[Accent Core] Order-Sol Combo Thread

[WUT]

If you're not 2/3rds to the corner or closer, don't bother trying to Dust Loop Johnny. If you are near the corner, you can't delay anything, or you can opt to only do one j.HS, j.D into a relaunch. From midscreen I stick to 5S©[JI], 5HS SJC combos on him. They lead to 180+ from a Lvl1 GB. Pretty nice.

[Hatred Edge]

Can I ask you guys what the most thorough uses for Level 1 moves are, for the sake of building charge?

That's what I see a lot of people do. And of course charge keep. I really should mix that into my game. They are mainly for small combo enders and charge keep and building charge.

I've been using LV1 RI Counterhit on block sometimes since it has ground slide, but I'm not sure how to follow up from Ground Slide.

Rock It lvl.1 CH is odd. I'm not used to landing CH Rock It. But if you and you can land it:

-2K,5S,5HS,SJC,j.S,j.HS,j.D,BRP

or

-2S,5HS,IAD,j.P,j.S,j.D,SV The main thing is you must be QUICK. It's very easy to miss the combo window.

Also looking for the best opportunity in a combo for LV1 SV, since I can't seem to use it properly in various situations (i.e. getting it to hit twice).

SV is a distance thing. If you aren't close enough it won't hit twice. HOS's j.D pushes out on hit which is why you use BRP instead. I tend not to use SV lvl.1 in combos outside of midscreen AA combos.

Also uses for LV1 BRP that don't involve FRC and Tick Throws.

Overhead?

Also what are the safest moves to action charge from/situations?

Fullscreen against some opponents. And it also depends on if your opponent knows if they can punish it.

[reaVer]

Can I ask you guys what the most thorough uses for Level 1 moves are, for the sake of building charge?

I've been using LV1 RI Counterhit on block sometimes since it has ground slide, but I'm not sure how to follow up from Ground Slide.

Also looking for the best opportunity in a combo for LV1 SV, since I can't seem to use it properly in various situations (i.e. getting it to hit twice).

Also uses for LV1 BRP that don't involve FRC and Tick Throws.

Also what are the safest moves to action charge from/situations?

Whether CH l1Ri can be followed up depends on the distance. But if close enough you just use the regular slide follow up (2S5H sIAD.P-H SV) as described by Hatred Edge. Otherwise you can only link a fafnir and it pretty much ends there.

LV1 BRP is an overhead which can be comboed if RC'ed, depending on how you follow up your first GB will either crossup or not crossup. If you learn this situation you have another way to fuck with your opponent:)

Safe AC situations don't really exist, you have to give people the impression it's a stupid idea to try and get a counter hit on one of those. So for example, the first time you do Ri AC and you get away with it, the second time you most probably wouldn't, but that's where your fafnir would come in handy. If you successfully keep confusing your opponent like that you either gain level resulting in damage or damage from a CH, so with proper mixup this becomes win-win.

Thorough uses for lvl1 moves, hmmm, well simply put, they are your staple moves, given any situation, at least one of those moves would work. If you want to see some good l1 action you should check out KZO, he barely leaves l1 but if given the chance he's as damaging as 0 and co. 0 kinda applies what KZO is doing, except he charges more, so some moves are more useful to 0 then to KZO(who only charges to get him out of icky situations and in combos). For example, l1BHB AC is a pain to spot and punish and if FRCed the thing even has an advantage. At the same time, KZO has more use for the l1BRP then 0 has, because KZO has more tension available to him to mix with it where 0 has to save that tension to keep AC FRC mixups going.

Using your charge and tension kinda depends on how you use it, its hard to have both at the same time and a tension based OS can hurt just as badly as a lvl based OS. If you get both as most OS players these days try(such as 0, Inoue and Sanma) your OS is pretty much a mini slayer getting insane damage from random crap, but this is HARD. So it kind of depends on what you want to do. You could also use charge cancels to play games with people, like: you cancel into charge, but don't immediately stop the charge. Varying this successfully you will achieve 2 things: more meter, a confused and pissed off opponent that is becoming very eager to attack you, and that means a CH from for example a fafnir and then from the next setup a hit into a beefy combo(on some characters this could cost them the game).

