[CS1] Makoto vs. Bang

[Phoeniks]

So I haven't played Makoto yet but I have at least a little understanding of how she works and Bang is one of my mains.

This seems like an awesome matchup to be quite honest. Both Makoto and Bang have mix-up options, both are fast aggressive characters, and both can deal a lot of damage.

Here's the problem though: Bang's a versatile character. He can approach safely, he has decent reach, and he's fast as hell. He can do great damage off of any random hit, whether it comes from mixup or from a j.5a. Makoto, on the other hand, can do even more damage, but she needs to focus more on certain attacks and lose any versatility that she had. The good news is that she builds heat like no tomorrow and that her supers are great. If Bang slips up even a little bit (predictable mixup, over-extension) Makoto can make him regret picking up a controller.

Summary: Bang is versatile and can control the match if he's careful. However, if he messes up Makoto can capitalize very well.

I'd give it a 5.5 v 4.5 in Bang's favor.

[farranpoison]

Haha what.

Please, PLEASE. If you haven't actually played Makoto against other real players, don't give your opinions.

That being said, I will say this a million times. Makoto has crap range, as is pretty bad under pressure. Bang's normals will beat most of Makoto's normals, and her parry is alright, but is easily baited.

6-4 or 6.5-3.5 in Bang's favor.

[DJHUOSHEN]

If Bang attempts to maintain pressure by jumping and crossing you up, you can parry him and counter. If he's ranging and daggers in order to get in, your magic ball will protect you. Don't feel rushed to get in, but don't let him lay a thick level of pressure on you either. IBing matters, it will free you for a parry mid string. jC actually beats his 5A at a good angle.

As always watch the aggression. D happy Bangs should be grabbed into BnB, or baited into eating a parry.

[HiagoX]

Duly noted.

Pretty funny, sir.

Deleting posts, don't want shit starting in this thread.

[Big Red Tie]

how does makoto lose versatility? you can parry loop off whatever the fuck you want

you also cannot bait a parry; it cancels into everything. "baiting" a parry just resets both players to standing because you can't do oki

he has superior mixup/crossup but you have parry. ground game is even, but his air game is better (though kind of irrelevant). the deal breaker is nails.

[Phoeniks]

how does makoto lose versatility? you can parry loop off whatever the fuck you want

you also cannot bait a parry; it cancels into everything. "baiting" a parry just resets both players to standing because you can't do oki

he has superior mixup/crossup but you have parry. ground game is even, but his air game is better (though kind of irrelevant). the deal breaker is nails.

As I said I have not personally played her and the majority of topics about her gave me the impression that parry was baitable. If that's not true then I may have to rethink how this matchup works. I argue that Bang has versatility because I mained him from the start and now that he has more than two combos it certainly feels like it. Besides that, he has nails and more range (disregarding her projectile...name?), especially in the air. I suppose that I stressed Makoto's lack of versatility too much, but the main point was that her biggest advantage over Bang was damage.

EDIT: Just read announcement. Feel free to disregard.

[NinjaCW]

Been playing against a bang player. Swear that character destroys me I have no buttons. And he is pretty versatile in how he can position himself. His air to ground seems very good as it crosses up no matter what. Even when I see him whiff something, I can't really do anything because his 5a just seems to beat me no matter what.

I started trying to poke him out with 5d (3) but no dice there either. Just seems like he has buttons and I don't. . .as of now I'm fairly certain Bang wins that match up hands down, just because his attacks seem to be better than mines. However Makoto's damage can be really good so she CAN win the match it's just gonna be uphill.

[DJHUOSHEN]

Sup NinjaCW. Double Mak-ing eh?

5A loses to j2C. If he tries to reset you mid string with a jump cross up, 3C will set you free, or maybe even get you a CH. j2C will also screw up any time he tries to 2D you.

His 2A isn't great ranged compared to yours, use yours to your best advantage. Otherwise, yeah, tough match up.

One of several fights of my Mak vs Raiza57's Bang.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNZ6AySBVGE

[NinjaCW]

Sup NinjaCW. Double Mak-ing eh?

5A loses to j2C. If he tries to reset you mid string with a jump cross up, 3C will set you free, or maybe even get you a CH. j2C will also screw up any time he tries to 2D you.

His 2A isn't great ranged compared to yours, use yours to your best advantage. Otherwise, yeah, tough match up.

