[CS2] Taokaka vs Hazama

[Domethieus]

Making this post to give people and newer players a general idea of where you want to be when fighting/approaching hazama. The most important thing to remember in this matchup is that hazama cannot zone tao with chains so long as she is constantly moving and changing her current position.

Where you want hazama to be- Generally I try to keep Hazama mid-screen my reason for this is because if he gets a random 6D/4D, 623D his best option is 3C, 214D-A for oki because of tao being too far from the corner to get jabaki to wall bounce. Despite how good hazama's pressure is his damage midscreen is really low unless he has 50 heat or got a counter hit 5C,3C, and or random 214D-C hit. So long as the match is played mid-screen tao is definitely is at an advantage in terms of damage out put and meter gain.

Where you Tao want to be- For the most part tao wants to avoid being in the corner for too long, using her superior mobility to dodge chains and slowly approach taking as little damage as possible. Staying in the air space between 4D,6D in the air is highly recommended and extremely advantageous seeing as how tao can quickly use J.4D to punish 4D/6D on whiff from closer distances. With proper usage of triple jumps and a good mix of ground/air movement getting in on hazama isn't to problematic just avoid being predictable with your movement.

Blocked chains/hazama approaches-Despite how great tao's mobility is you have to be really gdlk to avoid blocking a chain for an entire match, but rest assured I find that tao has very good options against hazama chain approaches. Hazama's IAD doesn't travel far and he can't run, so all he really has is his chains to zone and approach from high speed angles. I'll break your options into two sections "instant block options" and "normal block options"....

*Normal block*

1)Tao can crawl all his air normal's bearing J.2C thus making it one of the best options you have on block chain seeing as how J.2C isn't good for approaching you can easily switch the momentum on a blocked chain to your favor by simply crawling his j.B/J.A (most commonly used normal's to approach with chains) and using 2A to force him blocking.

2)Tao's 6A has gotten one frame slower so it trades/loses to couple of things now, in CS1 you could 6A all his chain approaches regardless of the distance but now it's much more distance specific in usage. Hazama needs to be approaching from much further in order for 6A to anti air him on normal a lot of the time it will just point blank lose out to j.6D-D, j.B approaches. The only good thing about 6A is that it will always beat J.2C and if hazama chooses to C cancel his chain 6A will hit him despite him being behind you (lol BB hitboxes), but being overall inconsistent and hazama having a relative ease baiting anti air's it's the option I suggest using the least if your not familiar with the distance in which it should be used. As for the tao veterans use it sparingly and with good judgement of distance.

3) This last one is a little weird and I haven't really used it too much myself but I assure it works. Crouch blocking the chain is actually better than blocking it standing apparently outside of j.2C tao's crouching hit box goes under his J.b and j.a and it forces hazama to cancel into his air normal later than he would normally in order for it not to whiff. This allows for tao to use 5B as an anti air since he has to delay his input in order for it not to whiff on her crouching. Now if the hazama cancels into his normal immediately anti air 5B will not work and you will eat counter hit damage, but if you choose to stay crouching you can use 2A as an anti air as it will go right under j.B and j.A. The only thing to keep in mind is that anti air 2A will lose to his j.2C. So all in all this is a very risky option and requires you to know exactly what normal hazama will be using and observing the time in which he cancels his chains.Alternatively hazama can choose not to approach in which case you will recover from 5B before he can actually punish.

*Instant Block*

1) Anti air 5B now becomes the least riskiest option and no longer loses to any of his air normals not even j.2C so long as you time it properly (slight delay compared to j.b and j.a). Seeing as how 5B 6 frames it will be almost impossible to punish it on whiff due to how fast it recovers, but unfortunately a 6 frame air unblockable anti air it far too perfect to be 100% full proof, 5B will not auto correct itself when hazama does (chain),C cancel,j.B so you will whiff and be force to eat damage. Still this is an option that should not be forgotten and definitely has it's uses.

2)Crawl, nothings changes still faces the same problems of J.2C but remains a good option due to how bad it is for hazama to approach with J.2C.

3)6A is now insanely more consistent I want to say full proof,but I haven't tested it all that much to really be certain. Still due to hazama being able to alter his chain in momentum I find it still hard to use properly and if you lack the reactions easily punishable on whiff.

