[CS2] Valkenhayn Technical Discussion

[Dragonthorn]

Edited my post above. It turns out 6C needs to be off a CH for 6C[h] > RC > j.a to connect.

[Sahgren]

(w) (C >) j.A > 5B > 236B > j.236B > j.214B > Delay 3C > j.AA > Land 5D > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C (3.5k Damage, 51% MG)

Could this possibly be the new BnB for hitconfirming in wolf? Unless it's character specific, getting 3.5k and 51 MG off of a random j.A is way too tempting to give up.

Edit: Ok, I personally can't pull it off. Any tips?

Edited May 23, 2011 by Sahgren

[GenoWhirl]

You gotta delay the 3C, but if you delay it too much it won't hit. It'll require a lot o0f practice but I think mastering it will benefit Valk

[Sahgren]

You gotta delay the 3C, but if you delay it too much it won't hit. It'll require a lot o0f practice but I think mastering it will benefit Valk

So "Just get a feel for it."? It's worth it though, it's a full 1.2k more than the combo I was doing before without spending any meter.

[NickExtreme1]

Starting from [w]236A:

[w]CH 236A > (Walk Up) 5B > 236B > j.236B > j.236A > 5C > j.B x2 > 5B > j.AAA > dj.DC (3178 Damage, 37MG)

[wanzerpilot09]

[h] Close Range 2A > 2C > 6B > 236C > 9D > j.B > j.A > Land 5D > 2C > 6C > j.214B > 2D > 236B > j.236A > j.236B > CD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (3.3k Damage, 50% MG)

Hey all, I have looked on the forum pages, but I have not found the help I am needing. With the 9D > j.B > j.A > Land 5D > 2C, how does the j.A, Land 5D, and 2C connect? Is the timing near the ground or am I suppose to have my opponent high up during my j.B? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[OrionXElite]

Starting from [w]236A:

[w]CH 236A > (Walk Up) 5B > 236B > j.236B > j.236A > 5C > j.B x2 > 5B > j.AAA > dj.DC (3178 Damage, 37MG)

If you can confirm its gonna be CH, you can get a bit more out of it:

[W]CH236A>C>D>[H]2C>6B>2C>5C>JC>D>[W]j.AAA>j.236A>j.236B>7C>D>[H]j.B>j.214B>9D>D>j.B>dj.B>dj.C (3950 Damage, 49 Heat Gain)

I was also toying around with his throws. Its possible to pick them up midscreen with a Rapid. I've got 3 Throw combos, 1 for back throw, 1 for forward throw, and a Tager specific Back throw combo.

Front Throw: Throw>RC>D>5C>D>[H]2C>JC>j.B>j.214B>D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>j.B Double Jump D Oki (3117 Damage, 21 Heat gained back)

Back Throw: 4BC>RC>Rozen>9D>[W]j.A>j.236A>j.236B>C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>D>[H]j.B>dj.B>dj.C (3022 Damage, 23 Heat gained back)

Tager Specific: 4BC>RC>2C>6B>2C>JC>D>[W]j.AAA>j.236A>j.236B>C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>j.AAA>JC>D>[H]j.C (3549 Damage, 28 Heat gained back)

The Tager specific is what used to be the Bang/Arakune specific, RC the back throw and Tager gets thrown with Valk in front of him so you can just stand there and pick it up once he hits the ground :3

[OrionXElite]

Hey all, I have looked on the forum pages, but I have not found the help I am needing. With the 9D > j.B > j.A > Land 5D > 2C, how does the j.A, Land 5D, and 2C connect? Is the timing near the ground or am I suppose to have my opponent high up during my j.B? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

So the way it works is like this, I'll break it down step by step and hopefully it helps:

1) 236C connects, 9D cancels into Wolf and you approach the enemy.

2) Hit the j.B right about where the Wolf's Tail will hit them, meaning very high on the hitbox.

3) Wait for the j.B to recover then just before you hit the ground, hit the j.A. You'll be very close to the ground while the opponent will be above you a little bit.

4) Just land on the ground and hit the D Button and you'll go back into Human Form.

5) Back in Human Form, quickly hit the 2C and continue into 6C. When you hit the 2C, they should be right about Valk's Chest height.

This is easiest way to break it down. Its not a very easy combo but if you just make sure you get each step right, you'll be fine. Steps 4 and 5 are gonna be a lot faster than 1-3 so if needed, just try and get used to hitting the D Button when you hit the ground before you move on to hitting the 2C. But practice this and you'll get it soon:keke:

[wanzerpilot09]

So the way it works is like this, I'll break it down step by step and hopefully it helps:

1) 236C connects, 9D cancels into Wolf and you approach the enemy.

