[VS] Victor: The Curse Of Frankenstein

[Kyle]

@realBobMan- Are you using MP or HP?

Edited June 5, 2013 by Kyle

[TheRealBobMan]

I tried both of them and neither worked (come on, I wouldn't try just one of the buttons and then whine on a forum - I really tried it for about 15 minutes straight at various heights and with both buttons before posting). I talked to a guy at the nearby arcade a few days after posting that and he told me that the range is stupid short and pretty much directly through Victor's mid-section, such that I have to be even in elevation with the opponent in the air for the throw to work. I haven't had time to try it out since then though. Is that accurate? Does it change based on the button used or something?

[Kyle]

At the bottom it shows standing Vic w/ a small yellow-box around him. this is his throw range. I ASSUME his air-throw is similar to the ground-throw box

http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Victor

ES-DP, LINK (hp)Lariet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJiiavXQ6Zs#t=44s

UB-St.lp, d.360, super(whiff), 720. OMFG:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEaknOxa3Gk#t=2m14s

Pursuit, whiff d.lp xx 720

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qik5RoM0e_4#t=2m58s

Landing-Low into double ES-Lariet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnFkFbKjUdk#t=1m8s

J.hp, walk-720, booty-shake, lk-whiff, 720

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znprlNTiQ2g#t=54s

Against tall crouchers- J.hp, cr.lp, RENDA cr.lp, ES-Headbutt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=974DNQtbpDU#t=5m5s

Standing only- cr.lp,cr.lk, LINK st.lp xx ES-Lariet, ES-Lariet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDCdr9Xu1Cs#t=4m26s

ES-Guard Cancel, LINK (hp)Lariet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koD5CEVLwhM#t=5m50s

Cross-up ground rolls w/ whiff-DP, Land, Grab:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koD5CEVLwhM#t=5m56s

Oboro being awesome:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxJkG8LLEcs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4f8ac8V24s

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxxd3uKPQ2k

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl8i4aDwgBE

www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Lm3NopEvE

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA7wsQUAtDA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGlPlp22KGQ

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEaknOxa3Gk#t=1m40s

www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5CErJBYcLU

Oboro vs Kame:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdoxp0yr1S0

Solid Play by Kame:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmazj9vz-HI

Edited June 5, 2013 by Kyle

[snuggleguns]

Posting some info posted on the facebook.

Jamie Obeso On Victor's punishes:

- Vic's most practical punishes are landing sweeps into pursuits:

1. E.C.Hk, ES Mega Crush does 10/31 damage. (remember, the damage readout in-game doesn't show pursuit damage correctly.)

2. E.C.Hk, Minimum Step, ES Pursuit does 10/35 damage. The timing for this isn't extremely tight, but you can't be lazy about it, either; you need to try and hit the E.C.Hk while BB Hood is as high up as possible, and you need to do the Minimum Step and Pursuit as early as possible.

- You can actually walk just a hair forward and punish landing with C.Lk -> E.S.Mp -> E.S.Mk -> E.S.Hk, ES Mega Crush. This does less damage if your timing is off, compared to if you do E.S.Mp/Hp too early; however, if your timing is late, you're probably a lot safer from landing grandma #2. This deals 24/50 damage and sets up his reset.

- Mega Forehead is the highest damage punish, but you will not be able to charge it in time, on reaction; you have to have already been charging back. Deals 29/40 damage if you do it late enough; do it too early and you won't get all the hits.

[Skankin Garbage]

Bear in mind, these punishes were specifically for punishing BB Hood's "Grandma" super. They are still perhaps valuable for punishing attacks that knock the opponent far back, or moves that have a small amount of landing frames (i.e, Demon Cradle). However, if you're punishing something where the opponent lands closer to you/has a lot of landing frames (i.e Beast Cannons), you can do much better counter-attacks than the ones posted above.

[Kyle]

Been trying a nifty reset of LINK cr.lk xx 623HK into a throw. At max range this is a neat tool to catch them scared/sleeping.

