AJSmith325 Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Nice. I was actually looking for a way to get ground enders off of 6C>214B, usually if I try to use 214B again and get the SMP, they're usually to high and tech at area where they can get out/away.
zaeris Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 guess I did try looking to see if someone posted this already. 2C corner" AA 2CC>J.214D>6C>CT>5C>2CC>236C>(5A).5C>2C>236B>214B>22B [DG4238/HG 25 REQUIRE 1 STOCK, 25HEAT]
Kiba Posted January 14, 2014 Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Nice man. Thanks for that. If you don't want to use CT, you go into the standard 6C > j.D > j.C combo, or 6C > 623C > delay j.214A > 5C > 2C > ender. They both deal 3.5k so I suggest going for the former since it's easier. Edited January 14, 2014 by Kiba
zaeris Posted January 14, 2014 Posted January 14, 2014 Nice man. Thanks for that. If you want to use CT, you go into the standard 6C > j.D > j.C combo, or 6C > 623C > delay j.214A > 5C > 2C > ender. They both deal 3.5k so I suggest going for the former since it's easier. Thanks for replying Kiba, I always found 236C> delay j.214A to be rather difficult to time correctly in matches lol, I'm just curious but did anyone notice how 236A(w) > 214D seems to be funky with its tracking ability as it would carry its HB invul frames. Other than that I notice that both air and forward-ground corner throw can follow the same combo path, so something like corner air throw > land CT> 6CC> TK j.236D>j.214A>236C>214B>22B, I think it is worth the 2 stock and heat for damage and resource, otherwise throw cancel into mugen is another good choice.
Kiba Posted January 14, 2014 Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) I'm just curious but did anyone notice how 236A(w) > 214D seems to be funky with its tracking ability as it would carry its HB invul frames. Yeah I have noticed that actually, though I don't remember when exactly the invul frames kick in. Errol pointed this out a while ago. Other than that I notice that both air and forward-ground corner throw can follow the same combo path, so something like corner air throw > land CT> 6CC> TK j.236D>j.214A>236C>214B>22B, I think it is worth the 2 stock and heat for damage and resource, otherwise throw cancel into mugen is another good choice. Yeah, the combo is listed in the thread. Nets you 4411 Damage and 18 heat. Using another charge for an extra 400 damage isn't bad at all although I may not recommend using it if 2 charge is all you have. It's also important to note that there is a minor difference in damage depending on the number of hits from tk.236D > j.214D. 4.3k - 4.4k to be exact. Edited January 16, 2014 by Kiba
TheGreatReptar Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 I noticed Konan did 5C>6C>command grab once in one of his matches. I figured it was a goofed j.214C. Turns out CH 5C>6C>j.214C>623C>delayed j.214A>5C>2CC>236C>5A>5C>2C>BBB works as a better corner punish
Kiba Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 What's the damage? With and without the 5A? Sorry I know it seems I'm asking for a lot but if I could play right now I'd do it myself.
TheGreatReptar Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) 3933, 28 heat gained. Trying to do it without the 5A now. I'll edit this post if I get it. 3997 damage with the 5A omitted, still 28 heat gain Same combo off of 5B does 3683, 26 heat without 5A, 3624 25 heat with 5A Edited January 16, 2014 by TheGreatReptar
Errol Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 well i am disappointed that someone finally found my combo route.
Kiba Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) 3933, 28 heat gained. Trying to do it without the 5A now. I'll edit this post if I get it. 3997 damage with the 5A omitted, still 28 heat gain Same combo off of 5B does 3683, 26 heat without 5A, 3624 25 heat with 5A Man when I see this kind of damage I'm just like, give me my 4K! Thanks anyway TGR, it's a neat combo. Note you can also use tk.214C and it helps if you buffer the tk input during the 6C. You can also go for that route off a 6A FC for 3282 damage, or omit the j.214C for 3269. Errol someone was bound to find out eventually anyway lol. If anyone wants a slightly easier combo, you can do 5C CH > 6C > 623C > Delay j.214A > 5C > 2CC > 236C > (5A) > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B for 3897/3973 damage and 28 heat gain, and this combo is easier. Edited January 16, 2014 by Kiba
zaeris Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) I guess that solve my issue with 6C like Starter, since you can apply the same concept to 5b CH > 6C also, for corner. It feels like CS2 tsubaki almost with a tensionless and meterless corner combo that does large. 5B CH > 6C > TKj,214c > 623C > Delay j.214A > 5C > 2CC > 236C > (5A) > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B DMG 3624/3683 HG 25/26 Edited January 16, 2014 by zaeris
