[CP] Carl Clover Gameplay Discussion (Changelog in OP)

[Pen_Ninja]

Hey, I've always been a Relius main xP vita matches say I've used Carl ~350 and Relius ~500 times. What's wrong with maining the Clover family? xD.

One thing I've been wondering, is j.B>j.2C>j.B not used much anymore because of thr combo timer?

I still use j.B > j.2C > j.B string in my air combos when appropriate. It can be a bit annoying when my combo drops between the j.B and j.C due to the timer though...

At least I'm fairly sure it's due to the timer. I can hit the exact same combo if I just speed everything up a little bit so I figure it's not some normal proration issues

Edited November 12, 2013 by Pen_Ninja

[sinder]

does anybody know how the kokonoe match up is??? I wanna know if Carl is screwed because of her OP damage output

Also.I feel so useless here since I can't fight anybody until 2 weeks from now ;_;

[Rishtopher]

I'm admittedly, not a very good Carl, but I find that the Kokonoe matchup pretty hard.

Locking her down is tough, her mobility is just so good. Personally, it feels like I'm fighting a mix of Tao and Rachel with Hakumen damage.

If she tosses out fireball+graviton, you're pretty much always locked down. If I can, I just vivace+summon Ada the second I see her toss anything out and try to get in her face. Otherwise, if you try to stay back, it seems like you're subject to fireball+teleport crossup. If you're expecting teleport, mashing 2A works, I find. That said, the invincibility from her teleport seems like it kicks in quickly? She's projectile/strike invincible til she reappears. Keep your pressure tight or else she just ends up behind you. No frame data on it yet, but recovery seems like it's about the same as A Vivace?

Not quite sure how to deal with super fireball reversal. When she tosses that out there, you pretty much have to back off before the fireball comes back. If you're unlucky enough to be caught in the super fireball and graviton, it seems like GG right there. No experience with dealing with black hole yet, so I can't say how that'll go. Keep in mind, I've fought like 2 Kokonoe's lol. Just throwing in my experience with her so far, if someone wants to give a more complete breakdown/correct me on stuff, please go ahead :P

EDIT: Her 22B trap feels like Geroge, if you get stuck in the corner and get knockdown, she'll usually lay that out and backup to catch rolls. After that she can set graviton up and either try to fireball crossup or some high-low mixup. I hope you like blocking lol.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Rishtopher

[sinder]

Thanks Ristopher

I also heard that she has 13f of invincibility on her back dash... ;___;

looks like she's gonna get a makoto style nerf

[Pen_Ninja]

Well I came 3rd at this major. Not overly happy tbh. I ate far too many Jin DPs for my liking. It's always Jin T_____T

[JG]

Well I came 3rd at this major. Not overly happy tbh. I ate far too many Jin DPs for my liking. It's always Jin T_____T

Yeah, sometimes that happen... especially when you are relearning this character on CP.

Maybe you know this, no harm in mentioning but again Jin, on the corner you can always do:

j2.C, j.C, 2]D[+2A, 2B~A, *2B/5B/j.B.

*optional

Input the 2]D[ in a way that if the opponent try to jump using emergency tech, this move will catch him during the jump startup and if the opponent doesn't tech the 2A+2]D[ will reset the combo.

So? what will this do? well, if the opponent doesn't tech he will get reseted by this and you can actually repeat this oki or do another one, if they jump 2]D[+2A will catch him during the Jump Startup, if they mash DP or a reversal you will automatically barrier block that move and if you perform any *, it will appear automatically after the barrier block. Finally if they try to roll, 2]D[+2A will catch him and if they do just tech and block, after the 2]D[+2A, the 2B will appear and it will be followed by the * if you inputed the optional part. In the end i guees this is an option select , is kinda hard to do... but it seem very useful.

I hope that this could help you if you didn't know about this. Also, Carl can do this type of stuff with almost any combination of moves.

[sinder]

Pen I am sad that you lost to a Jin

Now Ryuusei can laugh at all of our faces ;_;

[Rishtopher]

Ryuusei plays Litchi now lol

[sinder]

Ryuusei plays Litchi now lol

*My Suicide note*

I've just learned that one of my all time favorite Blazblue players is exhibiting Tier whoring. I can understand the leave from Carl to Jin (because apparently "Carl can't do anything against a good Jin" but the fact that he is going from Jin to Litchi is just... appalling. They play nothing alike!!! Why the sudden interest?! Ryuusei, you disappoint me. Now whenever I watch an a-cho and you're involved there's gonna be another Litchi match I'm going to have to endure/skip. I just wish you stayed with Carl, as you gave all Carl players hope. 2 months and you'll probably be using Valk as well.

