[CS2] The Rachel Sanctuary (Free for all, some posts NSFW) 6.0!

[unsanctifier]

You know what... after this weekend, I've been thinking of learning him. He looks really fun, and I love playing characters with gdlk anti airs.

you're not tall enough

[kirbster]

[[SpA]Relentless]

4B should be kara-cancelable into a low move until frame 26 or so.

[Tari]

My computer is (mysteriously) working again after being unresponsive for over a week, so I now have access to recording equipment. Do we want to make a Rachel tutorial video?

[Chazmobile]

My computer is (mysteriously) working again after being unresponsive for over a week, so I now have access to recording equipment. Do we want to make a Rachel tutorial video?

I'm all for this. But, wouldn't it be better to wait for CSX? Seeing as it hits arcades this month and we should hopefully be getting it by December.

[Tari]

It would be arguably better to wait for CSX, but I figure we can try organizing a CS2 one just to get the, er, logistics out of the way for any future videos?

I don't really know, hence why I'm asking. Opinions are always welcome. :D

[Chazmobile]

I suppose we could cover the basics and core fundamentals of playing Rachel with a video done before CSX, seeing as her CSX incarnation hasn't changed dramatically.

After the update we could always do another video on more advanced techniques and what new options/tricks her changes have opened up for her.

[kotokot]

Rachel in csex is very similar to cs2, i think it'll be useful anyway. And we have to wait long 3 months for csex release.

[Sakaku]

I suppose we could cover the basics and core fundamentals of playing Rachel with a video done before CSX, seeing as her CSX incarnation hasn't changed dramatically.

After the update we could always do another video on more advanced techniques and what new options/tricks her changes have opened up for her.

Agreed.

It's not even announced when it will hit the US, is it? Maybe we have to wait another 2 months after the jp CSX (csex sounds terrible lol) release.

I could also record some stuff, just saying.

[Tari]

Other than the difficulties involved in sharing large video files, I don't see any reason not to have multiple people recording parts of the videos. That said, that one issue is a pretty tough one to work around.

Anyway, what exactly do we want to record, and how should we go about it? I don't think we can imitate the Ragna video (unless we decide to be far more CS2-specific with what we cover), so suggestions are all welcome here.

Also, while they might not be as fast this time around, Aksys has released the previous two games within a month of their Japanese releases. I'm hoping they keep it up.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Tari

[kotokot]

Agreed.

It's not even announced when it will hit the US, is it? Maybe we have to wait another 2 months after the jp CSX (csex sounds terrible lol) release.

I could also record some stuff, just saying.

for this i've got ntsc/j xbox. 6 months for pal release is a bit too much

csex sounds much sexier

[LuminAbyss]

Anyway, what exactly do we want to record, and how should we go about it? I don't think we can imitate the Ragna video (unless we decide to be far more CS2-specific with what we cover), so suggestions are all welcome here.

One thing we weren't worried about as far as the Ragna video goes was how much Ragna would change. Basically, he's the same in every game, but even a lot of his CS2 specifics (if the loketests hold true) will still be there, so covering CS2 Ragna topics wasn't a problem for us, they'll probably still be useful in CSX.

I don't know how to play as Rachel, but maybe you guys could cover things that would help if someone wanted to pick her up? Like, general things like how to get the hang of using the pumpkin and George in combos/neutral game/oki, as well as using the D button not for attacks, but for movement to assist with pressure and combos (which seriously threw me off whenever I was first trying out everyone in BB). There are plenty of videos for combos and such, so you shouldn't have to put too much time into something like that.

Just my suggestions, they're probably not good ideas.

[[SpA]Relentless]

No Lumin, I think you're right and those are good ideas.

Whenever people ask me about how to learn Rachel I still point them to kro_'s CT guide because apart from the combo section, 95% of it still applies to CS2 Rachel.

So doing a CS2 tutorial now will still help people in CSEX (best abbreviation ever lol).

[unsanctifier]

Yeah that's the idea Lumin.

Movement options, how to use wind as a defensive and offensive mechanic. Ideal situations, where you want your opponent to be, oki options, etc.

Stuff like that would make as a fair all around Rachel tutorial.

[kirbster]

Yeah Rachel doesn't seem like she's changing much so far, but if this were to happen I think maybe we should gather ideas now, but still do the vid for CSEX (lolol)

[gli]

Section off the video into something like:

• Rundown of her normals/movelist (20%)
  
• Select few Basic and Advanced combos (30%)
  
• Wind/Frog/Pumpkin usage (40%)
  
• Omake (10%)
  

Percentages are how much emphasis that section should be given.

[Kuuhaku]

You should also include rod placement and how to effectively use rods as traps (EX- airdashing with wind away from the opponent and setting off rods as you fly across the screen to catch them being careless and using rods to stop approaches from Hazama, Tao, etc.).

It's something that you kind of pick up intuitively of which rod is best to use at what distance, but a visual cue might help people out.

Stuff like winding seeds certain directions to try to read what the opponent will do or react to what an opponent likes to do (IE A cannon to see if they prefer to approach from the ground or the air) should also be included.

