[CSE] Carl vs. Ragna

[sinder]

Punishes: 2A beats out a majority of any gatlings/ blocked drives from him. Inferno divider can also be easily baited once you study your opponent, and can be easily punished. Remember that it is still a reversal, so respect it as such, unless you see it coming from a mile away.

Inferno divider is going to be abused in scrub play. Block it and use 5b, which will put him in a CH state. Carnage scissors can also be punished on block with both jabs, b, and c.

Help for Online Carls

Inferno divider can be a pain online for new Carls. You should intentionally leave gaps in your resets when you fight ranga players who use it as a crutch, instead of a reversal. I recommend doing 8D >2D. Stand in front of them and see what they do on wake up. A 2D CH is one of the best starters for a combo, and it's a great punish for people who don't know about it's Super Armor

Their game plan: Push you into the corner

Strategy: Stay away from the corner

DISCUSS

Edited April 3, 2012 by sinder

[Akira-Shiro]

So how do u get him from mashing buttons on Adas face =/ 5c will get u hit

[Psykotik]

I find dashing allegrettos very useful in this match-up. Ada whiffs an attack->Rags goes in to hit Ada->Dash-allegretto beats it if they try 5B. I'm not sure if it'll beat a well-spaced 5C though.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Psykotik

[Akira-Shiro]

5B can easily catch any dash allegreto the ragna is waiting to long to attack then because i also tried the same thing it only works @ max distance

Edited April 22, 2012 by Akira-Shiro

[JG]

I don´t recommend doing dash allegreto because Ragna can beat that move and if he block it, we could end losing the match.

This! is going to be one of those matches that the only thing you have to do is Block and bait. Just try to play safe, because one mistake you is = Ragna free mash combo that deal 3K or 4K.

You have to remember three thing, the first is that at certain distance 2B whiff against Inferno divider, that mean that you can do offensive baits.

The other thing that you need to know, is that j.C near the ground is Dp safe. That mean that the UB here is one of our most powerfull tool and! that after a knock down you can use j.C + 3]D[ or other Nirvana move for reset.

Last, but no less importan, IAD j2.C bait DP, so that is other offensive type of bait.

Sometimes just moving Nirvana and jumping with Barrier Block or just doing Barrier Block can be your best bet! If you manage to hit Ragna you WILL win, because of his low life.

[sinder]

there was a video where a ragna was dp happy and the carl player was countering it like a boss

back on topic, if you do get cornered, be prepared to tech throw because his block strings are easy to avoid being mixed up, so a through will usually come after the 2A of the second blockstring

hopefully this makes sense

[Akira-Shiro]

my only issue is actually @ neutral tbh,, Ada eats 5a 5b 5c 5D all day from ragna & i cant stop him =/

[Akira-Shiro]

Ok so me & ragna were a 1 carl backdash apart & he did IF i did 2B had he have stood still 2B would have whiffed he did a Dp & i got hit

[Akira-Shiro]

Ok so after 4 years of this matchup its finally dawn on me how it should be done... so lets start.

Your best tools in this match are 6D allegreto 4D & everyones favorite Brio.

His bests tools 5B 5C 5D & 6a

Now there are 2 ways to play this match & still be able to pull a win out our rabbit hat.

First the defensive approach.

During neutral Ragna is at his best any hit & i mean any hit leads to Oki aka Ragna time. Its best to be completely out of range, and always have Ada no more or less than 1 1/2 forward dash screen space. The purpose of this is to A allow ada to poke his hoe @ss with 6D & still be out of range. If it is blocked use 66 allegreto it is 100% safe @ that height & U also save Ada this will work whether they try to hit or block. This option should not be abused if Ragna IAD's over 6D allegreto it can & will be punished for for 3.5k & Ragna time, periodically switch between 4D. For those who have issues with doing 66 allegreto & carl lands instead u need to input allegreto faster.

Not only does this space stay controlled by u if u decide to do 4D & ragna IAD's over thinking 'its to big of a hop & carl has no dash so this empy space is mine' u can 66 2a/2B whiff 6a because of the whiff any thought of them empty jumping is out & u can punish for about 3.5k & oki. Ada will be right there for a hitconfirm of ur choice. IF U ARE OUT OF 5A RANGE RETURN TO NEUTRAL. Do not make an attempt to tap tap> pause>662a HE WILL MASH U OUT/DP its best to not try & guess the Dp because they can react to it with 5B & we will take 2k & Ragna time.

