[Accent Core] Sol Badguy General Discussion

[reaVer]

The discussion at hand is your issue, not Darkhonor's damage miscalculations and reading errors. Like I said, you need to remember that Sol is all about oneshot attacks, unlike OS who can just go with the flow and do whatever he feels like(and be fucking fast with it too).

[Hatred Edge]

Clarify "one-shot attacks". Does it mean: land a hit, go for big combo? i.e. 2K,2HS Grand Viper and Wild Throw? And you say OS goes with the flow, I thought Sol would be the one for that since he doesn't have to manage anything...

[reaVer]

Yes, oneshot attacks mean land a hit go for damage and more precisely: be sure it lands, or re-setup your attempt. OS can go more with the flow because he's not at a loss. His resource management doesn't play a big role here. At worst his attempts leave him on about neutral in which he still has the advantage because he has faster normals, so he can continue. Sol on the other hand is mostly in disadvantage and has to cancel to something that allows him to continue, like GF FRC.

[unsmart]

The funny thing about Sol is it's very easy to go autopilot with him. Poke > GF FRC > run in 1-2 tick throw/delay CH > jump blah blah random viper. Yet he is the character that absolutely CANNOT afford this. He doesn't have a gimmick beyond massive abare, so when you play Sol, more than any other character, you don't really play AS him so much as you play AGAINST your opponent (if that makes any sense). Sure, every match is against your opponent, but I want to distinguish, let's say, how a good Eddie plans a fight versus how a good Sol must fight. Arc designed Sol straightforward, but complexity doesn't necessarily mean strength. He's got the tools he needs, you just have to get in your opponent's head. tl;dr do lots of psychic uppercuts or play Eddie because his autopilot is autowin

[低姿勢]

Not sure whats the point of compareing anyones damage to sol. Sol is one of the most damageing characters in this game period. As a matter of fact id say one of the reasons order sol isnt top tier is beacuse he doesnt do quite enough damage. Dont get me wrong obviously he has random shit which does a lot of damage like ex move yadda yadda, but in general compared to other characters that are the best in the game or best damage wise... Order sol I dunno... I think thats why order sol kinda fell out of top tier cuz he wasnt doing enough for what he was doing. Compared to what other characters that he was in the top tier with shruuuuUuguuug. Anyway yea order sol does damge, but sol damage? Come on... Sol can kill you with one combo. Not even close to each other. Whatever the case im not of the opinon that order sol is better then regualr sol in the first place shrug.

[Hatred Edge]

It's never been discussed, but who in the GG cast is Sol's worst matchup?

[Teyah]

The old tier list that's going around lists A.B.A as Sol's worst matchup, probably due to her domination at Sol's optimal range. Historically, Dizzy and Bridget have always been bad matchups for Sol. May got pretty ridiculous in AC and is probably up there is well.

[Spirit Juice]

Not sure whats the point of compareing anyones damage to sol. Sol is one of the most damageing characters in this game period. As a matter of fact id say one of the reasons order sol isnt top tier is beacuse he doesnt do quite enough damage. Dont get me wrong obviously he has random shit which does a lot of damage like ex move yadda yadda, but in general compared to other characters that are the best in the game or best damage wise... Order sol I dunno... I think thats why order sol kinda fell out of top tier cuz he wasnt doing enough for what he was doing. Compared to what other characters that he was in the top tier with shruuuuUuguuug.

Anyway yea order sol does damge, but sol damage? Come on... Sol can kill you with one combo. Not even close to each other.

Whatever the case im not of the opinon that order sol is better then regualr sol in the first place shrug.

In most tier lists by the Japanese, Order Sol is usually ranked one tier above Sol or at least equal tier at worst. Early versions of the tier list had Sol ranked very high, but that's to be expected when his combos are easy to do and produce good damage for very little effort. The game has evolved since then, and Sol's rank in the tier lists has generally dropped due to other characters' potential growing or being realized.

Personally I would have to say OS is more solid of a character than Sol is. While OS doesn't have the damage that Sol has, he's faster, has better normals, has a better mix up game, and has better match ups compared to Sol.

I've never heard or seen Sol killing anyone in one practical combo (practical being the key word). I can see potentially 100% dizzy combos on certain characters, but without a dizzy, a lot of meter, and/or guard meter up, Sol cannot do practical 100% combos. Currently the only character that can kill anyone or almost anyone in the cast with one combo would be Eddie.

It's never been discussed, but who in the GG cast is Sol's worst matchup?

