Odds and Ends

[terrybogard]

Nope. FKO is not cancellable. There are moves that give enough stun/frame advantage for FKO to connect but it's not cancellable. Therefore, you have to delay the FKO a tiny bit to connect if you found C or D came out instead. Just like Shin's 2B > close C > Banishing Strike, you have to delay Banishing Strike a bit if you want it to connect.

So FKO isn't really cancellable... but if you look at this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvYTSPAh-IM

you can see there Raoh comboing his FKO after his dwn D. I think the player didn't delay the FKO after the dwn D... unless Raoh has a really wicked zero lag frame after his dwn D...

So you need to delay banishing strikes to combo... so thats why I can't seem to connect rei's dwn B, close std D, banishing strike chain. I'll try that when I get to play again this week.

Anybody know how rei does his fake air move?

[LiteSabre]

For Shin and Rei's close C/D -> banishing, you can tap CD twice and get the banishing to come out without having to delay. The first CD is a far D, and the second CD kara cancels the far D into a banishing. This also works for Kenshiro's far D -> banishing.

[Hyakuretsu Ken]

kenshiro's D to banishing doesn't combo even though it looks like it does. he still needs to boost cancel it to register it as a combo.

[LiteSabre]

Yes it does, but you have to be really close. For video proof, see White(Rei) vs Shiro(Ken) best out of 15 vid #2, starting at 00:22.

[nohoho]

SBO SCOOP --- Combo Trends For Toki this type was very popular: 2D -> B warp -> 2C -> close D -> B warp -> 2A -> 2C -> grave -> jB -> jC -> hyakuretsu -> j236A -> etc. [btw, Kurenai ended one with CD -> E -> 2B -> 632147D vs. Msin in the June a-cho finals. cool extra star] For Raoh spike combos we saw: spike -> 2A x n -> close B x n -> far B -> far D -> boost -> spike Weak attacks to extend the duration of the combo. Chain into the hard kick before they drift out of range. This is good for creating reset opportunities, too -- it's tough for Raoh's opponent to react if he sticks a mix-up in there. Rei anti-air: close C -> jC -> 236C -> (jump cancel input)236D -> air dash jB -> jC [jump cancel input = 2369D? I'm not familiar with how Rei's combos work actually] Milk the ground hit for maximum damage with heavy use of mid-air special move canceling. Match Highlights G.X (Raoh) vs. Keith (Heart) Heart has a tough time with Raoh's FB trap -- it's a lousy draw for him. Right before the fight, Keith remarked glumly, "I've never won this match up." However..... Keith laid the smack down on G.X. He took round one handily. Round two Keith reflects the Goushouha with Heart's Bring it On counter. Jump forward Agility Defense to close the gap. Bust through with super armor jump hard punch. Mix in a Kenpogoroshi (including a sneak frame eating trick -- see below.) Attack/throw two-way mix up for the win. Taji-kun (Juda) vs. Kurenai no Buta (Toki) Round one - Kurenai stops a wake-up Stamp the UD with Toki's close weak kick. By the same token, Taji beats a wake up Sekkakou with a last-minute air dash attack. Both players know their stuff. Taji takes the round. Round two - Kurenai down to three stars. Taji starts a combo with a crouching weak kick that leads to a Banishing Strike. He has a chance to win the whole thing but doesn't convert with a three star combo. Kurenai comes back to win. Round three - Taji with a huge lead on health (~80% to ~30%) eats a wake-up Sekkakou -> FKO. Adios amigo! Kurenai is SBO champ. GENERAL --- Projectiles and Frame Eating As in the GGXX series (eh?) it's possible to lock an unblocking opponent up with a super freeze and prevent them from blocking projectiles and more. Throw a projectile at your opponent. Right before it makes contact do a super move or a finishing strike. The game will pause and both players as well as the projectile will be frozen. Right after that, however, you and your projectile will start to move again before your opponent can act (NB: this "frame eating" time varies from one move to another.) If they weren't blocking before the super freeze they'll eat the projectile and possibly the super. Back in Street Fighter Alpha 2 days there was something called the Valle CC where you'd use the frame eating properties of custom combos to punish an opponent who was simply standing up. Mr. Heart can do the reverse of this -- when the staves from his Kenpogoroshi super are on the rebound they must be blocked high. If his opponent is crouching before they get there, Heart can do his Finishing Strike (doesn't matter where) to freeze them in a crouch position and make them unable to block. Keith used this in his win over G.X @ SBO. Very cool. I wonder if Mamiya can do something similar with her Helmet bomb? When she's popped it up in the air with a bowgun shot, I mean... Boosted Dash -> Throw Trick [btw, Arcadia credits Shiro with this trick] When you boost towards your opponent there are restrictions on what you can do and going directly into a throw is impossible. If you boost while dashing, however, you'll stay in the dash pose. Press back on the joystick and you can stop and throw your opponent immediately. Use this from half a screen away from your opponent to throw them extremely quickly. This same principle can be used with jumps. If you boost right as your character is starting to jump, they'll shoot forward stuck in the launch pose. Here you retain the ability to double jump or air dash during the boost. BONUS OFF-TOPIC ITEM --- Oh noes! Vampire Hunter movies!! ttp://shinjuku.cool.ne.jp/vampire-hunter/index.shtml The "Movie" button leads to a handful of old Daigo vids but... The "Events" button leads to a bucket of vids from a February 06 tourney. Click "next" for the finals and click "A Block" etc. for early round matches. (tianyuan2k4 - F Block is new)