Now for the more offensive style of play for this Ada should be 1dash space appart, the purpose for this is to give u control over ragna. IfAD allegreto is your new best friend. If u IAD allegreto delay 6D u will get a CH 6D.. if its one thing ragnas love its mashing 6a on IAD. You make it seem like ur about to do a IAD the u allegreto making sur u are our of reach of 6a spacing is key. Once again its best to switch periodically between 6D & 4D to keep him on his toes, 2~6D combos & 1 4D combo & he is dead. CH 6D~4k while each 4D is ~3k.thats with 0 heat btw.

As previously stated NEVER GET PUT IN THE CORNER BURST IF U HAVE TO, DO NOT TAKE UNNECESSARY DMG. If he is IAD'ing at u after HF just vivace B past hit,, now this is where Brio comes into play whenever u tech ALWAYS 22D... or volante (Midscreen only). and if ur near the coner 22D So if he does IAD mash Brio u to will swap possitions & ALL RAGNAS have this urge to try & put u back it,,,, cause with a RC he can put u back in the corner u just got out of. During this time either they will dash to punish vivace or IAD Brio destroys both those plans & allows u to get him in the coner. VS Ragna after coner combos allows use fuaco>backdash it puts u out of reach of his Dp & he cant jump out cause fuacco already active. Also jc oki into 3D dash 3c beats his dp idk why tho.

Any how this is the matchup as i perceive it,,, hope it helps.

[MashThat5A]

Why do you think 5D is such an amazing move? It's pretty ass.

[Akira-Shiro]

Why do you think 5D is such an amazing move? It's pretty ass.

Ragnas 5D is very good due to its range & active frames, if ragna hits Ada & goes into 5D carl has no options to stop it & if forced to allow Ada to take the Dmg not only that 5D starters are 4~5k damage 0heat which is alot of dame damage for carl. As a spacing tool its very powerful, if it hits Ada the hitstop extends its already long active frames making it the equivalent of Nejis Rotation.

[MashThat5A]

I have never seen a good Ragna use 5D in neutral for hitting Ada. Maybe it's okay if Carl is sitting on the opposite end of the screen, but if he's close it's suicide. If you really can't punish 5D...just jump straight at him.

GH? Block + punish

Hell's Fang? whiff punish

Dead Spike? whiff punish

Dash cancel? hit him

Nothing? Recovery is ass

[Akira-Shiro]

I have never seen a good Ragna use 5D in neutral for hitting Ada. Maybe it's okay if Carl is sitting on the opposite end of the screen, but if he's close it's suicide. If you really can't punish 5D...just jump straight at him.

GH? Block + punish

Hell's Fang? whiff punish

Dead Spike? whiff punish

Dash cancel? hit him

Nothing? Recovery is ass

GH can be delayed to the poingt where if u try to hit him ur eating 4k from the second hit its a gimmick all on its own & even if u do block it if u dont IB it u have to do 5a to punish.

HF same issue if u try to attack a well timed second will CH u for big dmg (near corner) an IB is necessary to punish the 1st hit if he stops

Dead spike only way to whiff this & be punished is if they bait it with a 9jump. If not it cannot be punished & we are talking about neutral game so no it cant be punished.

Even more importantly all of these need to be IB without barrier for a legit punish which is difficult because they can all be delayed to some extent. & IIRC 5D is dash cancellable, special cancellable and a AA so barriering is necessary & if u try to punish the dash cancel while barriering u will get hit & he can also do dead spike after 5D(1) or 2. Ragna has to many options after 5D & we have no dash which limits our options making it safer to just return to neutral

[MashThat5A]

I'm confused, are you talking about Carl blocking 5D? Because if so, then yeah, just block and go back to neutral.

[Akira-Shiro]

Yes i am -_-" our 5D does absolutely nothing

[MashThat5A]

I was taking about Ragna using 5D when you're not blocking it to hit Ada, which is retarded.

[Akira-Shiro]

I was taking about Ragna using 5D when you're not blocking it to hit Ada, which is retarded.