When to NOT approach hazama- Never ever try to come at hazama when he is at the distance in which he can get a 4D/6D,623D, Jabaki wall bounce combo, not only does it build him good meter it takes away tao's only legit wakeup option without 50 heat which is her above average back dash. Mid screen you can back dash his 2A,2A anti roll setup on wake up after a 3C,214D-A emergency tech, but in the corner hazama catches your backdash for free into either big damage (hit confirm corner specific houtenjin combo) or more meter putting you back in the same situation in the corner with less health. Another thing to watch out for is when hazama has his back against the corner, tao does deal more damage in the corner than mid-screen but her mix up is much weaker due to losing her cross ups. Sure you have the corner specific option of 2A,5B,IAD J.2B, 214D,j.A,hit confirm into J8D-A loop, but due to how vulnerable it is to mashing and his anti air 5A it's generally not a good idea, Plus if he blocks it now your back is to the corner and he can score bigger damage and meter gain than before.

Hazama being too flashy?- A lot of good hazama players have really good movement and understanding of his chain cancels and they have all these flashy ways of getting on on people. As nice as this movement is it doesn't work against tao all to much and is more advantageous for tao than it is for hazama. If you find your self fighting a hazama being to fancy with his movement it's safe to start fishing for high in the air counter hit J.D's, for the most part the constant movement wastes his Ouroborous stocks which will eventually leave him grounded for sometime and force to eat some pressure strings before returning to the skies.

Hazama air normal's too good- His air normal's such as J.B,J.A and occasionally 214.B are very good for keeping J.D mashing in the air at bay, generally I treat it the same way I treat everyone else's a constant switch between Air movement and ground movement nothing much else can be said about it besides that if you are having problems please redirect yourself to my post in the "tao vs Bang CS2" section for tips.

Final- Approaching hazama can be a risky task having such good normal's and anti airs a lot of your damage will have to come from a strong neutral game, knowing how to keep the pressure and knowing when to back off his key in this match up IMO. Generally if you see them almost all the way on the corner and you have the health lead just lay back and wait for him to come to you everything else really comes down to who has the better spacing/movement. Stay patient, don't mash and avoid being hit at all cost.

--Neo

Edited October 10, 2011 by Domethieus

[ThaMusli]

Snakes D:<

I have a hard time vs my local hazama and hazmas in general. I find it very tough to approach haza from the air aswell as the ground. Almost always gets punished with chains or stance reversal for trying to drive in. While applying pressure i try to bait reversals and antiairs as much as i can for punishes.

Does anyone know when to anti air haza if he drags himself after a blocked drive? Even when i IB my 6a gets punished much more than it hits.

My impression of this matchup is to block chains and incoming blockstrings most of the match, baiting ALOT and losing when i eat a random counterhit into massive herpderp damage

[CrazyApe]

I try not to block his 5D's instead I crawl and if he 5B's in the air he will wiff and I get a free 5B combo. I know it isn't the best strat but it is all I got.

[XDest]

I would do the same, but 6A instead. Also generally Tao's j.D beats j.6D but loses to Hazama's j.D.

The main thing to look out for here is 214D~B. Do a lot of jump ins with barrier to safely come in, it has really deceptively large range both horizontally and vertically. If you drive into it you will be losing 3k at least.

[Ch3äZy]

Disregard this.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Ch3äZy

[NeoGio0o]

lol this information is insanely wrong/inconsistent ...come on guys we have training mode for a reason please use it to avoid posting false information to newer players.

Crazyape your on the right track hang in there, as for everyone else I pray for your safety in the battle vs terumi.

[Zeron_X25]

6A beats 214D~B and 214D~C, I believe. Just watch out for 214D~A.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. You mean stance? Because 214D~B is a DP... so...

[Ch3äZy]

Yeah I was mistaken and doing my move before the hit. Sorry about that.

[Cryingvoid]

Tao's 6a actually doesn't beat Hazama's 214D~ overhead on reaction. It can beat it, but it must be timed close to 'just frame', so better beat it with 5a instead, just to be on a safe side. You can follow up your successful 5a with 6a as a setup anyway.

[NeoGio0o]

Tao's 6a actually doesn't beat Hazama's 214D~ overhead on reaction. It can beat it, but it must be timed close to 'just frame', so better beat it with 5a instead, just to be on a safe side. You can follow up your successful 5a with 6a as a setup anyway.

Hmmm I wonder what other tao normal is 7 frames and can be followed up by 6A....though since you will be hitting hazama out the air you should do 5C into j8D-A loop.

*hint* has a small hurt box and it's a low =3.

[Cryingvoid]

NeoGio0o

I'm afraid, that even 12 framed 6A, even when perfectly timed off IB, can defeat or trade with Hazama's 214D~ overhead only due to 6A's head invulnerability. Doubt 10 framed 5C will do the task.

Thing is, I guess, other cast's, more powerful AA's can beat Hazama's 214D~ overhead better - like Makoto's or Mu's ones. On the other hand, Tao's 6A has a convenient 2-hit specific, but it's invulnerability is limited.