And since Rachel is very setup oriented (though I'm not sure if this would go under the section with wind/frog/pumpkin), some basic/advanced ways to setup pressure would probably also be very helpful to understanding how Rachel works.

But I agree. Combos are actually not the biggest of priorities when it comes to Rachel. Learning her zoning/pressure/neutral game is way more important. Combos kind of come later.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Bohemian Polka

[Tari]

kro's guide was and is still awesome. A large part of it is definitely still relevant to Rachel play.

Section off the video into something like:

• Rundown of her normals/movelist (20%)
  
• Select few Basic and Advanced combos (30%)
  
• Wind/Frog/Pumpkin usage (40%)
  
• Omake (10%)
  

Percentages are how much emphasis that section should be given.

I think the question is how many of those we should actually make for CS2, as it appears that quite a few people would rather we wait until CSX before we make a full tutorial video.

If we do do the normals, the way I saw us going about it was having a post/thread/etc. where people could post thoughts about each normal. Combos aren't too difficult to record and throw in there, as well. The hardest part is probably going to be the "how to play Rachel" part, and that section will probably require the most input from people before we can all agree it's acceptable.

As for omake... well, I don't know what we'd put there, but somehow I just remembered this.

Anyway, if we do decide to push the entire thing off until CSX, we should still try to work out what we want (which seems to be mostly Rachel zoning/playstyle at the moment, with a smattering of everything else) and how we're going to record/compile it all. If it does get pushed off, it'll probably be a good idea to add in the normals and combos sections.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Tari

[TD]

my suggestion is that the tutorial would be like kro's guide: combos, zoning, rushdown, defense, and misc stuff.

combo section would be of course, bnb's.

zoning would be an explanation of her specials and how wind can be used to affect them, and how to use 6a/6b properly.

rushdown would be an explanation of her normals, how george/pumpkin/wind is used in pressure, maybe a few ways around ib/barrier/backdash etc, maybe some mixup routes.

defense, well... what defense l guess a short explanation on 2c and universal options i.e barrier, ib, backdash.

misc... ldk what would go here.

basically what everyone is saying, but not being too similar to the rag video. plus kro's guide put into something visual would make learning rachel a cinch :3 whether you want to read it or see it, it'd be very informative.

[Tari]

Yeah, I don't really want to copy the Ragna video, either. Helps to have a common point of reference when thinking of what we want, though.

Basically, the problem right now boils down to whether or not we want to explain Rachel's normals in CS2 or not. This includes things like 6B (which is currently jump cancellable and therefore more amazing than it will be in CSX). If we do decide to include some normals, then we should probably include them all, just for completeness.

The rest of her playstyle (zoning, rtsd, etc.) generally doesn't change much, and is pretty much core to her design, so that stuff will definitely get covered no matter what.

[TD]

of course. dont let csx stop us, she didnt really change. we'd just put as a little side note that the properties of the move will change in csx. like saying (for 6b): "in csx, this move is no longer jump cancellable".

even better, a minisection that lists the cs2 -> csx changes.

[Kuuhaku]

Yeah. We could include a section for changes to her in CSX once her changes in the final release are known. The arcade release is not too far away and it's not like we can magically get this done overnight, so let's just worry about that when we get to it. Either way, we won't likely see console release until February (if not later), so it would still be helpful.

[Tari]

JPN console release is December, if I recall correctly.

So what we have right now is...

- Zoning

- Rushdown

- Other use of Rachel's tools (movement, spacing, stalling, etc.), and probably what to do when you have no wind

- Normals

- Combos

- Omake (?)

Sound about right?

[Kuuhaku]

Yeah. I just noticed that was announced. I thought Dec was Vita only.

But yeah, that sounds good. The order could use a little work though.

Normals

-Shouldn't need to extensively go into all of them, just mention what's used for important stuff (poking, spacing, anti-air, etc). And some important notes like 5B/2B are projectile property, etc.

Tools

-Same, just a basic explanation of what they are and generally how they're used with a few basic examples

Neutral

-General gameplans for how Rachel works.

Zoning

-How to control space with rods/pumpkin/george etc.

Rushdown/Offense

-Pressure strings/mix up. Should also put in some corner setups too. (maybe oki setups should go here idk?)

Defense

-Don't spam 2C like a retard. Wind tech, etc. CA is your friend.

Combos

-Basic windless combo, Meterless BnB, Metered BnB, corner version

Omake

^ would probably make more sense.

Even though Rachel doesn't have many defensive options, a small section for that should also be mentioned. Just stuff like wind tech, backdash/high jump/jump + wind, using pumpkin, rods, george defensively, the dangers of 2C (to make huey feel better).

Edited September 28, 2011 by Bohemian Polka

[[SpA]Relentless]

Neutral gameplay (what to do when noone has the advantage)

Oki (general tips & stuff, for example throw A lobelia after 5CC > frog oki to punish rolls and get a rod out for further mixups)

Maybe characterspecific tips that you might not find out yourself at first, but that's useful to know (for example wind tech out of Lambda's wheel oki, 3C to anticipate Noel's CA etc.)

Is some stuff I can think of off the top of my head. Don't know if those are enough on their own though.

"off-topic": I just realised N-O played Rachel since CT: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=151F6C61598AFA81