[AC] Not sure if this should go in one of the stickies,but.....

[EtherFang777]

Alright,some combo questions about Johnny. Firstly, when you chain a jackhound after a 2D, do you expert players MC the 2D and from the MC do the jackhound, or is it faster/more effective to just do a neutral jackhound after 2D? Also, what are some effective combo followups after nailing a 2D, jackhound? Secondly, after doing the standard air combo: 6P, j.p, j.k, j.s, d.j.s., j.hs, KJFRC I just cant seem to nail a combo after it. I dont know whether afterwards you have to hit with something in the neutral air position and then press up + forward like you do to double jump and continue the first air combo or whether you can just press 2 or 3 neutral attack buttons after the FRC and then double jump to continue it? So, in simpler terms, after doing 6P, j.p, j.k, j.s, d.j.s., j.hs, KJFRC do you either: j.p, j.k, j.s then press up and forward and continue with j.s, j.s, j.d, ensenga for instance? Or, do you j.p, THEN press up and forward while doing j.k, j.s, j.s, j.d, ensenga?

[waraboushi]

If you have MFLV2 or 3, you can do MSJH after 2D, to increase recovery time, but in MFLV1, just do the normal JH, due to low MC recovery. some things I use are: 2D, JH/MSJH... -(2P), 5K, c.S, 5HS, coin -(2P), 5K, c.S, 5HS, LV2MF(P), any air combo -(2P), c.S, 5HS, DBT~DB (you can jump install, FRC, and continue the combo too) -(2P), c.S, 5HS, LV3MF(P), coin, MSJH, mist (coinjack combo) use 2P for chars who fall quickly after air killer joker FRC, there are lots of options, but the most used (they deal the most damage) are: KJ FRC.... -falling j.S, JC, j.K, j.S, j.D, Ensenga (bread and butter, S(jc)KPKDE works as well, since S(jc)KSDE miss in some cases) -immediate j.HS, j.D, Ensenga (almost same damage as above, to confirm the hit) -immediate j.HS, DB (knockdown) -falling j.S, JC, j.S, j.HS, j.D, Ensenga (char-specific, more damage) -IAD, j.K, j.S, j.D, Enkasu (good 1hit combo) -falling j.HS, j.D, Enkasu (good too) using too much j.P on air combos reduces the damage a lot

[EtherFang777]

Okay,so you said you do a falling j.s in order to connect after a KJFRC...so when you're inputting the buttons, do you delay the slash button just a little bit after the FRC is complete, or do you input them all at once like the rest of the air combo before and after it? Secondly, is the MSJH level 2 faster to cancel after 2D than a normal MSJH? I was trying what you said and using a neutral jackhound right after 2D works much better (at level 1, I was trying) since it connects smoothly, but when I tried to do a level 1 2D + MC->MSJH, it took me many tries and it doesnt count as another hit in the combo. Does that drastically change when you do level 2, or is it just better overall to use the neutral jackhound since its faster?

[waraboushi]

Exactly. Since j.S has a straight hitbox, doing too early may miss the falling target If you input the j.S after the FRC in the natural rhythm of the air combo, it does the trick too the air dash combos and instant j.HS breaks a little this rhythm, since FRC has no action recovery, making them a little more complicated the JH issue you tried to do is the point I said first. Mist canceling on LV1 doesn't give much advantage, and you can't combo the MSJH. This drastically changes once you're in LV2 or LV3, where the frame recovery allows you to combo lots of things 2D to MSJH in LV2 or 3, is better because you recovery faster(more damaging options, less prorate), startup is faster and more free fall time for the opponent, but in MFLV1, just stick to the normal JH. to get used to 2D, MSJH at level 2/3, the combo 6HS, MSJH helps you getting the hang of it then do 5HS, MSJH and f.S, MSJH. 2D, MSJH will become really easy to do

[Honnou]

I don't believe that info about Jackhound is correct. And the frame data doesn't have any notes on it either.

http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/johnny.html

Being in lvl 2 or 3 only makes the startup of the Jackhound faster, not the recovery. If this is wrong, please show me. :|

[waraboushi]

hmm, yes, honnou is right about the recovery time of jackhound (all versions has the same recovery properties) let's put frame notes (MSJH values assuming fastest input): -2D to JH goes: (2D hit)+13F startup+2F hit+35F recovery (13 frames until hit, 46F float) -2D to MSJH(LV1) goes: (2D hit)+9F MC startup+6F MSJH startup+2F hit+35F recovery (15 frames until hit, 51F float) -2D to MSJH(LV2) goes: (2D hit)+6F MC startup+6F MSJH startup+2F hit+35F recovery (12 frames until hit, 51F float) -2D to MSJH(LV3) goes: (2D hit)+4F MC startup+6F MSJH startup+2F hit+35F recovery (10 frames until hit, 51F float) it doesn't really change the fact that MSJH is best to use, due to less proration and more untechable time, but what I really don't know is if the opponent floats higher than in JH I always had the impression that I could nail moves faster after a MSJH, maybe is just me... Thanks honnou, for pointing it out! there's a cool 50% tension coinjack combo using 2D to MSDJH (only possible at MFLV3, tho) -2D, MSDJH, 5HS, LV3MF(P), coin, JH or MSJH, mist

[4r5]

You 2D them, they get hit, they're in the air, and they start descending to the ground. The reason MSJH is easier to link off of is because the startup is faster. The faster startup enables JH to connect while they are higher up in the air. They get launched higher, giving you more time to link a move before they hit the ground.

[EtherFang777]

So irregardless of anything it's just better to master using MSJH after 2D than a neutral jackhound?

[Newjack]

Yes. I'm terrible at doing the MSJH XD. O well, practice makes perfect.

[EtherFang777]

Yes.

I'm terrible at doing the MSJH XD. O well, practice makes perfect.

I dont seem to see the benefit of cancelling into a MSJH after a 2D over doing a neutral jackhound after a 2D. Everytime I do the MSJH after 2D it never pops the target back up again, whether its potemkin or ky, but everytime I do the neutral jackhound after 2D it's always faster and it always lands me in the perfect spot to continue comboing. Any advice on this?

[Mitsurugi]

Kind of an old post, but if you haven't found an answer : MSJH and JH leaves you at the same spot as it travels the same distance. MSJH may be slower to input but it has less startup, meaning it comes out faster. Try against a light character, Millia for instance. You'll see you have to MSJH in order to get score a knockdown. If you JH only, she'll be able to tech.