Shazam Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Ahhh, the infamous "only bad matchup" outside of maybe Makoto. There's a lot going on in this match, Hakumen can be one of the harder matches for any character, and will definitely ruin your day if you let him. You have to remain calm, as you have an answer to everything This match I feel is about playing tricky, if you try to get too offensive or stick too much to any one approach you'll end up punished. From Haku's perspective: J2a will cut 6d 4c will cut 5d etc you get the picture, if you go throwing chains around like it's nobody's business you're gunna get a nasty orb which often mess up your escape, and if you run into one they have decent proration for combos although i'm not sure just how decent. You have to try and read the Haku. There's a lot that he can do with his meter and he's building it constantly. If they're overly friendly with the D moves you grab or bait and 3c ch. Try to bait his yukikaze counter super with a grab because this can cost you a match. Bait the shit out of yukikaze's with stance or just block if you don't want to take a risk. As mentioned in my vs Ragna guide it's pretty apparent that you should not mash out hotenjin against really anyone, and Haku is definitely not an exception. Want to get 5d'd, TK hotaru'd, or blocked? What about yukikaze'd? Air grabs seem really useful here but they always are. This match is very dependent on each players specific style. The key word is adaptation. You either have it or not and it will become apparent quick. Watch out for hotaru's or 623a grab shenanigans, run away from Mugen, remember that one wrong mistake means potentially losing the round. Try using a weird timing on your chains if they're good at cutting them. Cancel the shits and throw out another, or go in for an air grab. Definitely interested in seeing what other people have to think about this one because sometimes I get bodied by Hakumen players. Please contribute.
Zeron_X25 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) 214D~B to catch him if he tries getting in from the air. He really can't punish it. 2C is good but his j.B, j.2C and j.C have such long ranges that you will sometimes get hit and 2C will whiff. Bait out the counters and punish them with command grab or 6A overhead/6B low into Houtenjin IF you have meter. If not, go for command grab. Watch out for Yukikaze because Hazama's chains will make it activate(also his astral) and you can't move because his chains are both projectiles and physical moves at the same time. So don't just spam snakes on him from fullscreen because you can get Yukikaze'd. Don't try air grabbing too much. His j.C and j.2A are really scary air to air pokes that will shut down any air grab attempts or any air to air in general. Best way to air grab is doing it from tech traps. Make your opponent tech in the air and immediately grab them. Don't mash buttons after his 6A. Watch out for Hotaru. It's really scary DP. Edited July 22, 2011 by Zeron_X25
Dusty Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 This match in CS2 is in Hazama's favor imo. Hakumen's lower damage means you can take more risks and he has to hit you more. You can easily run away from Hakumen all day and you can punish him for trying to cut chains (The risk reward for attempting to cut certain chains is not in Hakumen's favor). Most importantly you can rush Hakumen down easily and there's hardly anything he can do about it if you play smart. Oh and you can combo off 214D~A, which makes 214D~C even easier to hit in this match up. Note: TK hotaru is not a true DP
ZeroRaider Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Lets not forget it whiffs a crouching Haz if they aren't RIGHT in his face. I can agree with Dusty on cutting chains, its really not too risky for Hazama now with Hakumen's nerfs.
_Sey Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 When you guys say "punish him for trying to cut chains", to what situations/punishes are you refering to? Are you talking about stuff like (chain)~A > hakumen whiffs > another chain > ..., or is there something a bit more specific to the Hakumen match up?
Hazmat Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I usually take the approach to this match-up with lame him the hell out and be done with it, you can't be predictable with your chains at all. It depends on the Haku you are playing. Overly aggressive, counter happy or whatever but never chase after Haku and only go in on hit conformed chains. I'm not sure if our 2A beats all his crouched moves or not. Mash 2D if you wanna get out the ever so dreadful corner against him or else
Zeron_X25 Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 It's generally baiting him with D~As that are close to him but not his sword range. I haven't really seen any CS2 Hakumens trying to cut my chains though. His best tool for cutting chains is j.2A.
Dusty Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Indeed j.2A his his best option for cutting chains, it has a 15 frame recovery so you can punish him for wiffing, or he's going to block in the air which he does not want to do.
Fluck Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Hakumen's aim in CS2 is to get you to the corner and rape you there. Sounds like every other char in CS2, but it is especially important for Hakumen since the difference between his midscreen and corner damage is very, very big. Try to chain away if you're near/in the corner. Tsubaki is a very good option with Hakumen, it's a decently fast overhead and more importantly it has very good corner carry and untechable time, he can convert Tsubaki into a big 5-6k corner loop combo at a location you would not expect. Worth watching out for.
Sputnik Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Your 3C > his 4C if you notice them using it at the start of rounds consistently for some reason make sure you grab a free combo.
Shazam Posted July 23, 2011 Author Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) It's unreliable really to go for a 3c on that note. He can start his first round with 4c and then use 3c on round 2 and get a free counter hit on you. A lot of online Haku's do start out their matches with 4c though, and if you feel like it you can go for a dash 3c but it's taking a risk. I'd say J2a is his biggest threat here, but the thing is not a lot of them know how to use it properly. Anyone have any ideas on what to do against a Haku who likes to spam super jump air dash j2a? This happened to me awhile ago and I could not figure out what to do and got owned, my chains would get cut or he'd use it in when I was in the air and it basically worked every time. Anyone want to volunteer to rewrite the first post? My post is not a solid first post and despite playing Haku I don't face very strong ones often so I think someone else should write up the 'legit' first post. Edited July 26, 2011 by Shazam
Warriorkiller Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 just bait it then 214D~B works wonders agains't Haku this move really...
Dusty Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 I'll rewrite it when I get the time, and I'll also talk to spark about his thoughts/mindset/and gameplan about this match up.
mikenapalm Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 This is a match where you really have to pay attention due to how brainless hakumen can be with his drive. If they like to press 2D a lot do something like 5B > 6A to get a counterhit as they may be doing something like pressing 2D after every attack. 5D is really active and I'm pretty sure you can 3C CH him for it on reaction. 5D will also catch on either side of him so it can really shut down a cross up attempt. You're gonna wanna do a lot of empty jump ins and dropped pressure to see if and how they press the D button. Grab them if you see that flash. Both 3C and J6D can beat Haku's 4C. Haku's 3C will knock you out of stance. An average Haku will try to D the follow up. A good haku just won't let you get there. Watch for when he has two stars. Hotaru will beat just about everything you do. Remember to barrier it in the air. If he does 623AA and doesnt hit confirm before jumping. Just jump up and throw him for it.
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