You mean 2B can beat it? Haven't tried that one, but it is hard to believe.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Cryingvoid

[Zeron_X25]

You don't even need to AA Ressenga. Just don't mash buttons if you're not sure he's going to Ressenga. Getting hit by Zaneiga or a frametrap by Hazama means 5k + 60-70 meter for Hazama. Against my Hazama, what works best is chicken blocking because if you learn to mash during my pressure, I'll make you afraid of doing so. Stance can also be canceled to bait small hitbox DPs such as Mu's and 5A/2A mash.

Best way to get out of Hazama's pressure is just barrier jump away and if you expect a crossup j.2C or anything like that, jump air grab. It works great when I play Tager against other Hazamas.

Also note that his command grab will catch you most of the time if you try to mash out anything but a DP. He can do it off a lot of things and he can tick grab you at any minute even after another command grab.

[Cryingvoid]

He is one you don't want to block for too long though, since all those highs and lows with 'invisible' startup animation. Same hot engines into same 5-6 kays :3

[Zeron_X25]

He is one you don't want to block for too long though, since all those highs and lows with 'invisible' startup animation. Same hot engines into same 5-6 kays :3

The overhead isn't a problem at all since he can't combo off it on anyone except Hakumen and Tager. Blocking low should be your priority. It's just that no one has ever blocked Hazama's 6A so far so you should look out for that.

[Ronove]

You mean 2B can beat it? Haven't tried that one, but it is hard to believe.

It does, though it is still risky because the Hazama may pick the Zaneiga route instead.

Also it is a good idea to buffer a 5C or a 6A right after the 2B for easier hitconfirm.

[Cryingvoid]

Wait... his elbow overhead is no problem? I mean, everyone does hot engine right off it, isn't that right?

It does

Wow... There are a lot of Hazama's spamming that Rasenga loop on block constantly. Gotta teach them a lesson some time

Edited September 19, 2011 by Cryingvoid

[Zeron_X25]

Wait... his elbow overhead is no problem? I mean, everyone does hot engine right off it, isn't that right?

Elbow overhead is 6A. That's what I just told you to look out for. Ressenga is the stance overhead and I said not to bother mashing. I guess you could if you wanna take the risk but even not blocking it won't net him much. lol

[Cryingvoid]

Zeron_X25

Now I get it, thanks a lot. Should get more practice against him anyways.

[Zeron_X25]

Zeron_X25

Now I get it, thanks a lot. Should get more practice against him anyways.

Actually... best way of getting out of Hazama's pressure is let him hit you with Ressenga and then jump out. He can't do anything about it.

[NeoGio0o]

NeoGio0o

I'm afraid, that even 12 framed 6A, even when perfectly timed off IB, can defeat or trade with Hazama's 214D~ overhead only due to 6A's head invulnerability. Doubt 10 framed 5C will do the task.

Thing is, I guess, other cast's, more powerful AA's can beat Hazama's 214D~ overhead better - like Makoto's or Mu's ones. On the other hand, Tao's 6A has a convenient 2-hit specific, but it's invulnerability is limited.

You mean 2B can beat it? Haven't tried that one, but it is hard to believe.

Ok since this might take months I'll just help with this minor topic. 6A is inconsistent in beating 214D-A and unless you want to eat 4K when you trade with his 214D-C I suggest you heed my words of wisdom. Even though I highly suggest just IB'ing level 1 Ressenga and just mashing 5B since he would be at -1 and is force to block or eat counter hit damage, some people would rather just not block all together if your going to try and stop the stance use 1B and hit confirm it into 5C. Now the reason why I say 1B is because even if he attempts to do a frame trap using jabaki,2C,5B so long as your holding down back and pressing B (1B) you will block all frame frame traps so long as you pressed it once (think of it like the throw break option select).

NOTE-This doesn't do to well to 2A,2A,2A stagger pressure due to how air tight it is so please keep this in mind. As for things like 2A,(delay),normal just don't instant block the 2A and you should be fine.

Examples of how it works:

any normal(s), 214D-A= 2B 5C into loop.Forgot to mention if hazama cancels 5C or 3C into stance over head you have to instant block the 5C/3C in order to use 2B, on normal block you can use 5B or crawl it on reaction. If your not comfortable with instant blocking simply doing a late back dash will work just fine.

any normal(s), 214D-C=2B 5C 236A (your out of range to do 6A).Other option you have is 5B,2b,6A (5B,6A will whiff he stance cancels from 5C/3C) and as always a late back dash gets the job done just fine.

any normal,214D-B(this is a counter hit setup used to score big damage on people mashing their way out of stance)=This one is a bit tricky in the sense that you really need to get the timing just perfect I recommend practicing with this since if done wrong you will hear a nice loud counter,but if done properly 2B will not come out and it's simply a matter of blocking and punishing. Sometimes 2B will duck right under the flash kick if they cancel their stance a little late which makes it easier to punish,the most important thing is to not to do it to early or you will be in a world of hurt.Other options include back dash,barrier jump away,crawl.

any normal(s), jabaki(simple counter hit setup but he doesn't get much damage of it)=2B will not come out on normal block only. (no punish jabaki is +1 and pushes you back pretty far). Other options you have off instant block are crawl 3C punish,and as always back dash.

