[CPEX] Rachel Alucard General Discussion

[gamester]

I find you have to go careful with 5/2A stuff into 5CD > 6C > J.C stuff, it can not hit properly on a character like Makoto (had troubles the other day). That or you have to be very close to the character because I find it's hard to get all 6C hits in. You could end 6C earlier with the j.C though.

2A starter (depending on the size of the character and if you have the wind stock) I like doing these two routes:

(Start of route) 2A > 5B > 6B > jc9 > j.3D > j.B > j.C > into the following 3 routes

(Branch/Option 1) > 5BD > 6A > 4B > (dash) > 5CC > Summon

(Branch/Option 2) > 5B > 3C8D > 5CC > Summon

(Branch/Option 3 with 50 heat) > 5B > 3C > BBL > 5CC > Summon

 

Mind you I haven't had time to test/play against every character in the game :/

 

[TD]

Should work on everyone

[gamester]

Must be me then, I didn't spend long with 5A/2A routes recently due to time. I'll have a blast tomorrow as I have a day off to play more and sort things out

[TD]

have a 4b sideswap combo. Does like 3 k and costs 2 wind, get 1 back.

 

4b 5c 6cd jc dash 6a delay jc 2d dj2c (lv2) delay 236b dash 3c(1) 214c dash 6a 236a dash 3c(1) 214c dash 5cc summon

Also, I have 11gb worth of data from playing this game with Rachel. I was about to just wipe my harddrive, but if people are interested maybe I will start uploading them instead and deleting them. 

 

[GoBL1N]

Man, took the words right out of my mouth, i also had trouble with this on makoto. It messed me up so bad assuming it wouldn't drop but it did...a lot. Thanks! I will look into those 2a routes when I get a chance.

[GoBL1N]

have a 4b sideswap combo. Does like 3 k and costs 2 wind, get 1 back.

 

4b 5c 6cd jc dash 6a delay jc 2d dj2c (lv2) delay 236b dash 3c(1) 214c dash 6a 236a dash 3c(1) 214c dash 5cc summon

Also, I have 11gb worth of data from playing this game with Rachel. I was about to just wipe my harddrive, but if people are interested maybe I will start uploading them instead and deleting them. 

 

I was curious about your jc 2d j2c lvl 2 route I was under the impression that anywhere that worked, you could replace it with jc[hold] jc 2d dash 6a.

Any reason why you wouldn't do this? I'd imagine its the same minus the wind use.

[GoBL1N]

I find you have to go careful with 5/2A stuff into 5CD > 6C > J.C stuff, it can not hit properly on a character like Makoto (had troubles the other day). That or you have to be very close to the character because I find it's hard to get all 6C hits in. You could end 6C earlier with the j.C though.

2A starter (depending on the size of the character and if you have the wind stock) I like doing these two routes:

(Start of route) 2A > 5B > 6B > jc9 > j.3D > j.B > j.C > into the following 3 routes

(Branch/Option 1) > 5BD > 6A > 4B > (dash) > 5CC > Summon

(Branch/Option 2) > 5B > 3C8D > 5CC > Summon

(Branch/Option 3 with 50 heat) > 5B > 3C > BBL > 5CC > Summon

 

Mind you I haven't had time to test/play against every character in the game :/

 

Your certain these routes work on a crouching opponent? I was specifically struggling with confirming off a 2a/5a when crouched. 

[TD]

I was curious about your jc 2d j2c lvl 2 route I was under the impression that anywhere that worked, you could replace it with jc[hold] jc 2d dash 6a.

Any reason why you wouldn't do this? I'd imagine its the same minus the wind use.

jc hold route in this case does slightly less damage since 4b is used very early in the combo. J2c level 2 route also lets Rachel stay on the ground a little while longer than the jc hold route, so more wind and corner carry: with Rachel's back to the corner, this combo can take the foe to either corner on the screen, for example (though with different Oki situations).

 

2a crouching combos

2a 5b 5c 3c 236a/ summon (windless)

2a 5b 6b j3d ja ja 5a 5b 3c works on farther opponents like tager and hakumen and also leads to some gimmicks

2a 5b 5c 6cd jc 236a dash 3c(1) 214c dash 4b dash 5cc probably the best 1 wind combo, needs point blank

2a 5b 6b 3c 6d 8d dash 6a 4b dash 5cc most reliable long range combo, 2 winds though.

 

dknt forget to use stray poles in combos. 214c combos from 6b, 5c, 3c and let you do combos windless. Like 2a 5b 5c 214c dash 6a 236a dash 3c 214c 4b 5cc. Windless 2k and 1 wind regen.

Edited August 13, 2015 by TD

[GoBL1N]

jc hold route in this case does slightly less damage since 4b is used very early in the combo. J2c level 2 route also lets Rachel stay on the ground a little while longer than the jc hold route, so more wind and corner carry: with Rachel's back to the corner, this combo can take the foe to either corner on the screen, for example (though with different Oki situations).