[nohoho]

ANTI-JUDA -- THE END OF TRICKERY

---

By request. Heh. This information is a mix of stuff from Arcadia, white's fantastic blog, White's Trickery, and my own observations from watching videos.

General Tips

---

Banishing Strike

Juda is going be using his Banishing Strike frequently to build meter and to try to catch you flinching. Its recovery is pretty short but it is possible to block and counter it with the moves listed below.

When you block the Banishing Strike from a good distance (ie: late in its animation) you won't be able to block and counter using regular guard. Block it with Agility Defense and use an item from the first column instead.

If Juda misses the Banishing Strike altogether, you'll definitely want to punish him there. Boost in with a weak attack, being mindful of the long lingering attack time on the Banishing Strike.

Block and Counter Juda's Banishing Strike

Char.       Regular Guard      Agility Defense
Kenshiro    far A              close D, BD, 623A
Raoh        2A                 2B, BD, powered 623A
Toki        2A                 236236B
Jagi        236236C            2B, BD
Shin        far A, 2A          2B, BD, 63214A
Rei         far A              2B, BD
Juda        214B (GC)          2B
Thouther    nothing            2B, BD
Heart       214A(GC),236236A   2B
Mamiya      far A, far B, 2A   2C, 623D

Dam Break

When you block the first part of the dam break super, Juda will have the initiative on you for the next move. He can then make jumping away difficult so blocking the flood with Aura Guard (back+E) is the best bet. Guard cancel if he tries a Heavy Strike.

If the Comac attack misses, however, you have a big opportunity to counter attack. A boosted grab (6E~BD) here is an excellent choice. With Shin a boosted command grab (632146AE) works, too. If you're too far away or you don't have a grab simply high jump back and air dash away from Juda. Use Aura Guard on the way down -- don't bother trying to attack here. Heart is too vulnerable as he lands from his jump so staying on the ground is generally safer.

To Jump or Not to Jump?

Juda's far hard punch, Banishing Strike and Stamp the UD (the Comac uppercut -- Juda has upper body invincibility as the move starts) give him a solid anti-air arsenal. In spite of this, you may want to gamble with the odd jump in. Best case scenario: you jump/air-dash at him in anticipation of a Denshou Reppa or Dagar attack and kick him in the face before he recovers. Otherwise Aura Guard. Try a variation of this at full screen using boost. Do a low air dash in anticipation of those same two attacks and then if you see that Juda has done one, press boost then attack in rapid succession to catch him from a good distance. Here are some screenshots of DK doing this against Taji-kun:

[from 15_tajikun_dk_0505.mpg]

The presence of a land mine makes this more complicated, of course.