To input this, I have had the most success w/.

Late J.mk (Whiffs), land, cr.lk, LINK cr.lp, cr.lk, LINK 6321+lk, 3+hk, 720.

[Skankin Garbage]

So, a lot of players I fight, GGPO or anywhere, do absolutely everything they can to avoid getting command-thrown by Victor. A lot of trying to AG every attack they see, or mashing light attacks every time Vic is on the ground and they fail to get a GC.

You guys are doing it wrong. <-------- x999

Here's why:

1. Chain combos actually do more damage than Vic's 360 on most of the cast. Obviously, this isn't true for his 720, but you also don't have to mash to avoid a 720; if you block a Dashing LP or LK, you can likely guess what's coming next and jump (yes, jump-outs can be punished, too; but the main point here is to quell the possible rebuttal that people are mashing like fucking spazoids to avoid a 720. No, you're not.).

Granted, characters with above-average defense take more damage from the command throws, but that's only three characters. So, I *guess* if you play Sas, Bishamon, or incidentally, Victor, this argument is moot.

But, even if you don't agree or think that the damage difference isn't a big enough reason to stop freaking out at the though of a command throw...

2. Getting hit by a 360 leaves Victor with no way to continue applying pressure, unless in the corner. Vic only gets to keep applying pressure midscreen by landing a chain that ends with E.Hp, and even in the corner, the chain combos set up into themselves and lead to better mixups than simply landing a throw. Thus, trying to AG/Mash to avoid throws and leaving yourself extremely vulnerable to chain combos will ultimately see you taking more damage to any Victor player who catches on to what you're doing.

For reference, I've included under this paragraph a damage chart of Vic's basic chain damage, compared to his command throws. This is a good thing for Victor players to look at, too. It not only shows which characters take more/less damage from command throws compared to chains, but it also shows at what point scaling begins to favor 5-hit "chains" over 4-hit chains. It also clearly demonstrates that 6-hit "chains" offer no additional damage and typically are the lowest damage, making them only useful as a defensive hit-confirm.

Explanation of the chart:

4-Hit = C.Lk -> EC.Mp -> EC.Mk -> ES.Hp

5-Hit = C.Lk, C.Lp -> EC.Mp -> EC.Mk -> ES.Hp

6-Hit = C.Lp -> C.Lk, C.Lp -> EC.Mp -> EC.Mk -> ES.Hp

Throw = 360

Super = 720

® = This chain deals the most red damage or is tied for the most red damage compared to his other chains

(W) = This chain deals the most white damage or is tied for the most white damage compared to his other chains

A. Highest (Victor only):

4-Hit: 21/33 (R/W)

5-Hit: 20/33 (W)

6-Hit: 19/32

Throw: 22/37 (More than)

Super: 39/53

B. High (Bishamon, Sasquatch):

4-Hit: 22/35 (R/W)

5-Hit: 22/35 (R/W)

6-Hit: 21/35 (W)

Throw: 23/38 (More than)

Super: 40/54

C. Medium (Anakaris, B.B Hood, Demitri, Felicia, Jedah, Rikuo):

4-Hit: 24/39 ®

5-Hit: 24/40 (R/W)

6-Hit: 22/39

Throw: 23/39 (Less than)

Super: 40/54

D. Low (Q-Bee, Rapter, Talbain):

4-Hit: 25/40 ®

5-Hit: 25/41 (R/W)

6-Hit: 23/40

Throw: 24/40 (Less than)

Super: 40/54

E. Lowest (Hsien-Ko, Lilith, Morrigan):

4-Hit: 26/41 ®

5-Hit: 26/42 (R/W)

6-Hit: 25/42

Throw: 24/40 (Less than)

Super: 40/54

So hopefully, this information will help Victor players make informed choices about what types of attacks they want to perform, as well as demonstrate to Victor opponents that the actual worst thing about getting hit by a command throw is that it feels a little embarrassing, but that it might actually be good to leave yourself open for it if it means avoiding chain combo loops.