ShadowFiend Posted September 9, 2011 Posted September 9, 2011 Run away and spam chains in this matchup. even if you get negative penalty none of that matters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB94fdg9tCw&list=PL3DE4F109FF6BD4DD&index=58#t=04m55s
Shazam Posted September 9, 2011 Posted September 9, 2011 Thank you for linking that here, I love that match <3 Poor Tager. I know it hurts x_x
mikenapalm Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 Special cancel 5d. All the chain hits are special cancelable. You can 5d > Jabaki, 6d > Jakou... Hell I'm pretty sure you can 5d > Command Grab. 5D xx Jayoku is also a good one to use. I personally don't like playing keep away against Tagers. I feel like I'm putting the match in their hands and letting them run their gameplan. I feel that a healthy dose of RTSD is exactly the cure for throwing Tager off. Do your 214DA enders and have your oki. Don't let Tager think for a moment it's his turn to press buttons. 3C is an amazing tool against a ton of Tagers moveset. Fuck you, sledge, 2D, 6A, 5D, 4D, and Collider. Thanks for playing. JA is too good in this match up. It gets you out of gadget mix up almost free. You can also do like 5 of them on him before landing or jump cancel it into another string of JAs! JA x N> airthrow if you catch him barrier blocking in the air for some TRM shit. 6C oki should beat back dash, 360/720, normal throw, gold burst, and collider on wake up if you time it right. I like using 214DB to anti-air him more than 2C because of the way his J2C moves his hitbox up more. Well timed command grabs can ruin some of Tagers tick 360s and wake up 720s. You can also catch him out of sledge and maybe 2D with it. 214DA throw this out in your strings to keep Tager honest. It'll beat him churning or mashing throw. J5DD dj J5DD. this worked a lot better in CS1 when the Oroborous gauge refilled to 2 on hit or block, but it should still work just as well in CS2. It works by jumping and aiming a chain right for tager's head, use the D follow up to fling yourself over him. Once you're well on the other side, double jump(you dont need to double jump if you use super jump to start) to change sides and launch another one. Use the D follow up once more and fling yourself over him again. From here on out, you'll automatically side switch. Just launch another chain whenever you see Hazama face Tager and repeat. As far as I know, Tager can do nothing about this aside from instant blocking the chain and an air throw attempt. If you see the IB and think he'll try it just A cancel on him. Natural wake. By teching with down while you're on the ground, you'll do a natural wake up. This wake up is throw invulnerable. I don't think I need to say much more on that. Pressure strings: 2A x N - anti buttons 5B JA x N - overhead anti buttons, pressure extension JA x N dJA xN - more overhead anti buttons, mix up 2A 214DA- anti throw 214DA 214DA - anti throw/ 360 2A 236C- standard tick throw 2A J2147B - anti command grab punish, anti 360/ throw and maybe even anti buttons. Tager notes: Never never roll tech on Tager. You'll eat tech traps all day. Neutral tech is the least punishable I believe. Learn his 720 traps. Ive seen people still use B sledge (combo) A sledge (whiff) 720 from back in CT. Gadget RC something or another into 5D. Stop pressing buttons and be ready to throw tech. Out of gadget fingers with meter, smart Tagers will MTW to beat out Jayoku. If they have the meter to rapid it, slowly buffer 236236( I believe you're in auto guard through till the last hit.) as soon as you see that red flash finish the motion and press B+C. This should get you a Jayoku if they go for a 360, or tech if they mess up or try to purple throw you. Alright I think I'm done for the night.
Shazam Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 I like to call this matchup "Do whatever the fuck you want and you will still win" I also like to play extremely free and lose most of my health and then run them back while they don't get a single hit on me. Trololol, netplay tactic only. As you can see by the vid negative penalty literally doesn't matter in this match. Thanks mikenapalm for giving us some ways on how to beat up Tager. I usually go for RTSD too in this matchup because Hazama's j.a and j.b have magical anti-Tager properties to them and Tager eats counter hits off obvious fly ins a LOT. I encourage you all to play this matchup as Tager at least once to get a feel for how bad he really has it. That's a nice bunch of tricks you've got listed up there mike :3 let's keep this free matchup as free as possible.
mikenapalm Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Being obvious about being in the air is asking to get 2C'd. Tager's 2C is the bane of my existence. Relatively fast start up, instant low profile, fatal counter hit, fat hitbox and hits behind him. Bait this shit whenever you can.