Okiseme vs. Juda

---

Here are some of Juda's options after he's been knocked off his feet.

The Time for Resourcefulness (fake dizzy move)

After standing up with this, Juda gets 8 frames of invincibility when he sticks out a normal move. That move takes a star, too. Note that invincibility won't be enough to stop you if you use a properly well-timed attack.

BTW - there's a glitch here: if Juda cancels the fake dizzy with an assist (such as 623A) the star-taking bonus will carry over to the next normal move he does.

Stamp the UD (aka "UD Mark" -- the comac uppercut)

A well timed low attack can stuff this move. Kurenai used Toki's close weak kick as okiseme vs. Taji in the SBO finals. Also it'll miss crouching Shin and Mamiya as well as Ken during his 2D.

Juda can be thrown out of the Stamp, too. NB: in this game when you have just got up off the ground you have a brief immunity to throws that you forfeit if you atttack. Since the Stamp isn't completely invincible, you can throw Juda if he tries it as he stands up.

Dam Break

This move is not unlike Toki's Sekkakou in that you're better off not messing with it. It can be stuffed (with a long range Heavy Strike?) but it isn't really worth the risk. Stand at a distance (see above) or air dash over Comac at the last minute.

Nanto Yousouhazan

White recommends this for Juda players against Dam-beating (uh?) Heavy Strikes. Big damage against Thouther and Mamiya, too. Anyway, it's easy to block and counter.

Break Out of the Juda Trap

---

As okiseme or otherwise, Juda's most dangerous tactic is a blocked attack followed by an unblockable. Your options for dealing with it will vary based on what your character can do, how far you are from the corner, how tightly Juda follows behind Dagar/an FB, etc., but they include:

General Outlook

If your character has some sort of (low) attack that can hit Juda and one or both of his assists that should prove to be very valuable. Mamiya's low bowgun shot is an excellent example of this. Shin's Senkyakusou (214B) can beat Dagar, Juda and a land mine all at once. Big crouching hard kicks like Ken's or Jagi's are good in this department, too. Juda can beat some of these with his far hard kick, so be careful.

ABB - Always Be Backdashing

Back dash early and often. Back dash away from Dagar, away from charged Banishing Strikes, through Heavy Strikes, etc.

Quick Standing/Delayed Wake-up

Generally speaking you want to get in the habit of using quick standing (tap 8 as you hit the ground) when you get knocked down. On the other hand, against some of Juda's okiseme patterns, delayed wake-up (tap 2) can throw off his timing. Specifically, when he tries some type of sequence starting with I'll Show You! (the Dagar swipe), a delayed wake-up may allow you to avoid Dagar and focus on dealing with the follow-up attack.

Bust Through with Invincibility

One way to break out of a Juda trap is to bust through the set-up move and the unblockable chaser all at once. Raoh's powered Tenshou Raigeki and Ken's hard punch Ujou Moshouha are examples of moves that can do this. Boost these as they start up (end the special move input with attack button plus boost simultaneously) to pass through a land mine as the situation warrants.

Agility Defense

If you can block Dagar using Agility Defense, that can sometimes mean the difference between a "tight" trap (where you're left with no choice but to guard cancel) and a "loose" one where your other options remain for countering Juda's unblockable.

Also, when you're backed into the corner, Agility Defense against the charged Banishing Strike is key. It's not easy to do, but the risks and rewards are huge.

Smack Dagar

Hit Dagar with a weak attack and then see what Juda tries to do as he dashes in after him. White played against Taji-kun recently and this is what he recommends for the Juda vs. Juda fight.

[Hyakuretsu Ken]

lite i got problems with filebank. I think Noho or someone mentioned that rei was a special case for his D to CD to hit and it had to be the close D. tell me this though does he use a boost for the cd then?