[Sesshyru]

Ok, now that I have gotten a good amount of practice, I’m starting to be able to "react" to things instead of just following a linear scope of things. I have decided to go with the brawler build on most characters (charge build for Zappa). I get most of my dmg from D. Loop, Fafnir and 2D tricks. CCing is a pivotal point of my attacks and I’m working on getin better at it. I’m having a hard time on a few things: HJI conecting the 2nd j.hs or j.D, what to do after 2d -> RI, how to connect after RI lvl 2 and Impossable dust, and geting more use out of 6K. 1: I can pull off everything on the HJI untill I get in the air. (Do something into 5s©) -> JC->5HS->HJ->j.S->j.HS->j.D By then im too far away to do anything, even a PBR. And I can't get it to connect even if I try a j.S->j.K The kick miss'... 2: After I do a 2D->RI I usually wait until they tech or something and try to throw a 5HS in their face and do something after it, but it doesn't work all the time and I was wondering what other people do in this situation. I do this often because I’m usually too far out to CC into a 5K. 3: People tech out of lvl 2RI before I can do stuff 4: After 6K on oki I do a BHB or a 2D, what do other people do? Also, to rush in I usually do 66->2D->tricks and/or jump and do a ton of punches. I’m tryin to work my self out of this because its predictable and I do it with out thinking. Forcing my self to lead in with 5k is nice but I do a 6k more often than not and quite irritating. From watching all the combo videos, people who use brawler builds almost never do the same lead in attack string 2 times in the same match.. @.@ Hard to mimic. Any tips? Im mostly intrested in wat other people do.

[Hatred Edge]

If people are teching out of lvl.2 RI before you can do anything you're doing something wrong. What do you do before Rock It? Not 5HS I hope... because you won't be able to do a follow up afterwards. 2D>RI lvl.1 is more like something you use if you know you're opponent's style. For instance if your opponent knows that's setup it won't work. Most videos I've seen of Order-Sol and matches I've played I don't see 2D>Rock It. It's a move based on the knowledge of your opponent. Rushing in and 2D isn't a amazing option since you limit yourself to CC, specials,or stopping. It could work if you're opponent can't block low. As if... 6K on oki... you're at +Fs. Continue your offensive or CC or back off. You ever try baiting your opponents? If people know you're gonna attack and you expect them to block you can try throwing. Hell even not doing 6K can work in your favor. Trying baiting you're opponents. Order-Sol has a lot of potential. Do you see 6K being used a lot? There's a reason for that. Mix up your moves. You better have a plan if they start beating 6K. And stop trying to mimic people. The players you see aren't you and you aren't playing against their opponents. I have a saying when it comes to people who play the same character I do: "we all use the same tools just in different ways." We may play the same character and even fight the same characters but people are too different to just mimic what you see. What you see may work against their opponent but may not work against yours. The only thing I see combos vidoes combos is for trying out how accurate your execution is by doing uncommon things. Playstyle isn't like a combo. And if you're having trouble doing 5K instead of 6K, go into training mode and practice releasing 6 and/or pressing 4 before doing 5K. I had that problem when I started practicing Rock It lvl.2 combos.

[LM_Akira]

For Lv2 RI combos, make sure your gatling beforehand is short otherwise you won't be able to follow up unless you RC it. Dash 5K will work after a midscreen hit, as well as (dash) j.P (but the j.P won't connect on ED, JO, KY, PO, RO, TE tho). 5S© will also connect after midscreen hit if your gatling is really short, e.g. 5K, 5S©, Lv2 RI, 5S©, 5HS hj.IAD, j.P, j.HS, SV. Dash 5S© also works in the corner to go into dust loop. RCing the 2nd hit of Lv2 RI will allow you to follow up anywhere with a direct dash j.HS but it's up to you if you want to waste that much Tension. Lv2 RI could also be used as a tech trap if you just run up after the 2nd hit.

[Sesshyru]

Thanks for the tips. lol don't get me wrong, its kinda impossible for me to completely mimic somebody, just not in me. I figure if I can at least get other combos down I can get used to some stuff of my own; more like expanding your knowledge by takin a walk in someone else’s shoes nahmisayin? I don't do 6K often, but when I do I'm kinda after its over. I switch up often between GB, 2HS, j.HS, and other tricks. I agree with your philosophy of lookin at combo vids, I do that too, just like I said getin it down will (should) give more options. The only time I do RI is after a 2D, so it doesn't connect for that reason I suppose. I'll have to switch it up. Never thought about CCing 6k.. Seems knida hard sence you gota time it so much.

[LM_Akira]

Dash 6K on oki has a few options. On hit you can gatling to 2D for knockdown which resets the situation. You could also CC and go back in for more pressure. On block you can CC, gatling to 2D (if they're blocking high) or delay cancel to BHB for pressure. On CH you get stagger so can CC and combo into Fafnir or dash buffered Fafnir or go for BHB into combo, whatever.

