[CS1] Makoto vs. Jin

[NickExtreme1]

Discuss the Jin match-up here.

I'll start with some findings from using Makoto's Distortion Drives against Jin's Yukikaze(

Big Bang Smash vs. Yukikaze

If Yukikaze is used as a reaction to a point-blank LV1 and LV2 Big Bang Smash, Yukikaze will hit clean. However, if Yukikaze is used as a reaction to an point-blank LV3 Big Bang Smash, Makoto actually recovers from Big Bang Smash fast enough for you to super-jump over Yukikaze's counter assault, leaving Jin open for punishment.

If Yukikaze is used against any LV of Big Bang Smash from a distance,

Makoto recovers from Big Bang Smash, leaving you the chance to super-jump over Yukikaze's counter assault, leaving Jin open for punishment. (Makoto's blue fist counts as a projectile, FYI)

Particle Flare (Initial) vs. Yukkikaze

This is a little more complicated.

Jin can react with Yukikaze against Particle Flare(Initial), but here's a little heads-up:

If you release a LV3 Particle Flare(Initial) against Yukikaze, Yukkikaze will hit clean. However, if you delay Particle Flare(Initial) to reach LV2 at it's second pass heading downwards, you can hit Jin after Yukikaze fails (counterhit), leaving you the rest of your Particle Flare combo to complete.

NOTE: This is all when Jin REACTS with Yukikaze against Particle Flare(Initial) not when he throws out Yukikaze and you react with Particle Flare(Initial). The same method of delaying your hit to a downgraded LV2 will still work out, though.

Also, two notes about reacting to Jin's Touga Hyoujin (Ice Fang)

1) Makoto's Corona Upper may have invincibilty on start-up, but that invincibility is not large enough to through Ice Fang clean. If your a certain distance in the air when Jin uses Ice Fang, you can use Corona Upper to go above Ice Fang (above, not through)

Lame mens terms: Corona Upper /=/ Infernal Divider

2) If Jin uses Ice Fang mid to long range of Makoto, you can parry it ,avoiding Gaurd Primer damage. I don't recommend using Space Counter against a good Jin in mid range though, since he can react with C version DP and counter your counter. However, don't try to parry when Jin has 100% meter, he can just throw out another Ice Fang and hit you while recovering from your parry or when you try using Space Counter.

[Kurushii]

Since i've had about 20+ matches with Jourdal's Jin last night I'll throw my two cents in this matchup.

1. Don't try to sj.2C as a oki on Jin. He'll wakeup srk you easily.

2. Be prepared to change up your attack when you are in 236236D if the Jin gets in srk quick enough. Either you'll whiff or it'll clash and both will be in neutral really fast. When it clashed I was able to get in a quick 5D to save myself.

3. When in long range watch your 236A~D charging. If your spacing is just right Jin will 2D and freeze you on the spot.

4. Jumping in is risky on air to air being Jin has the advantage with his j.C (damn you Jin and Haku). If the spacing is just right you can go for a srk in air for priority.

5. Watch your uses and spacing of 214A~D cause he can easily 5D and stop you in your tracks.

6. 214B/C is very risky in this matchup his 5D has some good height on it or he'll srk you down. Try to use it during his recovery times after a ice sword or something. If you are going to use 214B/C use barrier in air for safety.

Overall i'd say it's a pretty even matchup.

[seyu]

its also noteworthy that you can run up and 3C under any of his projectiles on the ground and CH him before he recovers. leads into 2C>2D and good damage in the corner.

[OmniSScythe]

MATCH-UP STRATEGY

This isn't CT, don't waste your time shaking out the ice.

Ground to Ground

On the ground Jin approach tools are his 2A/2B/5B or a space out 5C.

It's safe to assume that he's always going for 2B so only attempt to parry on reaction to 5B or 5C. If you ever though Makoto's mix up game was horrible then take note to Jin's non-existing one outside of his overhead (which speed is only beat out by Bang's 5C). On block just go straight into 5A to punish it.

On offense you can fight him more or less like a character without a DP unless he has meter and or near a corner with 25 heat. The risk vs reward on his DP's is horrible not to mention you can bait out his C/D DP by canceling into 3C when he IB's. Against his D DP you can also 3C his second part of it.

What Jin specialty is frame traps, pressing buttons without certainty is just going to get you carried to the corner. Note his options are during moves like 5C and 6C for example.

On 6C he can dash cancel (on IB you can punish with jab, on normal just block), cancel into ice sword(On IB'd 6C you can 3C punish the sword), cancel into his DP's (3C will make them whiff and punish them as well as voiding their chance at RCing their mistake) or stay neural (you can punish that as well on IB).

5C it's more of the same except for 5C > 2D, on a IB 5C you can barrier cancel a dash to get closer making 2D whiff or at the least block anything that could come after 5C. You may be even get close to make an ice sword whiff in which you can 5C punish.

Keep in mind that a lot of his normals are jump cancel-able even when blocked which leads to this.

Ground to Air

First off your own air to air is horrible outside j.B and IB j.B so it's best to stay grounded.

6A works great against his aerials, go for a parry if he tries j.B too often, after a blocked 5B of his expect them to try to cross up you with his Ex ice swords which in that case just block in the same direction. against a far range j.C just block, not like you can hit him with anything outside of BBS and he can only gain something from a CH.

On a finally note expect to see Ice shenanigans.

Situational/Variant combos:

Parried j.B: 5A/2A or Dash 5A/2A > 5B > 2D(1) > 5CC > 2D(3) > 2366A~D > 214C~D > 214B~D > 6A > 5D > 2366A~D > j.7D > 2366A~D > BBS (6200+)

Forward grab: B+C > 214A~A > 5CC > 2D(3) > 2366A~D > 214C~D > 214B~D > 6A > 5D > 2366A~D > j.7D > 2366A~D > BBS (6000+)

CH 6C: CH 6C > 214A~A > 5B > 6A > 2D(3) > 2366A~D > 214C~D > 214B~D > 6A > 5D > 2366A~D > j.7D > 2366A~D > BBS (6500+)

Inferno divider DP C punish: CH 5C > 2C > 2D(3) > 2366A~D(3) > 214C~D(3) > 2366A~D(3) > 214B~D(3) > 6A > 5D(3) > 2366A~D(3) > j7.D > 2366A~D(3) > 632146D(3) (7300+)

DP D punish: 3C > 2C > 2D(3) > 2366A~D(3) > 214C~D(3) > 2366A~D(3) > 214B~D(3) > 6A > 5D(3) > 2366A~D(3) > j7.D > 2366A~D(3) > 632146D(3) (7500+)

[Nini Heart]

Frame 1 invincible DP means he can get out of orb oki free if he has 50 meter so be wary of it.

Other than that, match up seems fairly even. Not much he can do is really threathening.

Just don't push buttons and you'll be fine. His 6B is notoriously dangerous so try teching on reaction not to get majorly screwed by a frame trap.