Its still safe we are out of range on the ground & if were were to IAD he could easily ID because 5D is special cancellable. Its only retarded if 5D whiffs once it touches something its on nejis rotation level absolute defence.

[CMV Fodder]

Ragna use 5D in neutral

I may not be a particularly good Ragna player, but Ragna 5D is awful. As said up there, terrible recovery, no good options post 5D, slow, no real mixup options after hit, stops any form of pressure. At best, it resets to neutral, at worst Carl can punish. I'm sitting here trying to understand you and I genuinely do not understand how 5D is a good tool for Ragna in the Carl/Ragna matchup. There are so many better ways for him to harass Ada health than 5D if that is what he is trying to do. Maybe I'm just missing something here, I don't know.

[sinder]

Yes i am -_-" our 5D does absolutely nothing

sig worthy :D

[LuminAbyss]

Just to add though, 5D is completely safe on dash cancel, and can be canceled into Deadspike on either the first or second hit for safety. While you can't really punish him for using it in pressure or anything, it's still not a good move, and resets the situation to neutral.

[Akira-Shiro]

I may not be a particularly good Ragna player, but Ragna 5D is awful. As said up there, terrible recovery, no good options post 5D, slow, no real mixup options after hit, stops any form of pressure. At best, it resets to neutral, at worst Carl can punish. I'm sitting here trying to understand you and I genuinely do not understand how 5D is a good tool for Ragna in the Carl/Ragna matchup. There are so many better ways for him to harass Ada health than 5D if that is what he is trying to do. Maybe I'm just missing something here, I don't know.

5D being used to hit Ada,,, not just randomly during Neutral. But as i said before its used for hitting Ada and...........................wait i think i see were u guys arnt understanding, if u hit Ada wit lets say any poke @ neutral MASH 5D, 5a 5D!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5B 5D!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5c 5D!!!!!!!!!!!! 2B 5D!!!!!!!!!!!!! & so on. Not just randomly during Neutral, i mean u can but its not advised

[Psykotik]

Akira, if anything, you're the one who's misunderstanding them. Of course they know that you'd use 5D in a string against Ada and not just throw one out randomly. With that out of the way, I'm going to have to take the Rags players' side on this and say that 5D is far from a good option. Yes, it's hard to stop that move and yes, it hurts Ada but Rags can't do much after the 5D. Dash cancel? Best case scenario, he'll be safe but he can't really continue pressure as long as Carl is close enough to intervene. Dead spike? Same as the dash cancel. Hell's fang? He's asking you to hurt him. Wait out the recovery of 5D? That's more than enough time for Carl to get in.

[Akira-Shiro]

lol uhh ok,,, unfortunately u can cancel 5D just like u said & if u are out of range for the 5D to hit u... u cant stop him. 5D iirc icovers about 2 forward dashes so if he hits into Dead spike is u IAD after the 5D ull probably get hit. An if the carl is close enough to hit ragna (Meaning if my statement is wrong about the distance) the just ID =/ the moment u see carl IAD,,, its not as if he could block it. Also,,,, 5D= GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! O_O

Edit:

Ok so i just tested it & yea u gotta be hella far to avoid the 5D & if u want to 'punish' u have to IAD & unfortunately this only beats dead spike . ID, GH, & HF are gonna beat ur IAD. So @ the same time if u super jump forward a barrier it stops all Ragnas options except dead spike. So in truth all Rags has to do is wait for u to make a move and punish u. Cause unfortunately if u try to delay the IAD even by the slightest second he can block, but if u dont dash & try to bait his options he can just recover

Edited May 31, 2012 by Akira-Shiro

[Psykotik]

You don't have to be that far to punish, just stay behind about one dash length and you're good. If the Ragna is really going to resort to ID/GH/HF to try to beat out that punish, just bait by moving in. IAD isn't the only way to get in btw, Carl's jet jump also works for this purpose. My point is even if you don't get an outright punish, if you can even make him block, which Ada behind you no less, then that Ragna just lost any momentum he may have had and it's in your favour from then on. Ragna might be able to get away from eating 6k but he's lost all offensive/neutral momentum he's had at that point. Just for that reason, 5D is far from an optimal option for hitting Ada.

[Akira-Shiro]

if u say so