. (2147D) corner/-high low mix-

>6B~2C~|Alt.

               |---3C~214D-C~6C~236[D]~5DD~2DD~6DD~2DD~TKCres.[D] (2147D) corner

               |continue combo^

[pokemonblaze234]

Doing 5DD>TK j.214[D] is better than 2DD>TK j.214[D]
So do something like stuff>236D~214B>5DD>2DD>5DD>TK j.214[D]

[Koro_Kizama]

Doing 5DD>TK j.214[D] is better than 2DD>TK j.214[D]
So do something like stuff>236D~214B>5DD>2DD>5DD>TK j.214[D]

I like this one, also if lucky sometimes an oki could come from a well placed 3C~236D-C to [block string]~2C~2147[D] rapid if need be ^ ^

[Starkaiser]

But  jp MU data ara what general pro are playing. If you gonna watch only specific best Nu player then we have to watch him fight with strongest Ragna player too then?   Would be unfair to be selective watching Nu better player fight weaker Ragna player.

So when the best Nu player you know fight with best ragna player then who win? That should be the better way to decide MU result rather than having a vote or use general says.  Because Ragna players range from noob to very pro. 

[Nakkiel]

Yoshiki also beats Yutta more often than he loses. Not sure what else to tell you, you just seem to want to complain about Ragna.

[Koro_Kizama]

I saw most of Yoshiki-sama's matches and yea he can stand a mean ground just from his info alone, everyone should train harder even him too.

[NTR_]

How do you guys weigh Burst vs. OD in match ups? The Invincibility on activation makes it a fair option at closer ranges when you're being pressured. In the set Sg posted Yoshiki tended towards burst.

[pokemonblaze234]

How do you guys weigh Burst vs. OD in match ups? The Invincibility on activation makes it a fair option at closer ranges when you're being pressured. In the set Sg posted Yoshiki tended towards burst.

Burst gives you space, enough space for you to have the advantage, so if anything, you should burst, unless like, you wanna use OD to kill or something.

[Koro_Kizama]

Burst gives you space, enough space for you to have the advantage, so if anything, you should burst, unless like, you wanna use OD to kill or something.

don't forget to save your burst though, you don't want to prematurely use it willy nilly, if you get comboed just take it but be sure that the combo don't kill you and also don't get burst baited also.

[pokemonblaze234]

don't forget to save your burst though, you don't want to prematurely use it willy nilly, if you get comboed just take it but be sure that the combo don't kill you and also don't get burst baited also.

Well, I always burst asap once I get hit so I can create space and do my thing, but it's not like I burst when the opponent gets a 2A/5A starter or at dumb times

[Nakkiel]

You will find yourself bursting way more often than you use OD as a reversal. OD > Super can be beaten by every character in the game, whereas there are spots in combos where bursting is guaranteed.

 

As was mentioned already, it creates space for v-13. Most common spot to burst is a high damage combo or a combo that will carry you to the corner with knockdown.

[someonewhodied]

Burst is preferable in 99% of situations. In the rare cases where you both have no meter and no gravity, you can use OD to make a different combo work

 

X>3C>ODc>66B>6A>2147D44>j214[D]>214D>66B>5C>214DC214B>236[D]>66C66>3C>Super

 

It generally builds enough meter for you to kill someone with the super at the end.

 

 

Otherwise, you need space, you need to not get cornered, you need the threat of being able to burst so you limit what moves your opponent can punish you with.

[BlackJustin13]

Is there much use for grounded Calamity Sword? It seems like it comes out at a distance now compared to other iterations of Nu/Lambda and would be close to useless as a reversal.Yet air Calamity Sword remains the same,so I'm not going to complain too much,but I am still curious why this happened.

[Nakkiel]

It was changed to remove a reversal option at close range, If you want an invulnerable reversal, you now must use OD + Super to have it hit close enough.

It is still invincible normally though, so at certain ranges/setups it still has a use.

[pokemonblaze234]

I'm pretty sure it has less invul compared to CP1.1, but it isn't like it matters /that/ much.

[Nakkiel]

It's still 1-11, same as before. The startup is 10+1 so it can trade.

[SyncNatsyu]

Its been awhile since I've seen our frame data charts but does j.calamity have the same invul?  Due to the spacing ground calamity has I tend to TK it(usually tked it before in previous versions too cause j.calamity had more dmg but now they are the same).  The dead spot ground calamity has though is fun to use to punish certain attacks.

while i'm asking things do you guys/gals burst bait or let them burst and reset to neutral since we have the advantage at that range anyway?

I typically don't bait them unless im going to be bursted into the corner.

Edited September 10, 2015 by SyncNatsyu

[Nakkiel]

No, air Calamity Sword does not retain the invuln and even if it did, using it in the method you described is pointless. There is jump startup in the game that you can be hit out of so it would no longer serve the purpose as a reversal. You're better off using the 50 meter to Counter Assault or since you have time to tiger knee something, simply jump out of the pressure instead.

 

 

v-13 doesn't typically need to bother baiting and against smarter opponents, it's impossible. 236D~C > 214A is a free burst, as is bursting the startup of 214D. Her neutral is fearsome and a lot of routes are burst safe (full drive enders, namely)

[KwRIOT]

So I'm messing around in Training Mode with Nu even though I don't use her.

Doing raw 236D > 214A > 5D is simple enough.

But for the life of me, I can't get the last 5D to come out in this corner combo:

236[D] > 2DD > 5D > 6D > 2DD > 236D > 214A > 5D

The timing seems completely different and I don't get it. Help?

[Nakkiel]

I'm not sure where you learned that route from, lol.

 

You can not gatling her Drive that many times. You have 4 gatlings, not counting followup drives. You need to return to neutral or RC to get restore gatling options, Gravity Well cancels do not reset them. So your combo is this:

 

236[D] > 2DD (1st set) > 5D (2nd) > 6D (3rd) > 2DD (empty) > 236D > 214A > 5D (does not work)

 

Use this to practice corner 236D instead:

 

xxx > 214D~C > 214A > 5C > 6C > 214D > 5DD > 2DD > 236D > 214A > 6DD > 2DD

Edited September 16, 2015 by Nakkiel

[KwRIOT]

Thanks for the reply! That explains it.

I got the idea from her Challenge 20 sample solution. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26237962   

It should go:

236[D] > 5D > 2D > 6D > 2DD > j.2D > j.6DD > j.214D~C > j.C > 2DD > 5D > 6D > 2DD > 236D > 214A > 5D > 2D > ....

Knowing what I know now, the A.I. returns to neutral inbetween the 2DD and 236D, aka a pain in the butt to do.