[lars]

yep cc the 6k is gold as meaty.....it's not really hard just think to use it.....

[Hintalove]

6k is awesome... if your opponent is reversal-less. The best time to use it is the kd after you did something throwable, but really meaty 6k leaves you with very few options if they don't try to throw you, and depending on how late you do it(to mask it) and the matchup, it can potentially lose to some characters' neutral HS.

[WUT]

To clarify:

Super ambiguous 6K (we'll say startup of 11F, since you want that throw invincibility before their reversal throw can take effect) will lose to Robo-Ky, Ky, Millia, Chipp, Faust, Venom, Testament, and Baiken 5HS, the fastest of those being 5/6/7 frames (Robo, Millia, and Chipp, respectively). It will trade with Sol and Moroha ABA 5HS (11). You will NOT be autoguarded by Anji 6HS (autoguard from frames 12-19 )

Super early 6K (leaves you at +6. You can actually be thrown out of it if you try for the last active frame, but no one's going to try throwing after you telegraph that 6K so heavily) is amazing for making people sit still and guard. Solid for oki.

Super meaty 6K (full 10 frames of active goodness) will hit all but Pot, I-no, and Slayer out of reversal backdash.

All that being said, 6K is awesome. It's an epic "STFU" move.

Most importantly: 2D CC 6K whiff 6K CH never gets old.

[Hatred Edge]

2D CC 6K whiff 6K CH?! Never heard of anyone using the Spartan Kick(that's right) like that before.

[reaVer]

To clarify:

Super early 6K (leaves you at +6. You can actually be thrown out of it if you try for the last active frame, but no one's going to try throwing after you telegraph that 6K so heavily) is amazing for making people reversal you with a super or a dragonpunch. Not so solid for oki.

Fixed.

I'd go for 6K only if I have 25% to make the CH worth it, and I wouldn't do it meaty because it destroys your offense when guarded. 2H during oki in contrast tends to be a lot less obvious for the opponent and that on CH without tension can easily net you 200+ dmg against any character. 6K I'd use during a situation where someone actually has to throw or wants to command throw.

[Hintalove]

The problem with 6k is that you just plain shouldn't do it all the time. I remember back when I started playing the game, and at that lvl of play reversal throw is the shit on rims, so like 90% of the time I would just mash on meaty 6h with Jam. This works if your opponent is a retard/cant reversal dp, but in any level of standard play its just going to get you killed, and in the best case take away your momentum. Not that 6k doesn't have it's place, but we get people coming into these forums saying stuff like "The things I like to do meaty are 6k to bait throw, 2k if I'm going low, and 2h/5d to go high. Man my mixup is so carayzeee". People get stuck in that rut trying to imrpove on that style of oki, and thats why they never improve. Really, reversal safe oki is the only way to go in this game, at least until you've established a point that your opponent is confused enough they don't know whats going on. If you run up and 6k right on your first kd, they're going to just block it(if they don't dp you) and then they're going to know that if you're running at them on the ground then you're probly going to throw a 6k(of course you could always manipulate this situation in ways to benefit you, but hos really doesn't have any good grounded ways to bait dps in this situation). It would be much better to try to trick your opponent into trying to throw you then just establishing right off the bat that reversal throw is not an option. I personally thing if you're not charging or doing gb mixups, the only respectable way to lay down oki is with a super meaty js or jd. Jk works too, but has way less block stun so it is less effective. From here you open up all sorts of guessing, as well as put your self in a situation where you can utilize hos's most effective pressure options and basically do what ever guard string you want. Of course, unless you're going for a fuzzy guard, remember to hold back so you block the dragon punches that this method baits. Once your opponent knows they are forced to block your stuff, it's really easy to land and go low, and then once you do that you can throw in late air dashes... ect. Some times it feels like American gear players just plain don't understand the wakeup game that is the heart and soul of this game:vbang: ps: I know I've said this all before, but some how we ended up in the meaty 6k argument again, and I felt it needed reiteration.