Kiba Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) FC 6A + 2 Charge FC 6A > 5CC > 6C > [4]6D > 236D > 6A > 5C > 623C > j.214A(whiff) > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [28 HG 3997 DMG] Using air ender gets you 4K. More for CT guard break Corner [2 Charge + 25%] CT GB > 6C > [4]6D > 236D > 5CC > 623C > j.214A/B (whiff) > 5A > 2C > 214B > 22B [3521 DM] [12% HG] [2 Charge + 25%] CT GB > 6CC > [4]6D > 236D > Dash 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [3851 DM] [15% HG] Remember with the 2nd combo the [4]6D > 236D will put you in the corner so you need to dash forward to keep them in the corner, as you would with the typical corner OD combos. Doesn't seem worth it to use only 1 charge from a CT break. None or 2 tbh. Edited January 21, 2014 by Kiba
Kiba Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Double post! Just some tid bits that I think I'll include in the strategy guide soon. With combos involving the > 6CC > j.CC(Delay) > 5A/5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B, when you're jumping, assess the height you're height after j.CC. If you're closer to the ground, you can use 5C, but if you're higher, 5C will whiff so you have to use 5A. 5A is a little damaging to the combo but it's much easier to use. I'm a little obsessed with getting optimal combos so I try to use 5C at times, but this isn't to say that you should do the same if you're not comfortable with it. Focus on consistency and then you can build it from there if you want. ---- Also, I've gotten mixed damage values from 5BB > 5CC starters in the corner. I'll use this example: 5BB > 5CC > 22D > 6C > CT > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B This above combo gets you 3.6k. I may be wrong here because I did this a while back but 5BB > 22D > Combo and 5BB > 5C > combo result in around the same damage. Using 5B > 22D > Combo, 5B > 5C > Combo, and 5B > 5CC > combo can net you 4k. The hitconfirm, isn't too demanding here. For example if you use 5B > 5C on a player's wakeup and they block it, you can charge cancel or go into 6B. Granted you no longer have your high low mixup but you still have some decent options. Of course if you hit with 5B > 5C then you can just hitconfirm into 22D and get the damage. I'm not saying use 5B > 5C here on someone's wakeup btw, I'm just pointing out that 5BB is a little damagign. Also, you would have noticed that I omitted the 5A after the 236C. Again this isn't to say you shouldn't use it. The damage difference here is really insignificant (the damage difference being less than 100) so it doesn't matter. If you want to use 5C you need to make sure you hit the opponent high enough. It would be helpful if you use CT > 5C > 2CC > 236C immediately without any delays, but this can be tricky on certain characters like Bang so I recommend going for 5A since you have to delay the 2CC against him. Using CT > 5C© is tricky on some characters like Izayoi and Bullet so stick to 2B because it's easier. Also because 2B results in less damage than using 5C©, I'm thinking it may be more beneficial for you to save the heat against these characters and just use > 22D > 6C > j.D > j.C, unless it's Amane, or if you're having trouble with the combo. If anything else comes to mind I'll post. ---- Edit: Also rather than doing 5CC > 22D >6C > CT > Combo, you can do 5CC > 623C > j.214D > 6C > CT > Combo, for a little more heat gain and damage. You can't do this with 5BB > 5CC however. Edited January 23, 2014 by Kiba
zaeris Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Edit: Also rather than doing 5CC > 22D >6C > CT > Combo, you can do 5CC > 623C > j.214D > 6C > CT > Combo, for a little more heat gain and damage. You can't do this with 5BB > 5CC however. From my understanding the following gatling allows for X> 623C > j214D > 6C >CT pattern Where X can = 5CC, 5BB, J.CC, j.C>5CC, 6BB, 5B5CC, 2CC (ground hit), 3CC (FC), 2BB> 5C, anything else i'm forgetting. However its always been an issue with spacing from corner to get it to connect, since most often doing frames traps is the most practical way to land the big starters. EDIT: wondering if its optimal to add this 1 stock + 25% 6CC> 623C> J214D> land CT> 5C> 2CC> 236C> 5C> 2C> 236B> 214B> 22B DMG 4688, Needs No CH compare to what we already know CH 6C > CT > 5CC > 623C > Delay j.214A(w) > 5C > 2CC > 236C > (5A) > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [4854 (4920) DM] requires 25% 6C> TK214C> 623C> delay J214A> 5C> 2CC> 236C> 5C> 2C> 236B> 214B> 22B DMG 3849 wondering whats the better option, does someone have a more optimal 6C starter using 1 stock and 25%? EDIT 2 guess this does slightly more 6C> 623C> J214D> land 6BB> CT> 5C> 2CC> 236C> 5A> 5C> 2C> 236B> 214B> 22B DMG 4772, guess it can be use to catch jump start up frames. ( havent managed to connect using 5C only, maybe someone will have better luck) Edited January 21, 2014 by zaeris
Kiba Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Yeah exactly, you're correct. Thanks for getting that information. Edited January 21, 2014 by Kiba
