Rhannmah Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 Well with the list of known nerfs and what we just saw, I can't think that it looks good. Serori is not some random shmuck, he knows how to play. But yes, we REALLY need more videos.
[SpA]Relentless Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 From two recent videos: Corner: 6A(CH) > 6A > BBL --> 2792dmg --> 214A > 5CC > 236A > sj9 j.2C(Lv2) > 2A(w) > 5CC pumpkin oki (3920dmg) Corner: 214A > 5B > 236A > (frog hits) > 6A > BBL --> 3132dmg --> sj8D > j.236A(w) > j.2C(Lv3) > 214A > 5CC > 236A (frog hits) > sj9 j.2C(Lv2) > 2A(w) > 5CC > 3C(1) > 214C > 3C(1) frog oki (5364dmg) Someone compare this to CS2 please
TD Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 sj8d j236a(w) j2c lv3 still works? l thought that was out?
[SpA]Relentless Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 Nope, it's still in. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15841613 at 5:55
TD Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 ah, alright. first combo, cs2=4228. from only up to bbl, it's 2402. second combo= 5648. from only up to bbl, its 3471. around 3-400 damage difference. negligible. seems like everything for the most part about her corner combos are unchanged besides bbl/frog damage nerf.
Sakaku Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 6A (CH) 6A BBL (2402) 214A 5CC 236A sj.9 jc j.2C 2A(w) 5CC 4228 214A 5B 236A (george) 6A BBL (3471) lvl3 j.2C 214A 5CC 236A (george) sj.9 jc j.2C 2A(w) 5CC 3C(1) 214C 3C(1) --> 5882 edit: slow me.
Rhannmah Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 Wasn't j2c supposed to be special cancellable on hit, possibly on block? I'm starting to doubt that, i haven't seen anyone use it yet
[SpA]Relentless Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 The damage difference is way less than I would've imagined. I mean, frog and BBL have less damage, and her character combo rate got reduced, and it's only 400 less. I'm happy now.
Rhannmah Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 Well i'm not really happy that Rachel was given a handful of nerfs and seemingly nothing to compensate. It's not like she was owning left and right in CS2, she was just OK. At least those nerfs apparently aren't catastrophic.
kirbster Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 She's looking fine. What a relief! We can still do lvl2 j.2c combos off random midscreen frog hits, so that's good : 6b *frog zaps* > 5b > j.c > 2d > JC > lv2 j.2c > 5cc did 2507 damage. Maybe it won't work with jabs added in, but so far it's not looking bad. She gets 5k in the corner off 5b and a mortal counter (lol japanese google translation from the Rachel BBS). But most importantly, 6a is still looking good, and CH pumpkin still has a lot of untechable time for us to confirm into a combo.
Sakaku Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 Wasn't j2c supposed to be special cancellable on hit, possibly on block? I'm starting to doubt that, i haven't seen anyone use it yet None of these Rachel players had the opportunity to end an air combo with j.2C though. We shouldn't jump on conclusions after 3 matches, there are lots of things we have yet to see what our Hime-sama can do and what she can't.
TD Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 rachel imo is pretty close to broken in cs2. or at least, she is really strong. lt just wasn't really shown considering people dont play her. (thats why l was a bit miffed when l saw she was only above tager in that one tier list) lnstant corner carry from almost any ground normal using x winds which you get back depending on the combo you do. great neutral with summons (only really loses to other zoners), gdlk rushdown. she can approach fast and keep momentum from anywhere on screen. in the corner, george + pumpkin oki is of course really strong, with a minimum of 3k meterless and 5-6k with meter. 3 pole setup is still ridiculous, 3-4 primers gone and possibly 5k (or leave them with 1 primer danger mode, with a potential to do 7k) from a relatively easy, safe setup. corner usually means gg for any foe in cs2. really, damage nerf means nothing to rachel, especially 3-400 worth. what, rachel players have to work slightly harder with some of the nerfs? pffft.
currentlemon Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 After watching the two videos I've relieved that she's fine. The damage nerf almost means nothing to Rachel and her other nerfs are pretty small. It's just that Rachel players need to work a little harder. One thing I noticed is that the lvl.3 j.2c trick still works, so that's a plus for us. Wonder why they didn't take it out. I mean they did take it out in the loke-tests.
Bloom Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 So glad the level 3 trick is still in and damage nerf isn't comparable to CS1. If nerfs were really bad, I'd drop Rachel out of butthurt because I really don't want to have that wonderful CS1 experience all over again.
Rhannmah Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 YES! http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15844478 Confirmed at 17:25, j2c cancel into pumpkin on hit! Awesome! j2c is special cancellable! Now, if it's cancellable on block, i will never complain again. Though, even if it's not, this opens up many interesting possibilities, such as new setups, more powerful oki after j2c combo ender, possible j2c lvl2 combo variants, etc. etc!
kotokot Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 chair guard point startup is now about 5F, useless.
[SpA]Relentless Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 How is it useless? You can still use it on reaction to slow overheads etc.
kotokot Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) yes, but its harder now. And still the only AA vs Valkenhayns j.C and Hakumen. But now reward is very bad for chairs. Edited October 10, 2011 by kotokot
kirbster Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 In that video vs Carl, Rachel did corner throw into 5cc, frog setup... twice in a row. I wonder if you can't get a lvl2 j.2c combo + frog oki off of a corner throw anymore... or if he was just lazy/didn't know the good combos.
[SpA]Relentless Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Pretty sure he was just lazy. j.2C 5CC into frog, then oki without the followup should be perfectly possible.
Tari Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Hm, lobelia whiff is still in? I'll just use that, then, for high BBL combos. Anyone remember if B/C lobelia got recovery nerfs? I seem to recall reading that somewhere, but I don't remember if I read that or if it was something more like "only A lobelia remains unchanged" or what. Ugh. Might've been bad info, for all I know. Edited October 10, 2011 by Tari
kotokot Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 B/C lobelias have less untechable, 5CC 236B 5CC does not works afaik=(
[SpA]Relentless Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 It still works if the proration isn't too high. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtBDYvetXCc#t=5m23s around 5:35
Soniti Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 B/C lobelias have less untechable, 5CC 236B 5CC does not works afaik=( Still works in the videos I've been seeing. I also saw a lobelia whiff fatal j.2c lvl3 in the corner (gamechariot vid vs Lambda), so it seems that they did put it back in, though I have my doubts about whether the midscreen version is still in.
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