Best Regards: Sinder

Edited November 18, 2013 by sinder

[JG]

Now that 5B is no longer jump cancelable on block, we can't do cross-up and high/low mixup after that move during lockdown. If we want to do something similar we are forced to use 6A, only if the opponent is very close to us or 5C. The issue with 5C is that add more moves to our lockstring, making it a little bit more longer BUT more easy to mash a DP during it.

In EXT day, Kyaku like other Carl players tend to use 2A, 5B, 6]D[ empty jump cross-up or high/low.

Is true that we can do 5C, 6]D[ or Tenerezza, jump high/low mixup or IAD j.2C~Allecancel, this is kinda similar but it isn't as good as the EXT 5B mixup during lockdown, because 5C tend to push further away the enemy...

...Or 6B, Tenerezza crossup... but Tenerezza cross-up tend to be a little bit straightforward.

My question is, what type of compact cross-up and high/low mixup we have now during lockdown? like the one in EXT with, 5B Jump into cross-up or high/low.

[Psykotik]

I don't find 5C's pushback to be that much off an issue tbh. I actually prefer it over 5B due to the additional blockstun. One string you could do in the corner is 5B, 6B, 6A, j.2C, 6D into whatever for a high/low mixup.

*My Suicide note*

Don't quote me on this but I heard rumors where Ryuusei switched because he felt that Jin couldn't fight Kokonoe. Kinda makes you wonder about the game's balance if a top player feels that a character like Jin can't compete against the best.

[sinder]

[bBCP] Carl Combo Video - Fight the Power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd53IH7WVZc

How is nobody talking about this? I'm going to transfer or whatever the technical term is) the combos later tonight. Some of these options are beautiful. But there are some things I learned you can manipulate to make them easier/more optimal (yeah I went there :$)

with that being said, JG you have some of the best editing skills I've seen for a DL user here and you deserve more recognition not just as a great Carl player

[Raiza57]

"So I wanted to apologize for not playing & representing Carl at NEC. TBH I would have did a lot better if I had used him, but my team would have done worse. So I chose a character to compliment my teammates poor matchups further making us more solid as a whole. Either way, I had been holding out on a lot of tech, for like a month now, not wanting anyone to find out about how amazing our character can be so that I may blindsight them at the tournament. Sadly to say, I didn't even use him. Sorry for holding out for so long."

My dearest apologies~ Akira-Shiro

Lmao Shiro is a clown. And this is a lie. Cause I knew about the tech lol

I dont think i'm suppose to tell you this, but shiro had something on his laptop since like 1-2weeks before the tourny. He just sent it to Jourdal after he got back.

Keep an eye you video theads for an update by Jourdal.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Raiza57

[sinder]

BBCP Carl Clover Burning Bright

http://youtu.be/pPuEZvNmFUM

Never would have used Allegretto's push back to create a mix up

I don't think anybody has lol, that was nice, but the timing is probably strict

[Raiza57]

Never would have used Allegretto's push back to create a mix up

I don't think anybody has lol, that was nice, but the timing is probably strict

LMAO I know for a fact its not, I was his test dummy for a lot of this stuff just to see how effective it is in real gameplay. Lol he just mashes that stuff out in the order you see it on the screen. I think its ja>allegreto> ball (Or whatever its called)

I when he told me that.

[sinder]

LMAO I know for a fact its not, I was his test dummy for a lot of this stuff just to see how effective it is in real gameplay. Lol he just mashes that stuff out in the order you see it on the screen. I think its ja>allegreto> ball (Or whatever its called)

I when he told me that.

lmao

[NecroTheReaper]

So hey, finally gettin around to working on my Carl, and every time I try and do the UB reset, I can't ever ruin the proration bad enough off a B starter Dx do the UB resets in CP have a different timing than Extend? Cuz usually j.A spam into j.B would automatically make the opponent block the j.B but it just won't do it @.@

On a side note, holy shit its 200% easier to do 6k+ combos with CP Carl

[sinder]