The old tier list that's going around lists A.B.A as Sol's worst matchup, probably due to her domination at Sol's optimal range. Historically, Dizzy and Bridget have always been bad matchups for Sol. May got pretty ridiculous in AC and is probably up there is well.

Sol's worst match up would probably be either ABA or Eddie (probably 4-6 for Sol). Everyone else that gives him trouble would probably be a 4.5 against him at worst.

[reaVer]

In most tier lists by the Japanese, Order Sol is usually ranked one tier above Sol or at least equal tier at worst. Early versions of the tier list had Sol ranked very high, but that's to be expected when his combos are easy to do and produce good damage for very little effort. The game has evolved since then, and Sol's rank in the tier lists has generally dropped due to other characters' potential growing or being realized.

Personally I would have to say OS is more solid of a character than Sol is. While OS doesn't have the damage that Sol has, he's faster, has better normals, has a better mix up game, and has better match ups compared to Sol.

I've never heard or seen Sol killing anyone in one practical combo (practical being the key word). I can see potentially 100% dizzy combos on certain characters, but without a dizzy, a lot of meter, and/or guard meter up, Sol cannot do practical 100% combos. Currently the only character that can kill anyone or almost anyone in the cast with one combo would be Eddie.

Note he never mentioned Sol being better then Order-Sol, Sol just does more damage. And actually, I did get 100%ed by a Sol player without getting dizzied. It's after guard being build, but still, it's not impossible.

[Spirit Juice]

Whatever the case im not of the opinon that order sol is better then regualr sol in the first place shrug.

Note he never mentioned Sol being better then Order-Sol, Sol just does more damage. And actually, I did get 100%ed by a Sol player without getting dizzied. It's after guard being build, but still, it's not impossible.

Unless I'm reading it wrong I'm pretty sure he's saying he thinks Sol is better than Order Sol.

I also clarrified in my post regarding guard meter (Sol cannot normally do 100% combos without guard meter). I'd imagine you were playing a low defense character as well in order for that to happen, considering the amount of guard damage plus forced proration on CLSW. In other words, it's more likely for a character like Eddie to land a 100% combo than it would be for Sol.

[reaVer]

Not better, that leaves worse and equal, though he never implied worse. I was playing OS vs that Sol and were put on defence by him, I didn't notice by guardbar growing and lost a round because of it. On the other hand, I've yet to receive a 100% combo from Eddie. And about proration: Sidewinder j236H 35 [+ 25 * (# of Clean Hits) if clean hit] 1.50/2.40 20 12 5 HA R 9 4 landing 13 - Wall bounces on hit (Clean hit untechable for 56F). Sol is in CH state while falling. Dizzy modifier x0.5. Forced prorate 70%. Sol is crouching during landing recovery. So the unprorated damage of that sidewinder is 35+25=60 on the first hit, then 35+50=85, then 35+75=110 and if you manage to get a 4th you'll deal 35+100=135 if we add them up: 60+85+110+135=390, so if guard damage and proration wasn't there, an average SW combo could kill. With proration you have 60+0.7(85 + 0.7(110 + 0.7(135)) = 219.705.

[Spirit Juice]

Not better, that leaves worse and equal, though he never implied worse. I was playing OS vs that Sol and were put on defence by him, I didn't notice by guardbar growing and lost a round because of it. On the other hand, I've yet to receive a 100% combo from Eddie.

And about proration:

Sidewinder j236H 35 [+ 25 * (# of Clean Hits) if clean hit] 1.50/2.40 20 12 5 HA R 9 4 landing 13 -

Wall bounces on hit (Clean hit untechable for 56F). Sol is in CH state while falling. Dizzy modifier x0.5. Forced prorate 70%. Sol is crouching during landing recovery.

So the unprorated damage of that sidewinder is 35+25=60 on the first hit, then 35+50=85, then 35+75=110 and if you manage to get a 4th you'll deal 35+100=135 if we add them up: 60+85+110+135=390, so if guard damage and proration wasn't there, an average SW combo could kill. With proration you have 60+0.7(85 + 0.7(110 + 0.7(135)) = 219.705.

Don't forget that you're likely to be getting hit by other normals that do less damage in between CLSWs, so the damage will still be lower than those 4 CLSWs. If it wasn't late I'd do more testing. Do you remember what combo you were hit with that did a full 420 points of damage?

As for Eddie 100%, you factor his unblockables in as one combo. Triple unblockables do 90% easily to most of the cast, and 100% to characters with lower defense. He also has 100% dizzy combos from some set ups, which, at that point, he'll be able to finish you off with one more combo or even an instant kill in some situations. A 90-100% combo is much more likely to happen for Eddie than it would Sol.