Kiba Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Each time I was using the following combo on characters, sometimes it wouldn't work, and it'll give me a massive headache. So I decided to compile a list to make things easier: Air throw > 6C > j.D > j.D > j.C > 5C is character specific Easy on (Cancel j.D > j.C immediately) : Litchi, Terumi, Relius, Platinum, Mu-12, Hazama, Azrael, Nu-12, Makoto, Ragna, Valkenhayn, Hakumen, Noel, Taokaka, Kokonoe, Carl. Hard on (Slightly delay the j.C) : Tsubaki, Jin, Rachel, Arakune, Bang, Tager. With these characters stick to 6CC to save yourself the trouble. Doesn't work on: Amane, Bullet, Kagura, Izayoi. Adding this information to combo thread. combos into j.214D > 6C > j.D > j.C are also character specific. It will not work against the above characters that I've listed under the 'hard' or 'doesn't work on' category. ---- XXX > 22D > 6C > CT > 5C > 2CC > 236C is also character specific (where xxx can be 5BB > 5CC / 5CC /6A > 5CC / j.CC > 5C / 6BB etc) Against Mu, Kagura, Carl and Bang, you have to slightly delay the 2CC, otherwise the 236C will whiff. With the rest of the cast you can just use it immediately. Damn specifics...we have quite a bit of specifics going on here so it might be better to be really basic with things... ---- Back throw > 214B doesn't work against Valkenhayn and Izayoi. Also against a good portion of the cast the followup 5C will whiff if you don't micro dash. If you do land 5C without a micro dash, 2CC will whiff against the majority. Stick to back throw > 236C, or 5CC > 236B. Edited January 26, 2014 by Kiba
Kiba Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) EDIT: wondering if its optimal to add this 1 stock + 25% 6CC> 623C> J214D> land CT> 5C> 2CC> 236C> 5C> 2C> 236B> 214B> 22B DMG 4688, Needs No CH compare to what we already know CH 6C > CT > 5CC > 623C > Delay j.214A(w) > 5C > 2CC > 236C > (5A) > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [4854 (4920) DM] requires 25% 6C> TK214C> 623C> delay J214A> 5C> 2CC> 236C> 5C> 2C> 236B> 214B> 22B DMG 3849 wondering whats the better option, does someone have a more optimal 6C starter using 1 stock and 25%? EDIT 2 guess this does slightly more 6C> 623C> J214D> land 6BB> CT> 5C> 2CC> 236C> 5A> 5C> 2C> 236B> 214B> 22B DMG 4772, guess it can be use to catch jump start up frames. ( havent managed to connect using 5C only, maybe someone will have better luck) Sorry I didn't notice the edit. I haven't found a more optimal 6C combo using 1 charge and 25%, but I will use your 2nd combo anyway because not everyone can do (or likes) the 623C > Delay j.214A route (Not to mention it's a little character specific) so it'll help. If I find anything useful I'll let you know. I'm gonna go through some combos tonight since we're lacking a few charge combos in places (such as 6A FC combos with 1 charge). Edit: Yeah I can get the 5C to work in that combo you specified. 4854 damage with 23 heat gain. Thanks, and sorry about the consecutive posts guys. New combos: CH 6B > 5A > 22D > 6C > j.D > j.C > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 5A > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [2.7k] CH 6B > 5A > 22D > 6C > CT > 5C > 2CC > 236C > (5A) > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [3.3k] Edited January 26, 2014 by Kiba
Kiba Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) [2 charge + 50%] Command grab > RC > j.236D > j.214D > 6C > j.D > j.C > 5A > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [3251 Damage, 10 HG] The damage and heat gain can vary depending on the number of hits from j.236D > j.214D. Against some characters the j.236D > j.214D may send the opponent spiraling backwards so use j.7 > j.236D > j.214D to be on the safe side. 5A is easier to use than 5C here. If you use 5C the 236B may whiff, but you can go into an air combo if you get the correct height, otherwise the 2C will whiff. On a side note Command grab > RC > CT > 6C > [4]6D > 236D does work on Kokonoe and Noel. You just need to cancel 6C into [4]6D faster. Edited February 3, 2014 by Kiba
Kiba Posted February 7, 2014 Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Another discovery. If you use one hit into corner 22D (or just use 22D) you can go into the 6C > 623C > delay j.214A route for 300 more damage than the usual route. So 5B > 22D > 6C > j.D > j.C > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 5A > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B deals 3.4k 5B > 22D > 6C > 623C > Delay j.214A > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B deals 3.7k I used 5B here because due to hit confirm, that and 6B will most likely be the ones you use a followup 22D. 2B > 22D is really impractical. You can't do this from 2+ hits into 22D otherwise you'll have to do 6C > 623C > Delay j.214A > 5C > 2C > 236C > 236B > 214B which will result in about the same damage as the regular/easier combo (probably a 30 damage difference). Anyway if you're a player who can use the 623C > delay j.214A, you now have an optimised combo. Remember it's character specific too! I won't include this in the combo thread, but I'll have it listed in the strategy guide because the hit confirm is much more demanding. Also: Back throw > 214B > 22D > 6CC > j.CC > j.214B [3100 DM, 22 HG] - This combo doesn't work on everyone I'm afraid. Damn I thought I tackled that followup 214B whiffs on some characters. Guess not. Will get to that later. Edit: done. It doesn't work against Izayoi & Valkenhayn. I've included the information in the first post. Double edit: Nah, just do Back throw > 236C > 214B > 22D > 6CC > j.CC > j.214B [3125 DM, 22 HG] Edited February 7, 2014 by Kiba