 

2a crouching combos

2a 5b 5c 3c 236a/ summon (windless)

2a 5b 6b j3d ja ja 5a 5b 3c works on farther opponents like tager and hakumen and also leads to some gimmicks

2a 5b 5c 6cd jc 236a dash 3c(1) 214c dash 4b dash 5cc probably the best 1 wind combo, needs point blank

2a 5b 6b 3c 6d 8d dash 6a 4b dash 5cc most reliable long range combo, 2 winds though.

 

dknt forget to use stray poles in combos. 214c combos from 6b, 5c, 3c and let you do combos windless. Like 2a 5b 5c 214c dash 6a 236a dash 3c 214c 4b 5cc. Windless 2k and 1 wind regen.

Youre right I forgot to consider that 4b was the starter, can't do jc hold jc cuz you stabilize that with 6a 4b which has smp...it would drop immediately. I will have to work on that then.

Good reminder about the lightning poles! Also thanks these all seem like solid routes I will have to try them out.

[gamester]

Also, I have 11gb worth of data from playing this game with Rachel. I was about to just wipe my harddrive, but if people are interested maybe I will start uploading them instead and deleting them. 

It would be a fantastic if you're up to uploading them

EDIT:

OK. It's taking a very long time to sort the Video Threads Match Up Links and get them back up since the forum update. If you wish to watch any of the videos in the meantime I have put all my back up into a pastebin. Just copy and Paste the URL link and it'll take you to that match

 http://pastebin.com/5K3yBJ5P 

Sorry it's taking so long to repair the damage done since the forum update.

Edited August 18, 2015 by gamester

[GoBL1N]

Maybe I missed the memo but I'm having trouble with fatal counter follow up. Does the classic:

ex: 5c [fatal] > frog > chair > 5b > 6a > BnB

followup not work anymore? I just tried it in practice mode for a while and its not working.

[Soniti]

You have to do 5c frog 8d (dash) chair now in Extend. Make sure to do the 8d sufficiently late.

If you don't have wind you can just do frog 3c because 3c SMP is gone.

[GoBL1N]

Sigh...so its not just 6a counter hit anymore also our fatal requires a wind stock now...Thank you. For now I'm gonna try the frog 3c route until I am comfortable with it. after frog 3c is it pretty standard from there? dash 5b 6a 236a 3c iris 6a 4b 5cc?

[Soniti]

Yep, that'll work on almost everyone.

[TD]

Has anyone been watching the loketest streams? Has any Rachel's been spotted?

[Monarch]

Amane vs. Rachel [Second Loketest]

Ragna vs. Rachel [Second Loketest]

[GoBL1N]

I was having some trouble the other day against a ragna player, after a typical 5b 5cd 6c 6a 4b 5b 6a 236a the lobel either misses because he is too high or the lobel hits way too early. I'm sure the physics of Ragna are just different than some of the other chars I land this more consistently on...Is there another route I should be going against ragna for higher success rate? Its been pretty low for me lately against him because this keeps happening. 

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Sounds like you need to add some delays. If Ragna is too high, make sure you delay your 5B after 4B dash so that he falls down lower. If you hit Ragna too early, delay the 236A a bit after 6A.

[GoBL1N]

Thank you delaying a bit is helping but it seems in the corner now hes not floating high enough -____- so the lobel is hitting him way too early. What are you guys doing on ragna players if after 5cc? lets say you get the overhead ja jb 5cc in the corner, what are you guys doing after that? for me, 5b 6a 236a is not working.

[Kuuhaku]

Thank you delaying a bit is helping but it seems in the corner now hes not floating high enough -____- so the lobel is hitting him way too early. What are you guys doing on ragna players if after 5cc? lets say you get the overhead ja jb 5cc in the corner, what are you guys doing after that? for me, 5b 6a 236a is not working.

Something like 5B > 6A > 4B is what I use. 4B gives better knockdown. I can mess around with the other route to give suggestions to adjustments when I get a chance, but generally it seems like 4B is preferable as a combo ender in the corner.

[NowItsAngeTime]

I've been trying to use Rachel better. I have some questions regarding her:

• In general it seems better to save her meter for Distortions as opposed to RC right? Baden Baden for continuing combos and Tempest Dhalia for occasional neutral pressure?
• In general in neutral you should be throwing out her various projectiles for pressure with sometimes going in for normal pressure to get the character in to the corner for wall cling?
• Your main way of zoning should be with Lobelia right? A version seems best due to lowest start/endtime? Though you could mix B and C depending on distance, same with air versions.
• in general you should probably be trying detonating Lobelia during combos for better damage? Maybe only detonate lobelia in neutral if you suspect someone won't be blocking at particular moment?
• Throwing out George seems best on knockdown.. but can it be good in neutral? Even if George gets blocked you can throw out an overheard/low depending how they block?
• Most videos I see have players use Pumpkin sometimes when jumping the air this is so make her approach better or prevent opponent approach? Sometimes pumpkin is used on knockdown, is this to prevent a counter assault from them?
• I've been having trouble finding use for Beezle Lotus/Bats. it seem like it can be kinda used for zoning but like maybe only every so once in a while?
• What reason would you use 3[C] over 3C during combos/mixups?
• Her best non-special pokes are 6B, 5B, 2B, 2A, right?
• When you should you decide to ground combo end with 5CC as opposed to 3C and vice versa?