[LiteSabre]

It does have to be close D. What nohoho was talking about was the link version which is close D, wait, CD. I'm talking about the kara cancel version, where you hit with close D, tap CD once to get a far D and immediately tap CD again to kara cancel the far D (if done correctly you'll only see the briefest startup frames) into the banishing. Same goes for Shin. With Ken, you'll need to cancel the far D into 2D and then kara that into banishing. To nohoho: I'm sure you know this, but I'll post it anyway since you haven't written it up there. If Comac misses during the dam super, Toki can get 1~3 free stars by doing 2D->236236C(->236236B). If he has no super gauge, he can do 2D->623C->j.(B-C-D-236C) for damage but no stars.

[Hyakuretsu Ken]

(actual input: far D~E -> 2CD~CD) went back to noho's post this on the 2nd or 3rd page. that required a boost. if it's only close D then i haven't experimented with it that much since i tap D 2x for combos usually. guess i gotta go try both close and far D then. i sure could use a banishing combo starter for ken that doesn't require boost. on the other hand, raoh's far D banishing is much more reliable since it hits crouchers but ken's far D misses.

[tianyuan2k4]

Every taunt gives your opp one aura gauge and boost gauge! So it's somewhat meaningful now :blink:

[BRUNO]

What is the last characters ranking please ? 1/ toki 2/ juda 3/ rei 4/ ken 5/ raoh 6/ shin 7/ thouther 8/ heart 9/ jagi 10/ mamiya ??? THANKS a lot.

[BRUNO]

Hi everyone! I'm new here. I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, esp nohoho for starting this. I've learned a lot just from reading and watching the vids linked here.

I'm a rei user, and I'd like to know how rei does his "fake" move in the air. I remember doing it accidentally while I was trying to do another move. I think thats the key in performing that qcf C(air) loop I saw in one of the vids that was linked here. Can anyone help me?

Also, I'd like to ask if the FKO moves are really cancellable after normal moves. Funny thing is, when I try to combo it after a cancellable normal(like Rei's close C or dwn D), it doesn't come out(I get a banishing strike instead). But I managed to pull it off a couple of times. Is there some weird timing to it? or its not really comboable and you need to kara cancel it(like FDC in GGX)? Thanks in advance for any info you guys can provide

his "fake" move 236c in the air: 236c+(9+a/b/c/d slow or rapidely for jump cancel up or down) /236c+2369c+2369c etc.../236c+2369d.

his "fake" move 236d in the air: 236d+66 rapidely+... :china:

---------------------------

i am a toki / rei and juda player...

[BRUNO]

It does have to be close D. What nohoho was talking about was the link version which is close D, wait, CD. I'm talking about the kara cancel version, where you hit with close D, tap CD once to get a far D and immediately tap CD again to kara cancel the far D (if done correctly you'll only see the briefest startup frames) into the banishing. Same goes for Shin. With Ken, you'll need to cancel the far D into 2D and then kara that into banishing.

To nohoho: I'm sure you know this, but I'll post it anyway since you haven't written it up there. If Comac misses during the dam super, Toki can get 1~3 free stars by doing 2D->236236C(->236236B). If he has no super gauge, he can do 2D->623C->j.(B-C-D-236C) for damage but no stars.

exactely or 2d+236236c+2a+2c+cde+2a-e+2c.c... for exemple:china:

------------------------------------

i am a toki / rei and juda player...

[BRUNO]

New movies at Angel-Land Sako -- lots of Raoh.