Kiba Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) It's super hard. Even japanese top players won't try that combo anymore. They'd rather go for the route i said or DP route, they are both much easier and safer than this one. 300 extra damage for the high risk of losing an oki / charge time / punish is not worth it at all imo. Allow me to put it another way then. Use whatever works for you. As someone who tends to crave for more optimal combos, I'd consider it. If there was any JP player making the most out of it, it was Kazu@Ginga. Edited February 9, 2014 by Kiba
zaeris Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) It's super hard. Even japanese top players won't try that combo anymore. They'd rather go for the route i said or DP route, they are both much easier and safer than this one. 300 extra damage for the high risk of losing an oki / charge time / punish is not worth it at . In my honest opinion her combo just take time getting use to, the hard one anyway. I believe the time I have spent in training mod is 2-3 hr each day for a week to getting it consistent and then another 1 week of actually in game vs mode against friends, for consistently in combat. I think in the end you can weight up the short term gain vs the full term. Overall I do enjoy playing a more flashy tsubaki but it does give me an overall advantage sub as heat gain, damage and better corner carry, just don't mind losing a few games or so just be more consistent. it does depend on your aim, well I do play competitively at my local scene and tourney run for a few month Anyway my only problem is tsubaki corner 623c delay j214a combo which is the most inconsistent since I can get it training mode but in matches it always fail me lol Edited February 10, 2014 by zaeris
Zouf Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 @Kiba : well, that works for everything :s I wouldn't recommend this combo to anyone. I don't really like semi-random combos like this one. Delaying stuff when your margin error is so small is not really appealing, especially when you trade a few extra damage for charge time and oki What i like in Konan gameplay is that he always go for the rekka ender, in every situation (even after reversal DP :d ).
Kiba Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 With the corner combos involving the 5A > 5C > 2C > 236B stuff, you can use 2A instead of 5A, which seems more reliable. 5A > 5C > 2C > 236B can whiff against Jin but seems a lot more consistent with 2A. Same damage too.
Kiba Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Been practicing my execution with 623C > j.214A whiff > Dash 5C > 2C combos, and I'm getting the timing down a little more consistently, which is cool. The corner carry is good too. There's a visual cue you need to look out for after the j.214A which makes it a whole load easier to followup with 5C. Too late, 5C will whiff, too early, 2C will whiff. Also, after the 22B whiff I use micro dash 5C because if you don't micro dash, 2CC will whiff against some characters. Anyway: 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > Dash 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214B [2745 DM] [19% HG] 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > Dash 5C > 2C > 214B > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214A [2806 DM] [20% HG] 2BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > Dash 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214B [2341 DM] [16% HG] 2BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > Dash 5C > 2C > 214B > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214A [2394 DM] [17% HG] 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > Dash 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214B [3158 DM] [22% HG] 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > Dash 5C > 2C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214A [3309 DM] [23% HG] 6BB > 623C > j.214A(w) > Dash 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214B [2900 DM] [20% HG] 6BB > 623C > j.214A(w) > Dash 5C > 2C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > IAD j.CC > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214A [3050 DM] [21% HG] j.CC > 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > Dash 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B(w) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.214B [2834 DM] [20% HG] With 5CC and 6BB > 623C, you may find it easier if you followup with j.236A(w) > 5C > 2C rather than j.214A(w) > Dash 5C. Just remember you have to cancel into j.236A(w) quite early, but not too early that the wing of the attack hits the opponent. Edited February 17, 2014 by Kiba
Kiba Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Minor note: I remember speaking to BatousaiJ a while back about the corner > 22D > 6C > CT combos, especially on characters where the 5C will whiff. I found something earlier which may help but forgot to mention it. After CT press 5C immediately then hold 2, then press CC. If the 5C whiffs, 5C© > 2CC will come out. Remember 5C > 2C doesn't come out on whiff so I guess it acts like a nice little OS? If 5C hits, 5C > 2CC will come out. This technique makes following up on characters a whole load easier. Against characters where the 5C will whiff, if you don't press 5C fast enough, 5CC will also whiff. -Included information in combo compilation- Edited March 1, 2014 by Kiba
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