Eshi

I didn't see it noted here, but regular ground hit 2C launches the opponent now. Proof

You are one of the better Jack-o players posted here, good shit dude

I can't tell with the low quality, but this looks like a 21 dan Elphelt vs. an 18 dan Jack-O. These matches are very good. Oh neat, here's min as well, 19 dan Jack-O

last link is wrong btw

Is it worth discussing anything from week 1 revelator footage then? Combos, setups, all of it is subject to change as the game develops past such an early stage. And yet here we are. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

he won 1 match after the Axl made a ton of execution mistakes & kept doing Sparrowhawk Stance at unsafe distances. Then they played again and Tsujikawa got blown up by Sparrowhawk Stance, again. Tsuji demonstrates plenty of ways to handle it; he punished bad spacing most of the time and kept predicting with 2P/5K to hit his extended hurtbox. Let's not downplay the matches. I do agree with the larger problem being that Axl's huge normals make it impossible to put out bags in neutral, forcing her to approach cautiously or make 50/50 guesses. Most Axl match-ups are like that though and her movement isn't limited like I-No or Potemkin. Maybe 6-4.

This is a good point and it's something I've struggled to fix in every forum. I want to avoid blob-of-text style presentations that ultimately don't help new players (combo threads are a good example). I also really liked SKD's idea of a video thread where players break down in-depth the things that the Sin player does and why, both good and bad, as more useful for beginners than just a huge blob of videos with little context. I don't think I'm the most qualified player for providing such critiques but I can try. Other than that, it shouldn't be expected for anyone to have to sort through every page of this thread to compile information as its more for discussion. If there's info embedded in here that will get lost then we should create separate threads that keep the content in an OP.

This isn't really a gameplay question but I figure it's more or less appropriate here. In the same spirit of the general site-wide feedback that staff has been collecting to help improve Dustloop: Are there any changes that y'all want to see in the Sin board that I can work on? I'm keeping the video thread OP decently updated but some people have noted that it's not super useful for new players and other things, as an example, but I also haven't made many changes to other threads. Any feedback would be appreciated as this seems like one of the more active boards here and I want it to be as useful of a resource as possible!

I don't think jump barrier is the problem so much as, I'm 95% sure that most characters can just super jump to avoid it entirely. Cutting one iteration of the loop would probably fix this though. Side note: the other problem with really long loops is that it builds the opponent's burst gauge faster.

I'm a front-end dev now. Maybe I could help out?!

I really really like this idea, but then the obvious issue is who to put in charge of such a large redesign. Especially since they likely won't be paid.

Yeah, the animation has to get triggered by proximity blocking or something because it won't happen otherwise

No other move has the landing recovery properties of Amane's j2B AFAIK, it's very strange. Basically the move has landing recovery unless Amane does any action after it such as dashing, attacking or even blocking (which is why it works as a safejump).

jC > j236A > jB > jB > j2C > j236C is my favorite combo. Too many of Amane's confirms require commitment over reaction so I mold my playstyle to avoid it as much as possible. With this combo, you can confirm for decent damage on counter or seamlessly transition into pressure on block. You have to be careful with the first jB and possibly jump cancel early though; if they're too high and you try to go for all 3 hits then the combo can drop.

Even factoring in netplay lag, if you lose to him then you have no one to blame but yourself for letting him get in. And complaining about his easily avoidable drive high/low? Has no one done instant cross-up specials on you yet???

Hey guys! I made a video with some of Sin's jH instant overhead setups I've seen from JP players, they look ridiculously useful. None of the setups require Voltic Deign and the description contains all character specifics I could find in training mode. I hope y'all find it useful! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjzziCPQBN0

I'm beginning to understand the usefulness of building gauge with level 1 drill combos. Corner combos are the easiest example, I have no idea how to optimize it in midscreen combos yet (if it's even possible). Old corner combo routes - 2B > 3C > 236C > 5A > 6A > 623C > 2B > 6A > 623C (2860 damage, no drill, j2B oki) 2B > 3C > 236C > 5A > 6A > 623C > 2B > 6A > jc > jB > jc > jB > j2C [1] > j214B > j2C > j236C (3020 damage, no drill, no oki) 2B > 3C > 236C > 5A > 6A > 623C > 5B [1] > 6A > 5B [1] > 5C [1] > 623C (2848 damage, no drill, Hariken oki) Drill combo routes - 2B > 3C > 236C > 5A > 6A > 623C > 2B > 2D > 623C (2941 damage, 1/4 drill, j2B oki) 2B > 3C > 236C > 5A > 6A > 623C > 5B > 5D > 236D (2678 damage, 1/2 drill, ??? oki) 2B > 3C > 236C > 665A > 5B [1] > 2D > 623C > 5B > 5D > 236D (2629 damage, 4/5 drill, ??? oki) So, you can gain a massive amount of drill gauge just by using a single D attack and ending with charge. Oki is a little iffy though I think. It's possible to time a Hariken drill at the perfect time such that you will catch earliest possible roll while preventing them from jumping out, but the frame advantage at level 1 isn't strong and they can beat it with delayed roll. You can cancel into Hariken drill immediately which will neat you less gauge for optimal meaty timing, but they can just no-tech to make it blue beat for like 60 damage. You could also just cancel Hariken stance and go into pressure. This is pretty bad against DP characters, but against characters with no DP? You don't sacrifice that much and in return you get way more drill gauge quickly.

