[CSE] Makoto Combo/Discussion Thread

[MarkusArx]

Those first five combos in the beginning of the thread are pretty much optimized, I think (I'm actually the person who wrote those ones out and they're the one's I personally use in basic situations). If you want a full list of the combos though, Bibiquadium's Youtube has two full videos going over pretty much all the possible combos routes and everything. It even has some other interesting Squirrel Tech in there.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Bibiquadium?feature=watch

[Primiera]

Alright, thanks, gonna start these videos right now.

Very basic question: sometimes (applicable starter) > 5CC > 214ACC gets blocked. It only happens about 30% of the time, but it's annoying, and I know I'm not messing with the hit-stun deterioration. I feel I press C as fast as possible. This is specifically on Noel, if that makes any difference.

[Bibiquadium]

Its a bit tricky, but the whole point is not to mash C really hard as soon as 214A hits (unless you are netplaying) and giving it a really slight delay. Should be fine but the error is still possible. I don't get it 100% of the time either.

[Primiera]

Am I to gather that off of a 5B/5C/6B starter, this is the optimal corner combo for damage?

Starter > 5D > 5B > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214AD > (66) 5CC > jc j.B > jc j.D > 66 5CC > PF

If so, would you just turn the last part into 5CC > jc j.CB > jc j.CC > 326CD without meter?

[Bibiquadium]

Here's the deal, it does barely 150 DMG more but give you like 15 or 20 heat less than starter > 5D 2D 66 2C 236A~D 5CC j.B j.D 66 5CC j.B (j.D 66 6B or j.D 2362366D or j.CC DP) And personaly, Oki > Heat > DMG

[Primiera]

Here's the deal, it does barely 150 DMG more but give you like 15 or 20 heat less than starter > 5D 2D 66 2C 236A~D 5CC j.B j.D 66 5CC j.B (j.D 66 6B or j.D 2362366D or j.CC DP) And personaly, Oki > Heat > DMG

Oh, I totally get how oki > damage except for the kill. I didn't realize how absolutely terrible going for PF as an ender is until you threw that number out there; I was wondering why Goro NEVER went for it. In P4A there's at least a 1K+ difference between her oki enders and her Super, so I was going off of that. Is that combo universal to all starters?

[Bibiquadium]

It is but much harder to pull off a 2nd j.D with a 2A or 2B starter. The rest is fine.

[Errol]

Alright, thanks, gonna start these videos right now.

Very basic question: sometimes (applicable starter) > 5CC > 214ACC gets blocked. It only happens about 30% of the time, but it's annoying, and I know I'm not messing with the hit-stun deterioration. I feel I press C as fast as possible. This is specifically on Noel, if that makes any difference.

I was doing cripple matches and this was killing me.

Also I was trying a combo out of the first post. good starter> 5d> 214acb> 5b>6a>2d.. etc. This isn't optimal?

[Bibiquadium]

As far as I recall, good starter 5D 66 5B 6A 2D > 5D 214A~C~B 5B 6A 2D on the long run, I don't rememeber exactly why, could protation or something like that but if it can be dashed don't star gazer it.

[Errol]

Hmm. Cool, Thanks. Still trying to figure out the 214A~D > 5CC pickup. There's tons of good info in this forum though.

[Bibiquadium]

It's easy to pull out once you get the proper timing for your 66 2C and a very important thing, make sure that you release the 214A~D at the beging of level 3, if you wait too long the opponent will be able to tech unless your starter was a CH.

[Errol]

I take it the dash is to help it hit as high as possible? Think ther was no dash in the recipe I saw, although it worked without it but it seemed tight

[Bibiquadium]

Maybe they just used 5D 66 2D 2C instead of 5D 2D 66 2C?

Scratch that, it just shows much I play this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_sfJdktiKs

Edited January 29, 2013 by Bibiquadium

[StarGazer]

Stargazer Trails

I. Basic midscreen BnB:

-Anyhit > get 5CC > 214ACCCCC

-Anyhit > 5B or 5C > 6C > 214ACA or 214ACD

Examples:

1- 2A > 5B > 5CC > 214ACCCCC

2- 2B > 5CC > 214ACCCCC

3- j.CC > 665A > 5B 6A 5B > 5CC > 214ACCCC

Comments: 214ACCCC ender is better than 6C > combo. However, the 6C combos are still important to learn because in a lot of scenarios you'll find yourself far away for your 5B to combo into 5CC; so you must go for 5B > 6C > combo. To make 214AC connect in both combos, train yourself into doing 214A > C by timing rather than 214ACCCCCCCC mashing because the slightest delay could drop it.

II. Basic Midscreen BnB on crouching opponents (crouch confirm)

- Anyhit > Get 5CC > (Optional: add 6BC) > 214ACB > 2A pick up into air combo or 2D level 1 relaunch into air combo if the proration is good

Examples*:

1- 2A > 5B > 5CC > 214ACB > 2A > 5CC/5B6A > j.B > 623CD

2- 6BC > 214ACB > 2A 5CC > 2D level1 > 5B 6A > sjc > j.B > jc > j.D

* Set training dummy to crouching

Comments: You can add a dash between the 214ACB and the 2A to make the 2D level1 switch sides. j.D ender can extend the combo if you are close to corner while 623CD ensures a decent knockdown. 2A pick up into 5CC doesn't work on Noel and Rachel.

