Papstr Posted February 29, 2012 Posted February 29, 2012 You guys are twisting the context of my post around. He's really not. Move crosses you up. Ok. Move doesn't cross up in the exact same situation. Ok. Sounds like a good ol' fashioned ambiguousous..ous.. thing.
Seiki Posted February 29, 2012 Posted February 29, 2012 Except that...it isn't the same situation because a game is a program which follows a formula...so 2+2 will always equal 4...or a move will cross you up when it should and it wont when it shouldn't. It's Star's human error that causes him to get hit by it. If it's us misunderstanding you, Star, it's because you aren't being clear enough. I directly responded to each point you made which are: a)cross-ups are inconsistent, your words: my opponent threw out his last move which crossed up but instead this time it decided "Meh, kind of don't feel like crossing my opponent up today." b)60% damage is a big deal, your words: ,The funny thing is is that I wouldn't even have a problem with getting hit by them if it wasn't for the fact that getting hit by this leads to you losing about 60% of your life My argument and the rest of what you said was "stating the obvious" was to show that 60%, regardless of how or why you get hit (yeah that includes moving ever so slightly), isn't really a big deal when you consider all the options and consequences (the "obvious" statements) involved with dishing out 60% damage. If the part of my argument where I explained why teammates could be more important than 60% damage is so obvious then why are you making a big deal about 60% damage? When you say things like: "You would think the game would still register the move you do the same regardless if your opponent moved even the slightest bit, at least in my head anyways." It reflects that you approach the game with preconceived notions of what it should play like and that clouds your ability to both appreciate and learn the game. If you are going to truly understand a game and really figure out if you like it or not, you cannot come in with preconceived notions. For me I learned this with Marvel. There is a lot of BS in marvel, imo, but it's competitive for a reason and I can appreciate at least that aspect by looking at marvel and asking myself why people play it. When you question the legitimacy and reasoning behind design decisions and try your best to think of the positive reasons behind those choices it's easier to appreciate said game.
LuminAbyss Posted February 29, 2012 Posted February 29, 2012 I fucking love ambiguous cross-ups and that's why I main Kyo.
LastStarSaviour Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Naimat, I didn't denounce what you said at all, so if you thought that my bad. I was referring to what Klein was saying, since honestly it was... anyways let's talk about the issues: A)Correct B) You left out a lot with this. I do recall saying that 60% damage is indeed a big deal. But notice I said that if I get hit by a cross-up that I feel I did not block correctly, then this is okay. However, if I do try to block a cross-up but instead the move does not register as a cross-up even though it crossed me up IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION I was in before, then i'm pissed. This is different then what you're saying I said. Now the thing that gets me is that you responded to me saying you were stating the obvious. The fact of the matter is, each character does have a job to do. Whether it's build meter, waste that meter, kill niggas regardless, or just whatever else. However, if I can't even attempt to achieve to do these things with my characters due to them dying by an error then there's honestly no point to me trying to play the game with a team-based theme. I'm better off just focussing on keeping my current character alive and out of the way of stupidity. Another thing that I would like to point out is that I appreciate Kof in its entireity (things I dislike and all). Yes, I do diss many games but never once did i say they weren't worth playing. Maybe I do come in with preconceived notions but can you really blame me? Playing fighters for a while usually makes you play many others the same way, so yeah...
Astaroth136 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 I had a dream that astaroth beat me with platinum D; wtf Soon...
Top_Cat Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) B) You left out a lot with this. I do recall saying that 60% damage is indeed a big deal. But notice I said that if I get hit by a cross-up that I feel I did not block correctly, then this is okay. However, if I do try to block a cross-up but instead the move does not register as a cross-up even though it crossed me up IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION I was in before, then i'm pissed. That can't be the case. If at one point, a move didn't cross you up, but then did, you were not in the "exact same situation." Something about the second scenario had to have been different to at least some degree, otherwise it would have had the same result as the first scenario. Even if the difference is just an incredibly small, maybe unnoticable positioning issue, it couldn't have been the same. Soon... nooooo. NEW LOLICON ON THE BLOCK. Edited March 1, 2012 by Top_Cat
Seiki Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 If Astaroth plays Platinum, I'll play Noel. (vomits a little)
Jackie Chandler Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 If Astaroth plays Platinum and Naimat plays Noel, I'll play Bang. (:3's a little)
Top_Cat Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 If Astaroth plays platinum and Naimat plays noel and Jackie plays bang I'll play Ragna.
LastStarSaviour Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 If Astaroth plays Platinum, and Naimat plays Noel, and Jackie plays Bang, and Midnight plays Ragna, then i'll play all of the above and more?
Seiki Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Midnight has to play either Carl or Hakumen. Star has to play Tager. LOL
Jackie Chandler Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 If Astaroth plays Platinum, and Naimat plays Noel, and I play Bang, and Midnight plays Ragna/Carl/Hakumen, and Star plays all of the above and more/Tager, Milln has to play Blazblue.
LuminAbyss Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 That sounded like a word problem off of my statistics tests.
Top_Cat Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Midnight has to play either Carl or Hakumen. Star has to play Tager. LOL Agree. If Astaroth plays Platinum, and Naimat plays Noel, and I play Bang, and Midnight plays Ragna/Carl/Hakumen, and Star plays all of the above and more/Tager, Milln has to play Blazblue. Agree.