One of several fights of my Mak vs Raiza57's Bang.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNZ6AySBVGE

I tried j2c but it had to be really good with spacing and a good read. If he moved out the way I'm done and getting hit into another combo. He hasn't even hit me with 2a that much if at all. 5a pretty much hit me any time I moved forward rofl. I'll be uploading videos, they aren't the best but when we played earlier I have better combos now.

[riceshock]

Sup NinjaCW. Double Mak-ing eh?

5A loses to j2C. If he tries to reset you mid string with a jump cross up, 3C will set you free, or maybe even get you a CH. j2C will also screw up any time he tries to 2D you.

His 2A isn't great ranged compared to yours, use yours to your best advantage. Otherwise, yeah, tough match up.

One of several fights of my Mak vs Raiza57's Bang.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNZ6AySBVGE

When you have a 5B-5CC combo that is hit confirmed why do you do 6C? I saw you do the 6B to 214A~C Cspam combo for 2800~ a few times, but sometimes you opted for 6C to a much less damaging combo 1500~. Why?

[Eshi]

When you have a 5B-5CC combo that is hit confirmed why do you do 6C? I saw you do the 6B to 214A~C Cspam combo for 2800~ a few times, but sometimes you opted for 6C to a much less damaging combo 1500~. Why?

Because 5CC whiffs when Makoto hits with 5B from far away. The only move it will combo into is 6C when that happens. There are much better follow-ups in the corner though (5B > 6C > 214B > jB > JC > jD > whatever corner juggle)

[DJHUOSHEN]

Because 5CC whiffs when Makoto hits with 5B from far away. The only move it will combo into is 6C when that happens. There are much better follow-ups in the corner though (5B > 6C > 214B > jB > JC > jD > whatever corner juggle)

What this guy said, Bang's crouching hit animation is damn strange and a pain with Makoto (ever whiff 5B5CC6BC? yeah). I'm just more comfortable with 214ACA, because I want to tighten that up completely, and feel I still do it a little slowly. Plus sometimes it crosses them up, so I'm still feeling it out because if you're cornered, it's not a bad way to swap with your opponent. And finally, if you open with a 5A/2A, 214B > jB doesn't combo due to the proration of the A starter.

[riceshock]

I didn't understand what you meant until I spent some time versus a solid Bang.

Makes sense now. Thanks.

[Eshi]

Bang can IB 5A through 2A > 5B. I cried.

[Nini Heart]

Bang can IB 5A through 2A > 5B. I cried.

2A>5B has gaps. You can mash DP through it X_X.

Also, this matchup seems dead even. Both characters can abuse I.B. so really learn it. IBing is really retarded in this game.

You should throw 2Bs in blockstrings since it beats his 2D and bangs like to abuse that shit for free damage.

OS parry his J.4C crossup for free damage. You can parry nails but it's kinda risky to go for the follow up since it can be blocked.

He has a weird hitbox so make sure you practice a bit on him for those corner lightning arrow combos.

Air to air, Makoto wins. J.B is just way too good. Be wary of airgrabs though. You really don't wanna get airgrabbed next to the corner cause it's MASSIVE damage.

Ground to ground it's pretty even. Both have gdlk jabs, both can abuse I.B. due to those jabs. I.B. DP works a lot after an IBd 2A/5A and nets you a CH most of the time so you can do the follow up combo. Same goes for him, he can mash after he IBs your 2A.

Ground to air, you don't wanna throw out random 6As since he can just throw nails to get free combos. Parry is good, and well spaced 6A is good too.

Air to ground, I don't think Bang has any good anti airs. 2D beats J.2C though so be fairly wary about throwing it out a lot.

Bang has no answers to orb oki outside of Ashura and wake up GB, so really try to corner him as fast as possible and don't respect him.

Ashura leaves him at -frames so you get to continue pressuring him.

FRKZ bang is free to orb oki. Since it's a meaty which hits on the first frame and barrier block has some startup frames, he basically can't do anything except burst.

All in all, this matchup seems really even. Both characters do stupid damage off a jab especially when they get 50 meter. Bang's neutral is stronger but his defensive options are weaker. Makoto's damage output is also higher and she actually has corner oki. Both have top notch offensive options, though I think Bang has an easier time starting pressure due to his Nails.

IMO it boils down to who gets momentum first and who can abuse IB>jab to get back momentum better.