III. Basic corner combos BnB

Anyhit > Get 5CC > 5D > Corner Combo

Examples*:

1- 2A > 5B > 5CC > 5D > 662D > 2C 236AD > 665CC > j.B j.D > Ender

2- 5B > 5CC > 5D > 66 > 5B 6A 2D > 2C 214AD > (66)5CC > j.B j.D > Ender

3- 5B > 5CC > 5D > 214ACB > 5CC > j.B j.D > 2D > 2C 236AD > 665CC > TK 623CD

*Requires corner

**Combo 1 & 2 is most the optimal

Comments: There is a lot of variation each have a good reward, pick the one you like. Some variations are optimal but requires specific hitboxes and very good starters. 5B 6A 2D pick up doesn't work on Jin, Valkenhayn and requires you to be very close on Carl. The ender can be anything you like, from Air combos, tech traps, oki, to super ender (use it if its the round finisher only). You can try 2D > 662C instead of 662D > 2C as suggested but 662D is better to learn now as it comes in handy in other combos as you will see.

IV. Anti Air into Corner Combo

-Anyhit > j.B j.D > Corner combo

Examples*:

1- j.AB > jc > j.D > 662D > 2C 236AD > 66A 5D > Ender

2- 5B > 6A > j.B j.D > 665D > 662D > 2C 214AD > 2366A oki

*Opponent must be airborne + close to corner

Comments: Nothing to add :3

Go to practice room. Nail those combos.

Any question? feel free to ask. I'll update this with more stuff later if needed. Check the guide or the wiki for overall gameplay information.

[Bibiquadium]

Just going to mention that 5B 5CC is an instant loss of damage hence not optimal, use 2A 5CC or whatever 5CC except 5B unless its your starter.

[StarGazer]

2A 5CC only happens if you are sure that it will hit. otherwise 2A 2A and other starters are more viable, and the damage lose is negligible anyway. In midscreen standing combos adding more hits doesn't ruin the combo since the combo by itself is short/doesn't have a key moves like 5D and 2D to save the proration for.

[Bibiquadium]

It's more about hitconfirm and such, but midscreen unless you're going for the 214A~C CCCC RC, 2A 5B 6A 5B 5C 6C 214A~C~A and 2A 5B 5CC 214A~C CCCC does about the same about of damage except that 214A~C~A puts you in a better position.

[StarGazer]

Infinite Rush carry is epic and i still prefer its knockdown over 214ACA. Also theoratically speaking i think it gives even better heat. Test it out to confirm.

50% Heat midscreen combos are on a diffrent topic. But to sum it quickly. PF if your back is close to corner and 214ACCCC if the corner is in front of you

[Primiera]

I find "-Corner: B+C > 214AD > 5CC > j.B j.D > 2D > 2C 236A > 66A5D > 665CC > j.B 623CD" to be really unreliable in picking the opponent up near the start. I can get it maybe 2/5 of my attempts. Even with a well-timed level 3 AD, it seems the opponent usually drops too far for 5CC to work, yet sometimes if I get a level 2 AD I can pick them up just fine. Is this combo wonky on some characters, or just really precise?

[Bibiquadium]

Just stick to the videos I uploaded, they work on everyone but Jin and Valk the same way, good damage and much more versatile and easier to abare with

[MarkusArx]

I find "-Corner: B+C > 214AD > 5CC > j.B j.D > 2D > 2C 236A > 66A5D > 665CC > j.B 623CD" to be really unreliable in picking the opponent up near the start. I can get it maybe 2/5 of my attempts. Even with a well-timed level 3 AD, it seems the opponent usually drops too far for 5CC to work, yet sometimes if I get a level 2 AD I can pick them up just fine. Is this combo wonky on some characters, or just really precise?

My small input if you're really going to go through with using the 214AD > 5CC stuff.

214AD > 5CC is REALLY precise. I may have forgotten to mention in the original notes I had down, but yeah. Small tip: anytime you would do a 214AD > 5CC you can actually replace (5CC) with (5A > 6A) for a /MUCH/ easier pick up if you're not confident about doing 5CC. Though yeah, Bibi's Vids are probably the best way to go once you start getting really used to using her.

For best results in doing a 214AD > 665CC, try tapping 66 just before Makoto recovers from her move. She should dash forward a small bit if you also press 5CC. I'm pretty sure that's how I used to do it.

And for 214ACCCCC: Buffer 214 during the 5CC in your basic string and press A~C as soon as the second hit of 5CC happens. You should get the first hit and then you begin to mash. Not too crazily though, because you'll miss it.

Edited January 30, 2013 by MarkusArx

[Errol]

The tip to hit the 214A~D just barely in lvl 3 was a good one. but the idea of having to microdash after that to make it universal (On who is this necessary?) still ain't something I'm looking forward to because without the microdash it already seems rather tight.

[MarkusArx]

The tip to hit the 214A~D just barely in lvl 3 was a good one. but the idea of having to microdash after that to make it universal (On who is this necessary?) still ain't something I'm looking forward to because without the microdash it already seems rather tight.

Hell, it's been a while. I can't remember exactly who, but I think Carl is one of the one's it's needed on. Maybe Arakune too?

But like I said, you can just do 5A > 6A in stead of 665CC. You sacrifice a little damage, but it's nothing major.

[HiagoX]

No, you can hit Arakune without microdashing.

[Bibiquadium]

With time you'll do it without even knowing, same with 236A~D, I used to have many issues with that until I started practicing on Noel where it's much more strict to land and now I can do it on pretty much anyone and as soon as Makoto moves a little bit backward I microdash on reaction, practice!