LuminAbyss Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 No, Jackie just had a little too much bean dip at dinner.
LastStarSaviour Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 If Astaroth is playing Platinum, and Naimat is playing Noel, and Jackie is playing Bang, and I'm playing all of the above and more/Tager, and Mill plays Blazblue, then Midnight must play Tsubaki. I really will do this, lol.
Grimstar Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Naimat, I didn't denounce what you said at all, so if you thought that my bad. I was referring to what Klein was saying, since honestly it was... anyways let's talk about the issues: A)Correct B) You left out a lot with this. I do recall saying that 60% damage is indeed a big deal. But notice I said that if I get hit by a cross-up that I feel I did not block correctly, then this is okay. However, if I do try to block a cross-up but instead the move does not register as a cross-up even though it crossed me up IN THE EXACT SAME SITUATION I was in before, then i'm pissed. This is different then what you're saying I said. Now the thing that gets me is that you responded to me saying you were stating the obvious. The fact of the matter is, each character does have a job to do. Whether it's build meter, waste that meter, kill niggas regardless, or just whatever else. However, if I can't even attempt to achieve to do these things with my characters due to them dying by an error then there's honestly no point to me trying to play the game with a team-based theme. I'm better off just focussing on keeping my current character alive and out of the way of stupidity. Another thing that I would like to point out is that I appreciate Kof in its entireity (things I dislike and all). Yes, I do diss many games but never once did i say they weren't worth playing. Maybe I do come in with preconceived notions but can you really blame me? Playing fighters for a while usually makes you play many others the same way, so yeah... Ambiguous cross-ups exist in every fighter, even BB. I've already found a shit ton of them with Relius. Like it's fucking stupid how easily he can do it. It's far easier to do an ambiguous xup in a game with air dashing or double jumps (BB) than without (KoF). Easiest way to prevent that shit in KoF is to just roll out of it or back dash. Or anti-air. They're not impossible or unfairly difficult to beat. As for 60% combos......... Dude you play BB. At least in KoF it requires meter and a lot of setup to do that much damage. I'll take skillful 60% in KoF over bullshit random 50/50 overhead/low corner carrying Litchi/Makoto garbage any day. Basically it's just a game that requires more practice. More than BB. And I think you aren't used to that. I don't mean that in an offensive way, I'm just saying blaz is incredibly easy to pick up and learn. KoF is a bit harder, you have to know a lot more about the game, and recognize more hits than the 2-3 over heads your opponent has like in BB. You also have a lot more to manage meter wise, with 3 characters and all. It's just a far more strategic fighter IMO. And that's a good thing. After playing KoF more at GG tonight, I may just drop BB entirely again. I'll hold on to it for the next MTN and see how it goes, but after that, I may drop it. Unless I really enjoy the tourney. We'll see.
LastStarSaviour Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) I disagree with you in some aspects Grim, but I respect your opinion but honestly saying that i'm not used to having to acutally practice in the games I play was kind of insulting, just saying... Also, Blazblue isn't a game where you get almost 60% off of just any old random hit. There are characters like that but many others require you to actually either fish for counter hits (this requires reading, baiting, and understanding your opponent as well as having great executionm, punishes, and mind-games). In Kof, you hit someone, and you REALLY hit someone if you're playing with the right character. Honestly, I see Kof as a much easier game to learn but harder to master seeing as it's so much more simple in design and seeing as combos are simply "loop these specials over and over again." You play Relius, that dude pours damage out of his ass-hole for a living. Litchi barely gets 4k or decent corner-carry unless you get a counter-hit and Makoto isn't even a character to complain about. Edited March 1, 2012 by LastStarSaviour
Jackie Chandler Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 You know Lumin, I first read that as: Jackie just had a little too much bean dp at dinner. Also, Star- Mill plays Blazblue Who's Mill?
LastStarSaviour Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 He's the shadow of the dude named Milln who used to have my respect.
Grimstar Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) I disagree with you in some aspects Grim, but I respect your opinion but honestly saying that i'm not used to having to acutally practice in the games I play was kind of insulting, just saying... That's not how I meant it, I know you have to practice in BB... but when it comes to that it's more of just muscle memorizing your combos. Then you play opponents and all you really need to learn to put up a decent fight is what your opponent's overheads and unsafe moves on block are. I'm just saying in KoF you have to learn a lot more than that, spacing and meter management become a much larger part of the game. It's a tougher game to learn and get good at than BB is. And my main point with the comment "I don't think you're used to that" is that you're used to learning Blazblue and other games like it. Not a game closer to Street Fighter, because I know for a fact very few of the BB players have really put forth their all at learning SF4 or any other game they find "slow" or "boring." It's just a different game, a different learning experience, and that's how KoF is. And that's what I was getting at with that comment. Not meant to imply you don't practice in BB. But honestly, you really don't have to. /trollface Edited March 1, 2012 by Grimstar
LastStarSaviour Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Could've sworn BB requires you to learn twice as much when it comes to spacing. With the barrier-block system you really need to understand your characters normals and how they are used in any given situation. As for having learning how to manage meter, Kof has BB beat by a long shot. Also, Kof is the fastest game out there currently, even though matches are fairly long.
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