2) Hit the j.B right about where the Wolf's Tail will hit them, meaning very high on the hitbox.

3) Wait for the j.B to recover then just before you hit the ground, hit the j.A. You'll be very close to the ground while the opponent will be above you a little bit.

4) Just land on the ground and hit the D Button and you'll go back into Human Form.

5) Back in Human Form, quickly hit the 2C and continue into 6C. When you hit the 2C, they should be right about Valk's Chest height.

This is easiest way to break it down. Its not a very easy combo but if you just make sure you get each step right, you'll be fine. Steps 4 and 5 are gonna be a lot faster than 1-3 so if needed, just try and get used to hitting the D Button when you hit the ground before you move on to hitting the 2C. But practice this and you'll get it soon:keke:

Thanks! I appreciate the quick response. Back to training now

[NickExtreme1]

Tager Specific: 4BC>RC>2C>6B>2C>JC>D>[W]j.AAA>j.236A>j.236B>C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>j.AAA>JC>D>[H]j.C (3549 Damage, 28 Heat gained back)

The Tager specific is what used to be the Bang/Arakune specific, RC the back throw and Tager gets thrown with Valk in front of him so you can just stand there and pick it up once he hits the ground :3

That trow trick is exclusive to Tager in CS2 now, huh? Good to note in the Tager match-up thread, thanks

[OrionXElite]

That trow trick is exclusive to Tager in CS2 now, huh? Good to note in the Tager match-up thread, thanks

Yeah you can get some other funky tricks to happen too. If you Back throw>RC>Dash towards the thrown body, Valk will always backdash if you do it instantly and they graze his head for a second before flying over him, pick up is the same though so it doesn't matter. Best part is all those combos corner carry from corner to corner.

[OrionXElite]

If you can confirm its gonna be CH, you can get a bit more out of it:

I was also toying around with his throws. Its possible to pick them up midscreen with a Rapid. I've got 3 Throw combos, 1 for back throw, 1 for forward throw, and a Tager specific Back throw combo.

Front Throw: Throw>RC>D>5C>D>[H]2C>JC>j.B>j.214B>D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>j.B Double Jump D Oki (3117 Damage, 21 Heat gained back)

Back Throw: 4BC>RC>Rozen>9D>[W]j.A>j.236A>j.236B>C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>D>[H]j.B>dj.B>dj.C (3022 Damage, 23 Heat gained back)

Tager Specific: 4BC>RC>2C>6B>2C>JC>D>[W]j.AAA>j.236A>j.236B>C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>j.AAA>JC>D>[H]j.C (3549 Damage, 28 Heat gained back)

The Tager specific is what used to be the Bang/Arakune specific, RC the back throw and Tager gets thrown with Valk in front of him so you can just stand there and pick it up once he hits the ground :3

Ok so I was in training and noticed something funny when I was trying these out some more. Turns out that the Back Throw>RC combos are actually character specific and then theres an even more specific way to pick it up with Tager.

So when you Back Throw>RC, the ability to pick it up is based on whether or not you can make the opponent get stuck on Valk for a split second and slow them down. So after figuring that out, I went through and checked who it worked on and I got this:

Ragna, Hakumen, Lambda, Mu, Tager

Now you do the normal combo on everyone except Tager. Tager moves you with him so you can do the Tager specific. I'll add these side notes to each matchup thread as a Char. Specific Detail.

[Azzal]

I don't see a 6B fatal combo from midscreen in the combo list, anyone has figured one out?

[OrionXElite]

6B Fatal used to yield a really good loop involving 236A but not that theres so much recovery on it, it doesn't work anymore.

Your best confirm would be this assuming near the corner:

FC6B>2C>5C>Rozen>9D>[W]j.B>j.A>Land>D>[H]2C>6C>2C>Jump Cancel>TK j.214B>2D>[W]236B>j.236A>j.236B>Delayed 5C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>Jump Cancel>D>[H]j.B>dj.B>dj.C>Konig Flug

Damage with Super: 6599

Meter Gained after Super: 15

Damage Without Super: 5479

Meter Gained before Super: 65

Thats your little less than half screen away from the corner combo. If you can make the 6C Wallbound, do this combo.

