[CSE] Carl vs Hakumen

[sinder]

One of the most frustrating match-ups for Carl

Their Game plan: Kill Carl

Strategy: Be smart, play safe, and act carefully

Match up in a nut shell

Easily one of the most one sided matchups in the BB series. Ever since CT, Haku has been stomping Carl, and continues to do so in Extend. Anybody who says Haku is free to Carl should be slapped, because even new Haku players can do good damage on Carl with just C alone. Howeverm what makes this matchup extremely tricky is Zanshin (dun dun duun) That damn counter move should not work when ADA hits him, otherwise this matchup would be cake. However that is not the case since it can activate whether or not you hit him or she does. the best part is, you can be nowhere during the zanshin animation, but the game will automatically teleport you in Haku's hand (works when spacing is good enough for connecting)

Nevertheless, Zanshin can be beaten with a throw, which is where this match can become even more tricky since you will adapt to a game of "will Haku counter or throw me?" This can destroy the mix up game, which is why fuoco is your better option. Volante can go through Zanshin, but and C attack will create an orb/ As a matter of fact, here is a list of all the moves that create an orb on the screen when it makes contact with Haku's sword

• volante
  
• Brio
  
• 8D
  
• Gear Super
  
• Rhapsody of memories
  

May not look long, but some moves can really make both players turn their head

What to do in CON or in any other state

You have to be careful with mixups/crossups because his counters can negate most of them. you can mash throw all you want, but if a Haku player is really using D to that effect then I don't see why you're here. His damage is insane, and after a D move, you can be put in a bad position when on wakeup. Haku can easily kill ADA with 6C or any other straight long range variation of it, so you need to be cautious of her gauge in this match. If you get him in the corner, congrats, but watch or for Yukikaze, as that move is notorious for all the salt it brings to any opponent a haku faces. I would say that your best bet is to play mind games with him, instead of focusing so much on pressure. However, be careful because Haku can easily make a come back in this fight

How would you rate this match up

I wanna say 3-7. As a matter of fact I rage quit on a Haku today because I was so frustrated with how the match turned out. Anyway, don't rage quit, take the salt and take a jog outside, then come back and pray that you make the right choices in the next haku match. It's probably Carl's most difficult match up, but others may think otherwise

Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H39w9NvjqYA#t=7m40s Nisshi vs Chin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEoRESVuAWQ#t=5m55s Ryuusei vs Mezu Maru

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzXV5xheUVE#t=8m10s Ryuusei vs 0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DUQAdL1j_Q#t=3m5s Kyaku vs 0

DISCUSS

Edited June 26, 2012 by sinder

[Isuyaru]

If Hakumen is repeatedly using j.C to hit Nirvana while you attempt to approach, one option is to time Nirvana's activation so the super armor eats the attack, so then you have the maximum amount of time to threaten him with Brio or another move.

j.2C crossup is pretty hard to use; it's very easy for him to just react with 2D. Consider doing something like an empty airdash and reacting to what Hakumen does, especially if Nirvana is able to cover you or punish him.

If Hakumen likes to do Hotaru on your wakeup when he has a lot of stars, I wouldn't recommend trying to vivace out, because he can option select it with Renka to beat it. (Honestly I don't even know if Hakumens actually use this OS; I just got the idea to test it because Skeletal Minion did lots of Hotarus on my wakeup at Final Round, but I always blocked it so I don't know if he was doing any option selects)

My current impression of this matchup is that Brio is your best friend. It's fast enough that Hakumen can't always counter it on reaction, it punishes him for trying to keep you out with his j.C, and it's just generally a great move.

I was able to use Anima successfully a couple times in some of my games against Skeletal Minion, but it stopped working fairly quickly, so it's not something I recommend doing much at all.

Using a Nirvana move and then grabbing right before it connects is the best way I've found to keep Hakumen from just countering everything she does. If he reacts to this mixup by not countering, you can use this advantage to start going into other mixups/pressure.

To add to the above, if you grab on the same exact frame that a Nirvana move hits, it's still a green throw, but Hakumen can still counter out of it. So in oki situations, a meaty Nirvana move can be countered no matter what (even if you're doing an unblockable!)

Also to add to the above, a hilarious fact about trying to OS barrier and then counter the Nirvana move is that this requires Hakumen to hit all four buttons very quickly. Which means if he has a burst, he could just accidentally use it.

going from 5A/2A to anything other than 2A/5A isn't gapless, meaning Hakumen can just try throwing out 2D if you get careless. Even going from 5A to 2A or vice versa has a gap with IB.

[sinder]

Spacing is also important to consider in this match

I agree with Brio being a very useful tool also, it is definitely better than 8D. However 8D is great if you can predict an air dash form your opponent.

Whenever you are in C-O-N state in this match it gets a little tricky since one mess up can make hakumen get a free combo. I usually jump away after a reset attempt because it can easily be countered.

I also looked at the grab during ADA move method and even though it works sometimes, I would be positioned in a situation that you describe in the subsequent paragraph, where the timing issue can become an advantage to haku.

[Narcastic]

I was doing pressure with ADA meter about 30-35%. and suddenly BOOM! shippu, and there goes Ada...., and I end up running my ass away while Ada recovering.

Died coz of guren CH while I'm airborne *sigh*

[JG]

Learn this!

http://youtu.be/NXL4wlO5K_I

Its the only reliable UB that you can do against Hakumen.

[Narcastic]

Learn this!

http://youtu.be/NXL4wlO5K_I

Its the only reliable UB that you can do against Hakumen.

Ah yes, that'll do the trick for my loop starter >3

Thanks JG.

[sinder]

*UPDATED FIRST POST*