^2A>2B>5B>5C>46D>(J.A)x5>j.2C>j.A>3[D]>j.A>3]D[

aka Eesuke Special

guaranteed Reset

I would recommend that one (you can also use 5A, switch 2B and 5B, etc)

Make sure to use lot's of As during the combo

you can also be lazy and delay j.b during 3D when fighting characters with weak DPs

the first option is your best bet though

[NecroTheReaper]

So I'm guessin its not easily do-able without the ghetto delay j.B method on a 5B starter is it? xD I've been followin the usual path of 5B...>6C>2A>2A>5B>2B>5C>46D>j.Ax4>j.2C>j.Ax2>UB and it just doesn't seem to waste enough time Dx

[Psykotik]

If you're using that route, try to run the proration timer for as long as possible by adding some extra attacks to extend the combo.

5B>2B>6B>6D>6C>2A>5A>2A>5A>5B>2B>5C>46D>j.Ax4>j.2C>j.Ax2>UB

Whenever I use this route, I usually airdash at a higher height and use j.AAC instead of j.AAB. The bigger gap makes it easier for the setup to uncombo.

[spineshark]

hi, I think I've finally decided that I just wanna play this character (since I realized that the main thing I like about most of the other characters I've messed with is doing stupid troll bs and not really "trying to win"), but I've got a few questions about basic setplay.

First, if I get a midscreen ground combo and I don't have Ada handy at all, what do I do? I've been just going into Cantabile, calling her during it, then rolling to the other side for sandwich, but is that usually the best option? I noticed right away he doesn't have the solo launch combos from EX, so I'm assuming that's the main thing but maybe there's something I haven't thought of? And similarly if I get a throw, do I just juggle into a jC knockdown and try to sandwich off that?

Also, let's say I know that I have Ada behind them but not in range for 6]D[ or anything like that. is it good to go for Fuoco in that case to close the gap and get a meaty?

[Psykotik]

First, if I get a midscreen ground combo and I don't have Ada handy at all, what do I do? I've been just going into Cantabile, calling her during it, then rolling to the other side for sandwich, but is that usually the best option? I noticed right away he doesn't have the solo launch combos from EX, so I'm assuming that's the main thing but maybe there's something I haven't thought of? And similarly if I get a throw, do I just juggle into a jC knockdown and try to sandwich off that?

It's possible to do midcombo summons during solo ground combos provided that you can do it well before cantabile. The following link would be an example of this: http://youtu.be/Q32XJu5LPQo?t=21s

You can do this with throws as well: throw, 22D, 236A, 5C, etc.

Also, let's say I know that I have Ada behind them but not in range for 6]D[ or anything like that. is it good to go for Fuoco in that case to close the gap and get a meaty?

I do this sometimes but it might not be airtight depending on the spacing. Your other options are summon, silenced volante or yomi Brio if the doll is close enough and you think they'll try to jump out.

[wiredgod]

I'm struggling with what you want to do when the opponent is just outside the range of your 5B. I recognize your best options in this spacing are going to be character specific, but what are your options here? 6B and 5C both have hefty startup. Moving forward will get you hit. Am I wrong in thinking your best bet is backdash + nirvana input?

[sinder]

I'm struggling with what you want to do when the opponent is just outside the range of your 5B. I recognize your best options in this spacing are going to be character specific, but what are your options here? 6B and 5C both have hefty startup. Moving forward will get you hit. Am I wrong in thinking your best bet is backdash + nirvana input?

I'm going to assume that your talking about what to do when it's just you and the opponent

in other words N>>>>>>>>>>>>CO

Against a good player I recommend to always have Ada close by, so I would suggest backdash and Ada teleport. IF your opponent is the mashing goddess you can sometimes use 6B to stuff them to get the CH twirly property (if you're online this work against most mashers, as will raw 5A)

However you're better off calling Ada, so air back dash teleport or back dash teleport (or even double jump teleport since Carl's j.a is decent)

And you are right that these options are some what "character specific" in the sense that some characters can completely over ride any option Carl will do in NCO stage (litchi, Noel, Kagura, Amane since they have much better range, can get decent counter hits and do nasty combo damage) to name a few

Against other characters though, I would go with 2B and 6B under certain conditions. Remember that Carl's normals are very very bad unless he has Ada around, so try to get in CNO at least. If NCO is what you're getting in most of the time try those other options I listed.

[Raiza57]

Carl da god.......

That is all.