2A,5B,6A=you HAVE to instant block 5B or else you get killed. If you instant blocked you can do 2B into 6A,but I highly recommend just Instant blocking his overhead (-8) and doing 5B,6A as your punish.On regular block his overhead is -5 so your in the clear to do dash 5B and start your pressure/hit confirm into loop if they don't block. You can also simply back dash the over head without having to instant block anything and punish the recovery frames.

2A,5B,J2C=If done properly you should slide under his instant air dash animation.If done wrong you hear a nice loud counter.

Your last and final option is jumping away from the stance mixup and avoiding it all together,but you can not jump away from his 6A without barrier guarding as it is air unblockable (be careful of air grabs).

SIDE NOTE- I have tested all the possible stance cancel normals and rest assured this works so long as you block all the normal's before the stance. As for hazama delaying his normal's, so far I have not found a time where this did not work when I did not instant block,outside of when he used his command grab in which case I got throw countered.Generally you want to use this technique when he is out side command grab range and when they are really relying on stance to reset the pressure. You can also crawl 214D-A,214D-B,Jabaki, and switch the momentum in your favor just be careful of 214D-C,you wont be in counter hit state, but 214D-C leads to an easy 3k+ and has a lot of push back on block. Alternatively You can use 5B but due to having no range it's not recommended. Generally you want to pretty much switch between all your options and not always go for one or they will catch on and mix things up for some scary damage,I personally suggest back dashing as of outside J.2C setups it's the safest option next to crawl and it returns tao back to her great neutral game. 2B should only be use if you really got the read on your opponent,on reaction, or on lower level players who rely on stance over head to reset their pressure and perform predictable block strings to accomplish this task. Though if your willing to take the risk the 2B technique can definitely make your opponent scared to use stance and could possibly just force them to eliminate it from their mix up arsenal thus making your job of survival much easier.

NEVER USE 6A TO ANTI AIR HIS CHAIN APPROACHES EVEN ON IB IT'S HIGHLY INCONSISTENT AND VERY RISKY.

*HINT*- to stop chain approaches you would need to avoid the aerial normal that is coming. what does tao have to avoid aerial normals?

Your answer should be full proof if you block the chain, but it will lose to his j.2C. Good luck =3

Will be editing this post every now and then for accuracy since I kinda rushed it a bit.

Edited September 20, 2011 by NeoGio0o
Accuracy

[Cryingvoid]

Thanks for a thorough reasoning, Neo!

offtop: I wish there was a decent strategy like this against Bang's pressure.

[NeoGio0o]

Thanks for a thorough reasoning, Neo!

offtop: I wish there was a decent strategy like this against Bang's pressure.

I'll do bang later today probably since it wont take to long seeing how legit his pressure is lol @ 6A and 623B. Probably will do a post on general positioning of haz vs tao as it's very underrated in it's importance in the match up. If I have time I will do something like this for every match up for archive purposes and so that people can start some discussions on the final month(s) of CS2 relevancy.

[ThaMusli]

Second the thanks from crying void. Those advises have helped me alot.

[C0R]

Actually... best way of getting out of Hazama's pressure is let him hit you with Ressenga and then jump out. He can't do anything about it.

Ressenga is +2 on block and hit against a standing opponent (assuming you get hit standing). Because of this he will be able to catch you out of jump startup with his 5f 5a or his 6f 2a, as you'd be in your 3rd/4th frame of jump startup when it lands. It's the same option he has against people trying to upback out of Ressenga on block.

Edited September 22, 2011 by C0R

[Zeron_X25]

Ressenga is +2 on block and hit against a standing opponent (assuming you get hit standing). Because of this he will be able to catch you out of jump startup with his 5f 5a or his 6f 2a, as you'd be in your 3rd/4th frame of jump startup when it lands. It's the same option he has against people trying to upback out of Ressenga on block.

He can't catch you out of your jump if you block Ressenga. I just tried it in training mode. I tried getting hit by it and pushing 7 but I think it depends on how close Ressenga hits you because I did block the 5A/2A after the Ressenga.