Heres a complete midscreen combo:

FC6B>2C>5C>Rozen>9D>[W]j.B>j.A>Land>D>[H]2C>Jump Cancel>j.B>j.214B>5D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>Delayed 5C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>Jump Cancel>D>[H]j.B>dj.B>dj.C>Konig Flug

Damage with Super: 5950

Meter Gained after Super: 4

Damage without Super: 4830

Meter Gained before Super: 54

An easy way to think of it is that Fatals for Valk just let him do his CS1 combos for the most part. But those are the most practical ways I can think of to confirm it without do some weird Fatal only pickup given the fact its quite hard to hit confirm sometimes.

[Azzal]

Ok so these are for the most part just normal combos of a 6B fatal, finishing with wolf C double falling B instead of C D jB, jc B, J C.

Thanks!

Yeah the loop was stylish, easy as hell and more damaging. :p

[Hatake]

Not sure if this midscreen combo is on the list, but here goes my first contribute.

2C>6B>3C>2C>j.5B>214B>5D>236A>214B>5C>5D>5B>j.5B>5C Damage:4544; With 236236C, it's 5700.

The character(s) it doesn't work on is: Arakune, Taokaka, *Tsubaki, Lambda, Bang*

*For Tsubaki, Lambda, and Bang, the first 2C has to be a CH in order to work.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Hatake

[NickExtreme1]

Not sure if this midscreen combo is on the list, but here goes my first contribute.

2C>6B>3C>2C>j.5B>214B>5D>236A>214B>5C>5D>5B>j.5B>5C Damage:4544; With 236236C, it's 5700.

The character(s) it doesn't work on is: Arakune, Taokaka, *Tsubaki, Lambda, Bang*

*For Tsubaki, Lambda, and Bang, the first 2C has to be a CH in order to work.

If I may be bold as to suggest a change to make this universal.

2C > 6B > 3C> 2B > 5C >. j.B > j.214B > 5D > j.236A > j.214B > 5C > j.B> j.B > 5B > j.DB > dj.B > j.C (4691 Damage, 49MG , 5811 Damage with 236236C ender)

[OrionXElite]

You can add a bit more to this combo to really make it hurt when you land a 2C as its his best starter.

2C>6B>3C>2C>5C>Jump Cancel>j.B>j.214B>5D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>Delayed 5C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>Jump Cancel>j.B>3C>j.A>Land>D>[H]5B>2C>Jump Cancel>j.B>dj.B>dj.C

5239 Damage before the Super, 6359 with the Super.

[Hatake]

Very nice guys. I'll have to try these out tonight.

[TD]

this may be a bit off topic but, is there any info explaining his oki options and mixup routes?

[OrionXElite]

You have a couple of ways to get oki and mixup with Valk. You used to able to use 236A to get free Wolf mixup but Wolf is too slow to do that now so thats out.

Now you have a couple different options, one that involves Wolf form and one that uses Human form. For the Wolf one, end any combo in [W]j.236B>5C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>j.B and after the last j.B, double jump and turn back into Human while they tech and you'll get a decent reset. For the Human one, for some shorter, non-Wolf combos(and some combos that do use Wolf), you end the combo with 5B>2C>JC>j.A>j.B>dj.C>Falling j.C. The last j.C always blue beats but it catches rolls and is completely safe on whiff so this is a much more useful oki option than the other.

[Zoink]

You can add a bit more to this combo to really make it hurt when you land a 2C as its his best starter.

2C>6B>3C>2C>5C>Jump Cancel>j.B>j.214B>5D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>Delayed 5C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>Jump Cancel>j.B>3C>j.A>Land>D>[H]5B>2C>Jump Cancel>j.B>dj.B>dj.C

5239 Damage before the Super, 6359 with the Super.

If you hit the 2C really close to the opponent, you can also do this:

2C>6B>3C>2C>tk j.214B>5D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>5C>j.B>j.A>land>5D>[H]2C>6C>5D>[W]5B>JC>j.B>3C>j.A>land>5D>[H]5B>2C>JC>j.B>dj>j.B>j.C(>236236C)

If I remember correctly this does slightly more damage than yours, but it's rather impractical.

Edit: Now that I had the chance to test it, my combo does 5409 damage without the super (60MG) and 6529 with the super (10MG). Also, it seems to work as long as you can connect the 3C>2C at the beginning of the combo.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Zoink

[Sahgren]

Dunno if this has been posted yet:

Corner combo:

[h]236B~236B > D ~ D > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > dj.C (3602 dmg, 41 MG) Useful to know if you can hitconfirm a raw [h]236B in the corner.

[NickExtreme1]

Relevent to our interests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NknvrbnXXBg

[DoomieJ]

Sorry if i didnt see it, does anyone know if valk can combo off his command grab mid screen?