Just hitting them in the air with 5A on a short starter. It's a gimmick but my goal is to literally never go for it unless the combo can steal a round.

Here's a corner Gekiren combo I came up with to help steal games off of the Gekiren reset gimmick. 623C > RC > OD > 2B > 236C > 6A > 2D > 214A > jB [1] > j6D > land > 5B > 5D Does between 4.4 - 4.6k depending on your life, only needs about 50% life to get max damage. You can end with meaty hariken or OD 236236D if you start with at least 73 meter for 5.8k.

This match-up is definitely not even. 623B is an incredibly effective anti-air against Amane since it covers so much space while 623C ensures that he can't j2B from above her either. Her supers are godlike on defense. Justice Phorizer has start-up as fast as Jayoku Houtenjin while hitting almost fullscreen. If she has OD then you have to play REALLY respectfully on offense or else she'll pause the game, super into teleport and erase all of your life. At round start, your options are basically either to block or to jump barrier guard. You can't challenge 236C from the ground and if you jump into the air to do literally anything other than block then 623B will beat that too. They are both quite negative on block though so your best choice is to see what she does and assert pressure or punish, if possible. Don't autoguard her normal mode projectile, it counts as blocking so she still gains meter from it. Simply zettou over it instead to try and force her to block some pressure. 623C is a pretty slow DP so make sure to always hold back in case you safe jump it and can block. Unless you're absolutely steamrolling her, it's basically inevitable for her to get [close to] full gauge for Gain Art. Her mobility in this mode is ridiculous. Anti-air with 6A is next to impossible since she has so many options to bait it, so try to challenge her with jump jA instead. Play elusively to avoid getting pinned down and eating her mix-ups while respecting 623B so she can't get a free counterhit knockdown. Izayoi is NOT a true setplay character though so don't just emergency tech into all of her disgusting setups or you will die. If you get a chance to initiate offense, frame traps are very strong against her. Her only anti-airs are special inputs so she can't spam them, she has to guess where the gap in your pressure will be and it's much harder to do so if you change your pressure often. Amane's corner pressure is extremely strong if she does not have meter so try to optimize confirms for corner carry. Do not ever go for Hariken oki if she can super. And, that's about it. I definitely think this match-up is bad in Extend, probably 6-4. It's possible to win but you have to play very on point and understand how Izayoi works.

This match-up didn't change much in Extend. The only major difference I found is that Tager 6A will beat round start 214A now, just zettou again immediately and it's a non-issue. Hariken got better IMO since Amane recovers from it so much faster so he can't even sledge it if you space well enough. This is by far Amane's most favorable match-up, just don't let him touch you ever or you lose.

I've been doing a lot of thinking and studying about how to structure Amane's pressure in this version. I may ramble on a bit but I want to post my thoughts so far, both for others to learn and for myself to help internalize it. Amane's drill gauge changed such that it both increases and decreases at a slower rate than before, except level 3 which does both much faster than before. Amane spends most of his time in level 1 until he has 50 meter so optimizing this is my main focus. Up until now, if I decided to do 5B > 5D as a block string I would hold down 5D for its whole duration because I thought it would be best to gain as much drill as possible. But this is actually really dumb. 5D's strength in pressure comes from that he can special cancel it at any point; if you hold it for the exact same duration every time then it becomes very easy for the opponent to time a counterattack, especially considering that 5D has very little block stun. Also, prior to ECT I drastically underestimated the power of instant blocking Amane's pressure. More important than the reduced block stun is its reduced pushback. If the opponent just patiently IBs 5B or 5D, you will barely move at all. If you try to zettou cancel into jC, you will completely miss. Even 6B and 3C have barely any pushback so jC will usually miss there too. jC's primary use in pressure is to yomi punish anti-air attempts but IB takes it entirely out of the picture, they can just mash every single time when you pressure predictably. With all that said, Amane has a lot of flexibility in his pressure and can play around almost anything. Are they using a lot of barrier on your block strings? Zettou back on top of them soon, the increased block stun makes your pressure safer and jD suffers less from push back. Are they using a lot of IB so they can mash? Do a frame trap. 5B is great for this since it has 3 different cancelable hits and 5D, 3C or Hariken all punish different options. 5D is also great even if it lacks block stun because you can cancel at any point (but never ever go for Hariken, 236A or 214A > j236A are strongest here). Or Zettou away for complete safety, see if they DP and whiff punish. Players who straight up turtle against Amane are completely fucking up. He WANTS you to just sit there and block his pressure so he can chip you and gain more drill meter. Active defense is the correct way to beat Amane so that's what we need to play around.

wow you weren't kidding, his hit confirms are godlike. I wonder who the player is?

I recently figured out that Jirou has been streaming sessions of him playing Amane in training mode and netplay, once I have a functioning console with Extend and can sort through all the footage expect lots of new information. ^.^ The most obvious aspect of Jirou's play is that he uses lots of level 1 2D and 5D combo ender in the corner to help generate drill meter. If he hits something like 5B > 5D with close to level 2 then he will almost always ODC for level 3 for a combo that does around 3k. Very good ideas that I want to implement!