JoshuaBlaze Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 The idea isn't really to be that close to Tager, anyway. You'd really only close in on a hit confirm. The flying over the head thing is too fast for 2C to catch so long as you hit Tager with a chain to make sure he's blocking. The only time you'd be in the air and in range is to jump away from a failed attempt at mixup, or after a really short combo ending in 214D~A. And then, he wouldn't 2C you, he's probably AC ya at that range, and considering you're jumping away 2C wouldn't have the fatal properties. At least this is my thinking behind the situation. Its not like you'd ever need to be closer for any reason other than to take risks or on D hit confirm....or to counter stupid sledges.
mikenapalm Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Or just get in the cause your everything is considerably better. I like playing a game where Tager can't press buttons more than I like Tager doing things.
JoshuaBlaze Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 But at the same time, you're giving him opportunities to IB 360 something. Granted that's not gonna be easy so long as you keep your feet off the ground often enough, but I suppose you take certain risks either way. Zoner and rushdown. Its pretty easy to play just about anyway with anyone against Tager...so ya know.
Zeron_X25 Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Tager has the advantage in his 5C range. Don't go in that range and don't use stance mixups and always end your gatling combo with Jabaki. A good Tager won't let you get away with stupid shit up close. You have to lame him out and get a hit on him when he loses his cool.
mikenapalm Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Tager has the advantage in his 5C range. A good Tager won't let you get away with stupid shit up close. You have the advantage anytime you're in 5A range. And I never said to do stupid shit against Tager. Play up close but very smart. Doing strings that shut down multiple options like the ones I've listed about will frustrate Tagers to no end.
JoshuaBlaze Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Sure, but it seems silly to take unnecessary risks like that. I mean isn't the reason Hazama has such an advantage over Tager is because of his amazing mobility? Why not use that advantage? At least then if you mess up, you probably won't be as terribly punished if you were to mess up your string. Besides, a good IB will let Tager go through your string and 360 you. 6B, if remember right, is the only move where Hazama has an advantage on block, so everything else leave room for something like a 360. If it works, that just means you're a better player than me, but, quite honestly, it just seems stupidly risky to get in Tager's face like that. No matter how smart you are, you will mess up, and Tager WILL make sure you realize how badly you messed up.
mikenapalm Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 2A, 5B, 214DA, 236D all have frame advantage. 5A is even.
Shazam Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Not to mention all b and c moves are safe with gatlings and/or jump cancels. Combine zoning and running away with explosions of rushdown and you'll be even deadlier. Come on, it's Tager. Don't do stupid shit and you will win. You don't have to commit to anything.
mikenapalm Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Not to mention all b and c moves are safe with gatlings and/or jump cancels. Combine zoning and running away with explosions of rushdown and you'll be even deadlier. Come on, it's Tager. Don't do stupid shit and you will win. You don't have to commit to anything. This guy gets it. With the ability to special cancel moves that you can't jump cancel to 214DA you just took Tagers biggest tool away from him.
Shazam Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Woops sorry, I forgot about 6b and 6c, which definitely can't be normally cancelled. Though they are still relatively safe if you use them properly. I try, dedication and character love have taken me pretty far with Haz. Also you don't always have to do 3c into 214d~a, you can use your other options from stance as well, it's basically taking a risk for more damage potential. Stance cancel after 3c however is asking for trouble in nearly any case. I also like the idea of 5d vs autoguard sledge into 236c. It's gunna be a sad day when those invulnerable frames are gone. Oh well, flashkick(s) ftw!
Shazam Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 This is how to properly fight Tager. Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVP8RNfeqs4
mikenapalm Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Yep that looks about right. He played very balanced and did some smart rush ins. Abused the hell out of JA up close and made some good reactions. This would be around ideal play as you keep your up close and far away game varied to keep your opponent guessing and not fall into a pattern.
Dusty Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 No offense but that Tager player was a bit dumb.
mikenapalm Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 He was playing the right way. He held downback =3
ShadowFiend Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Thank you for linking that here, I love that match <3 No problem, hazama is my sub so i have to help out my hazama brothers too :D
ZeroRaider Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 I always lol when I see this matchup always get the most posts.
mikenapalm Posted September 16, 2011 Posted September 16, 2011 Tager: how much stupid shit can one character take?
Shazam Posted September 16, 2011 Posted September 16, 2011 Only beats scrubs, and at that usually just online? Check. Extremely gimmicky and situational? Check. Blocking a lot? Check. Extremely slow? Yep. Take all of this, and make sure that every matchup forum on dustloop has a nice and detailed thread with several different ways to get around your techniques. Welcome to playing Tager. Honestly though, it's pretty worth it to just play as Tager online. You will have a blast. Taking him to the tournament is just probably not the greatest idea. This ain't GG. Personally i'd like to see Tager just a bit better. Not in the LAST spot would be nice for once. Pretty unlikely though. Tager mains, if you are reading this, you should just pick up Hazama. Maybe at least Hakumen for proper defensive play :3
MetalMaelstrom Posted September 16, 2011 Posted September 16, 2011 @4:22 in the video Shazam posted, I lol'd so hard when the Tager airplaned his way into Hazama's astral.
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