 

[TD]

I've been trying to use Rachel better. I have some questions regarding her:

• In general it seems better to save her meter for Distortions as opposed to RC right? Baden Baden for continuing combos and Tempest Dhalia for occasional neutral pressure?

yes

• In general in neutral you should be throwing out her various projectiles for pressure with sometimes going in for normal pressure to get the character in to the corner for wall cling?

yes

• Your main way of zoning should be with Lobelia right? A version seems best due to lowest start/endtime? Though you could mix B and C depending on distance, same with air versions.

a lobelia/ air a lobelia is one of her better "pokes" that is not so reliant on pumpkin or wind but is still strengthened by their presence. B and c lobelias are the main fullscreen harassment because they do their job without wind and creates hurdles for the opponent even on whiff. In general, if you can't summon or the foe is in a targeted spot, yes, lobelia with pumpkin support is ideal.

 

• in general you should probably be trying detonating Lobelia during combos for better damage? Maybe only detonate lobelia in neutral if you suspect someone won't be blocking at particular moment?

sword iris in combos won't really up the damage but they do up combo time which means more wind and more hits overtime for meter. Best save for the coup de grace in the corner with a combo ending with Baden Baden and 1-3 poles.

• Throwing out George seems best on knockdown.. but can it be good in neutral? Even if George gets blocked you can throw out an overheard/low depending how they block?
• george does his own thing so the less wind you have the more priority he has over other summons. Basically the Dow will try to kill him or jump over him, avoiding them entirely. If they try to kill him it gives you time to summon something, even another frog, or if you have stuff out already or wind you can punish them. If they try to run past or jump over him, predict which angle they will approach and send everything you have in that direction.
•  
• Most videos I see have players use Pumpkin sometimes when jumping the air this is so make her approach better or prevent opponent approach? Sometimes pumpkin is used on knockdown, is this to prevent a counter assault from them?

pumpkin is so good with wind that people are always trying to get it out first. It prevents and supports, and gives opportunity to pressure. Yes on wake up pumpkin will beat dps and counter assaults if you do the OS (5d4ab). Still need to be careful

• I've been having trouble finding use for Beezle Lotus/Bats. it seem like it can be kinda used for zoning but like maybe only every so once in a while?
• beelze lotus, 22a, is useless. Barrel lotus, 22b, is good. It makes her 5d blow harder. The wind will also automatically home on the opponent, always pushing them opposite their movement direction if you press 5d. In addition all of get wind able summons will go farther than normal with 5d. 236a 5d becomes really good with barrel. Lastly bats still count as poles while equipped. Sword iris will be available until they disappear, though the Lightning is unreliable at worst.
•  
• What reason would you use 3[C] over 3C during combos/mixups? There isn't much reason to hold 3c. Maybe to keep the foe from trying to jump since 3c without a summon is very close to the end of pressure for Rachel.
•  
• Her best non-special pokes are 6B, 5B, 2B, 2A, right? 5b and 2b aren't really pokes. The rest are. Even though they aren't normals, 236a and j236a are also good "pokes" because they are fast.
•  
• When you should you decide to ground combo end with 5CC as opposed to 3C and vice versa?

corner push comes first. If the foe won't end up in the corner, and you don't have wind or they are very good full screen (fighting a nu, mu, hazama etc), 3c is better for getting another hit and combo going. Usually it's preference but always if you have a chance, corner push first.

 

Answers in there somewhere

 

 

[JYaham95]

Hi, I'm new to Blazblue and I want to pick up Rachel and Litchi as my characters. I've looked at the Dustloop Wiki for Rachel and got an idea of her moves but im still a little unsure how to play her. Should i be learning how her mixups work, or learning basic BnBs? I just don't know where to start and it seems a bit daunting. Any help would be nice

[gamester]

Welcome to the board! Sorry for taking so long to reply, I'm also not very confident in explaining things so my apologies in advance.

As a first go to point (if you haven't seen it yet) is the Rachel Gameplay Guide by Sakaku, which is still relevant, it has some slight out of date info here and there but overall it's still a fantastic read if you're starting to learn Rachel as it covers your mentioned points, approaching and defence 

Here's the link to the Guide: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/4959-cp-rachel-gameplay-guide/

Though when I've played Rachel, I tend to learn her BnBs first and get a feel for them, for when I do open someone up with x move in your Mix Up you know roughly what to do in order to set up your oki. 

I'm not sure what else I can explain/cover that's not in that guide from memory? We basically want to set up traps, try and get our opponents to make mistakes and punish them for it. I hope this post has helped a little but if you have any questions or anything on your mind at all. Feel free to ask again here or an Gameplay Q&A 

[MrAbyss]

When I do instant overheads, or general pressure, should I be jumping in with 9, and then 2d?