[Darkhonor90]

Sol doing 60% tensionless combos is where it is at

[Hatred Edge]

The damage doesn't make sense to me. The only combo I get over 1/2 life with is a Bandit Bringer or Tyrant Rave or Grand Viper or Gunflame. I get between 3-4 sidewinders.

[722]

Don't forget that you're likely to be getting hit by other normals that do less damage in between CLSWs, so the damage will still be lower than those 4 CLSWs. If it wasn't late I'd do more testing. Do you remember what combo you were hit with that did a full 420 points of damage?

If I recall, the guard gauge doesn't have to be too high (maybe not even blinking) for this to kill:

5K 5S 6P CLGV, Fafnir (whiff) Charge Drive, jump back j.S CLSW, jump forward j.S CLSW, then... something.

Those Charge Drive combos really hurt with the guard gauge up.

[低姿勢]

few random thoughts since I was to lazy/forgot whatever last time.... Oh though to say, although of course in general you could say no character in the game is played to there fullest potential, I think sol especialy even japanese(and of course dont get me wrong im a nut hugger towards the japanese, and you could say again no charater is played to there fullest yet)dont play sol to his fullest potential yet. Im not sure why its so hard to see sol killing you in one combo. But then again you guys it seems cant even get those 2 hit grand viper set ups ive posted before, so how you could get the combo no way I guess. And that shit works anywhere. And even when you fuck up, its at least half life. So its basicly what you would have gotten almost if you had done a full side winder combo. shruguuUGUguuUGUSfgiashfgsf Ummmm yea ah points I forgot.... -Ah who the fuck is doing power dunk as a HIGH LOW mix up in the first place. WTF... obviously the fact that its a overhead is not its main ummm... attribute to say... Though you could be ghetto and there are certain ways to use it as a high and low through the right umm ghetto kinda set ups. Plus dont forget that he still even in AC has the unblockable power dunk from XX on certain characters when you do it. Not something you can abuse, but I deffintly did it in matchs randomly when the situation allows it. shrug... -I think aba was brought up..... Diff game I guess.. But browseing japanese boards yadda yadda in slash I forget if it was DIO or some top aba player acctualy in his list said that aba vs sol was 8-2 in abas favor. It was basicly unwinnable he posted. Again I forget which guy said it exactly. It was a awhile ago though. Dunno what it is for AC havnt botherd to browse at all lately.. anyway umm actualy hands tired.. so im done. EDIT: oops forgot... although ive never gotten 4 side winders in a row with nothign in between to say. Its deffintly possible to get 2 regular side widners in a row with no moves in between to something. shruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuug

[reaVer]

Isa managed to get 4 somewhere without greying the combo.

[低姿勢]

I ment side winders as in nothing but jump side winder by it self.. I dont know anything in real matchs where I can combo then get above just 2 regular jump side winders nothing else to real combo again. I dont know any combo where you can get 3 or more just regular jump yadda yada... oops acctualy wait never mind.. I forgot about those random lightest character combos.. If thats what you ment.. never mind then. Im dum... I was thinking more vs like regular characters to say.

[reaVer]

with regular characters you indeed have to add normal hits yeah, but those aren't the main source of damage in a SW combo.

[Brent-quest]

I've seen 5 in a row, no normals in between on Jam. 0.o I'll see if I can find the vid.

EDIT: Here it is http://youtube.com/watch?v=AMhlVD0-rzE

Also yesterday I did 5 CLSW in a combo and still got knockdown with BR, no black beat. /shrug

[低姿勢]

its ok I belive you. again I was thinking regular characters. I cant think of anything mor ethen 2 regulars in a row on them. My bad.

[Brent-quest]

yeah I don't think I've ever done more than 2 in a row just straight CLSW, still weird to see lots put together.

[unsmart]

This'll get you 4 in a row if you start from the stage edge on a light like Millia: WT > iad j.S-CLSW, [land, jf.CLSW]x3 > stuff (ju.S-CLSW, dash jf.S JC dj.S-CLSW does 252 on Millia) Of course it's off a WT but on some characters after a wall bounce, iad j.S-CLSW could lead to that. edit: read the thing about the lights, yeah I dunno about more than two on normies

[Exigent]

I feel like a jackass not knowing what CLSW means since I play sol, too. I think I might know but, I don't want to act like I do and have it be something completely and end up looking like a scrub ¬_¬...

[Cadenza]

cleanhit sidewinder