Gwyrgyn Blood - That button holding trick applies only to round start and super freeze. The game locks up (pauses) the command buffer and when it activates it again it treats held buttons as presses. Speaking of that, there's an old Toki catches the clap item I wanted to correct a long time ago but never got around to it:

You don't need to jam on anything. HOLD DOWN boost and attack during the super freeze to guarantee you'll punish Toki. You can see Taji-kun doing this against Kurenai in that Gachi series from Stage:4. I mean, it's safe to assume he was using this input. I guess Ken can hold down standing hard kick (no boost necessary?) Toki and Shin (iffy) crouching hard kick, too.

please give me a video about this technique. :china:

[BRUNO]

BRUNO - I think LiteSabre was talking about 236CD+(8 or 2)

I have test this but i see nothing ! :china:

[Hyakuretsu Ken]

ok i got the far D vanishing combo to work. I noticed the CD will miss if the far D hit at the tip of ken's foot. was trying out his infinite but it turns out that the last air D kick before the tenha kassatsu is air recoverable. so i decided to switch to C and got it to work. however I don't know if it's a true combo. anyone can confirm by having 2p jam on the air recovery?

[LiteSabre]

Ken has an infinite?

[Hyakuretsu Ken]

on this page click the angel land sako link quoted by bruno originally posted by noho. should be labeled kenshirookusi it's a fake infinite but the first part should work so if you can land everything before the last air D kick then it'll take a lot. it misses on certain people so don't rely on it. that's sorta why i stop doing that combo.

[LiteSabre]

I can find no such video on the site, and if you're talking about kenshirosokusi, that's a 100%, not an infinite. Infinites are impossible in this game due to increased hitback in combos with the exception of Raoh's spike combo vs sitting Rei.

[BRUNO]

I can find no such video on the site, and if you're talking about kenshirosokusi, that's a 100%, not an infinite. Infinites are impossible in this game due to increased hitback in combos with the exception of Raoh's spike combo vs sitting Rei.

I am agree with litesabre and i confirm. :china:

KEN HAVE ANY INFINIT

and RAOH IS A EXCEPTION ABOUT REI CROUNCHING STUN

[Hyakuretsu Ken]

ken have any infinite? dunno what you trying to say there bruno o amongst my firends we call anything that takes 100% life an infinite and we got used to it ever since marvel super heroes........

[terrybogard]

his "fake" move 236c in the air: 236c+(9+a/b/c/d slow or rapidely for jump cancel up or down) /236c+2369c+2369c etc.../236c+2369d.

his "fake" move 236d in the air: 236d+66 rapidely+... :china:

Thanks Bruno, I'm gonna try that. So Rei doesn't have a "fake" move after all...

I've played a few rounds today. Found out that some of Rei's aerial moves have "brake" or "feint" inputs. These cancels the move's lag part and rei will be able to perform another action. So far, I've only confirmed his air qcf D. With his air qcf D, it needs to hit. I'm not 100% sure about the command now since Bruno posted that its fwd fwd after qcf D, but what worked for me today was I did another qcf D after air qcf D hits. Rei will spin around in the air(and maintains his position) instead of flipping back. You can do anything afterwards the spin(dash, another aerial move or stick out a normal). If the opponent blocks the move, you can't do the fient move.

Still trying to learn that close D into banishing combo. I still can't get it right.

Speaking of infinites... doesn't rei have that air qcf C infinite? Unless that one has a limit...

[BRUNO]

i have hnk in my house since april and i analyse the GAME all the time specially toki/rei/and juda "DEATH WARRIORS" And if you want cancel the 236d air tape 66 rapidely after the impact+....b+c is good here. WARNING:for cancel the 236d air you need many time to do a AID, OR 623C... Somes exemples: 1/ 623C 4HITS +E+C+236D+66+B.C it's ok !! 2/ stand C +jump blabla+236d+66+blabla it's ok!! 3/ AC +JUMP A+C+D+236D+66+BLABLA it's impossible !! 236c is not a infinit sorry for my english . :china: please more REI PLAYERS ANALYSE IN THIS FABULOUS FORUM.

[BRUNO]

what is the last top tier ?

[100% BEEF]

Quick question for those of you who have played the game: After reading that Toki is super queer and lots of characters have balancing issues, is it worth picking this title up for PS2? Or is this game too broke to invest any time in? Thanks in advance.