Maho Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 It's not even just the DP that is a threat for double gadget setups, if the Mu hasn't done anything and so the second gadget whiffs, it's a free CH 3C from point blank, which on Tager mean 4.5k to 6k+ punish (my best combo in this situation is 6754dmg with 0% heat start to be exact) So well i'd say the Tager better have 50 heat when going for a double gadget so the fear ot the 720 make the Mu do something, or else it can be quite a risk for him.
Heroic_Legacy Posted August 16, 2010 Author Posted August 16, 2010 3C 2B 6A...6C 214D cancel...Kill Tager's fat ass from here.
TD Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Rachel never ever had to zone Tager in CT. I don't see the point. Double gadget makes you our bitch btw. Right. She never HAD to. She decided to rushdown, and with that caused risked that could have led to her loss. I fought with LostSoul, and although the match was in Rachel's favor, he made countless comebacks by defending and waiting. Mu needs not take risks and can win. And close to 7k from 3c? l'm skeptical. l'm sure 214d whiff combos do not get that high.
Maho Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Actually it's a bit more specific than that, there are combos that are actually only possible in this exact situation, thanks to Tager big sprite we can get 6A to otg after CH 3C, and thanks to the momentum of the whiffed gadget, we can do 6A > 6B > 6A there. So here the different options depending on your screen position : - CH 3C > 6A > 6B > 6A > 214D > 66A > 6B > 66A > j2C > 662B > 6A > 6C > nD > 632146C : midscreen combo, 6073 dmg and 38% heat gain before super. - CH 3C > (6A > 6B > 6A > j2C) x 2 > 6A > 6B > 6A > 632146C : corner combo, 6201 dmg and 41% heat gain before super. - CH 3C > 6A > 6B > 6A > 6C > 214D > 66A > 6B > 66A > j2C (now in corner) > 6A > 6B > 6A > jC > j2C > 2B > 5B > 632146C : 6754 dmg, the combo gives you exactly 50% heat for the super.
TD Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 Wow, okay... l've seen one of those around too, l think on nico. Well they are legit, so l apologize.
Maho Posted August 17, 2010 Posted August 17, 2010 I forgot to say that the corner one can be done from a "standard" close CH 3C on Tager (even if i don't see that happen a lot, 3C is really to risky against him), anywhere on the screen the classic CH 3C combo on Tager with omohikane ender does 5.5 to 5.7k.
mundus Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Remember Mu has a DP, Gadget isn't the best against her if she has meter. Besides, unlike lambda Mu can throw her rocks and run why they keep Tager suppressed, whereas lambda must commit to the projectile. This is an awful matchup for Tager, Mu is only in danger if she's mag'd or she gets greedy (my problem). DP is very very very risky, i punished a Mu that did DP twice with a 720 the first time i just blocked it 720, 2nd time i know he was gonna try and rapid cancel it so i backdashed 720. Also you will get magnetized unless the Tager player sucks hard.
TD Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 They must have been bad if they dp RC'd just to rush you, a Tager, down. With Mu.
FlyingVe Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Gadget is still not a huge issue as Mu has a very good backdash. The DP just gives her another option. The Mag does shut down alot of her air game even if she escapes.
TD Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Gadget is still not a huge issue as Mu has a very good backdash. The DP just gives her another option. The Mag does shut down alot of her air game even if she escapes. Exactly. Which is why i'm confused, why anyone would risky dp for shitty damage and space, rather than 90% safe backdash for space.
mundus Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Both 5D and 720 beats the backdash, so i wouldn't say 90% safe.
FlyingVe Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Nothing beats all Gadget options (Save ragna RC DP). I wouldn't gadget a character who's escape routes cover so many of Tager's options. If you succeed you get to re-zone Tager. i'm more afraid of 2D and 4D enders as they put you in a much less black and white situation.
Maho Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 You can add 6C and spark to the list of moves that beat backdash, there Tager gets 3 to 3.5k back into gadget again, so backdash isn't that safe.
TD Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Both 5D and 720 beats the backdash, so i wouldn't say 90% safe. l know 5d works. But any Mu that backdashes after and waits for your response, could easily react to the super flash by jumping. Even still, DP is muuuch less safe. Oh yes. Tager's 2d while magnetized is really bad (well this is more of a general thing) if caught off guard. 5c works on reaction only...
FlyingVe Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 We can sit here and discuss all the gadget options, but the fact remains that Gadget is a guessing game and it is possible for Tager to guess right. The fact that mu has a good backdash and a DP in addition to other options makes her do above average in Gadget. Alot of the moves Tager has that beat her options (5D, 6C, 720, spark) are not moves that Tager is going to want to risk off Gadget unless he really has you figured out.
mundus Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Are you saying that you can backdash and then jump from 720? Since you can't you will get caught mid animation, unless Mu's backdash is better than Lambdas which i doubt or are you saying that you wait and see what Tager does and then backdash? since that pretty much ruins the point with backdash now does it? Also if Tager has a spark he can just wait and then spark your backdash on reaction.
TD Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 We can sit here and discuss all the gadget options, but the fact remains that Gadget is a guessing game and it is possible for Tager to guess right This. He can guess right, he can guess wrong. ln the end neither party is/will be wrong, so let's just dead this one frn. In general, Mu only has to worry about SB, being magnetized, and close range. Since the former two pretty much go together and happens say twice a round, and the latter happens when the former(s) happen...
Synthesis Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Considering that Tager can guess correctly when he gets on you is like saying I can win if I guess correctly. Guessing can go both ways, and in this case, Mu benefits the most from guessing correctly. If she does, she goes back to zoning and forces Tager to run the gauntlet again. Because of this option, Tager MUST make many less mistakes than Mu when he gets in, and since that is the case and Mu can react everything Tager does while zoning, this gives her the advantage by a large amount. We aren't saying it's impossible for Tager to win, but because his only means of mixup is a guessing game and Mu has so many options out of it, I'd place this at 7-3. His chances to win aren't great, but it isn't terrible. He just had to consistently guess correctly.
FlyingVe Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 7-3 sounds about right, Mu can zone Tager and is solid up close. However, just so you know 7-3 IS terrible, it might even be Tager's worst matchup. The trick for Mu players is just not to get greedy. Be content to just hold him off. What's he gonna do? Run after you? lol.
Synthesis Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 Mu players need to also keep in mind that although the matchup might be 7-3, this is just a chance to win based off skill level. If two players are of an even skill level, the Mu has a 70% chance to win (with proper matchup experience)
TD Posted August 18, 2010 Posted August 18, 2010 CT rearing her pretty face. RC v. TG 7-3. No risks and you already won. I will admit however, l like rushing down. Fuck 360/720, l ain't respecting that shit. Sure it's pretty ignorant, but it's my aggression that's going to get op's blocking. And if Tager is blocking me up close, scared to 360, the match is miiiine! >=)
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