[WUT]

6K CH not worth it? You score 150+ easy with 2D CC, 200~ with Lvl2, and 220+ with Lvl3. I'd never limit myself to saying "okay, I have 25% tension so now 6K is a viable oki option". You should be comfortable with all your launches. I'm not saying 6K is the be all, end all for Oki. I'm simply advocating more options. Sure, you are prone to eating reversal shoryus and overdrives if you go with a meaty grounded attack. You also prevent people from trying to escape via jumping or backdashing. It's a tradeoff. If you're having problems with people always reversaling your non-reversal-safe oki, then you're not punishing reversals effectively or your opponent is thickheaded, at which point you already control the pace of the match. As for American players not understanding the wakeup game....your feelings are pretty much dead on. Most Americans are afraid to guard, which is understandable given how a majority of them lack matchup experience versus most of the cast and can only learn the game with those they regularly play against, leading to bad habits. Bad habits in this case being to look for any and all opportunities to escape/poke/invincible move counterattack instead of doing the safe alternative: blocking. In tournaments especially, I get more damage from punishing escape/counterattack attempts then I ever do from GB mixups, fuzzy guard setups, or tick throws. Maybe it's just my style of play (potentially), maybe it's just people not knowing the matchup (doubt it, pretty much every scene in the US has at least one HOS player or someone who's dabbled in him), or maybe it's just bad habits or tournament jitters (most likely). Until more people get comfortable competing against players they've never had a chance to play extensively against, the American scene is always going to have that panicky defensive mindset. And for the record, dashing FD brake, 6P is manly for stuffing/whiffing reversal DPs, and it leaves you with frame advantage. It even goes so far as to clash with VV, leaving you primed to punish the shit out of him. If your opponent wants to reversal DP in the corner, you get 200 damage and a reset. It's amazing. Just pointing out that HOS' options in any given situation are amazing and you're never stuck with only being able to do just one thing at any point. That's why playing HOS is so fun.

[reaVer]

I remember saying I don't do 6K as oki... Next to that, I want my opponent to eat 250 dmg when I remind him I have 6K. Anything lower is pretty pointless:P

[Hintalove]

I'm not saying it's not worth it, but I am saying that using it all the time is not playing to your max potential. On top of that, I tend to fall in the same camp as reaver in that I have a higher impulse to do it if I feel a throw coming and have the tension to go for it. As for the damage at lv1/2, I don't see where you're getting such big numbers, especially with no meter. Post me up some combos so I can get learned too:keke: Lastly, when you say run up and fd break into 6p, are you saying you want to block the dp or 6p the dp :O Also, clashing with VV isn't really a good thing as it takes away your ability to punish him if the sol is smart(or you do that a lot). I bait dp with whiffed normal then block, or sj then block :/ 6p must be too manly for me.

[Sesshyru]

Um so you don't oki a 6k?.. I thought it was good cause you can go into BHB or 2D or a gatling but hum.. Oh and one more thing, has anybody ever done a HJI Half D.loop in mid screen? I tested a GB into the normal half dust loop (2 reps of j.HS -> j.D): did 150 something dmg. The HJI with just a quarter D.loop (1 rep of j.HS->j.D) did 165->170 with out BRP connecting. O.O So is it possible to connect a half loop mid screen with HJI? When I do my 2nd jump he’s alrdy plummeting down to the ground. I can get it to work in the corner, does a nice 180-195. I can brake 200 but only with fafnir.

[Tsak]

id say that WUT is right when people know that 6K has throw invincibility they really don't fuck with it well atleast here in america seriously besides getting backdashed by slayer i haven't had it get beaten out lol well i do use it pretty randomly and the people i play don't have too much hos exp so it help

[Kamui Moon]

So is it possible to connect a half loop mid screen with HJI?

Yes, it's "sort of" possible. As a matter of fact, my normal midscreen HJI combo of late is a deep 5Sc HJI hj.S, j.H, j.D, JC j.S, j.D. You can get a BRP if it was 50% or less away from the corner. I don't know, I just prefer it to the normal j.P, j.H, SV followup since I usually only get a 1-hit SV. Works on everyone but Johnny and Robo. And it's kinda tough on May.

Actually, I've been messing with a bunch of midscreen stuff lately just for lulz. 5D, j.H, j.H, j.S, j.K, j.S, j.H, j.D, JC j.P, j.H, SV will work on pretty much everyone. Which is nice since I always drop IDs. Hell, you can hit Slayer with the corner 5D combo at midscreen.

All this oki discussion just reminds me how American my play is.

[Sesshyru]

Ah coo, ill try that. And does your 5D really connect that much >.>..... Its the slowest move in existance.. And how do you pull off 2 j.HS' befor the blue stuff? I only get it if im spaming. Are Americans really that bad >.>?

[Tsak]

Ah coo, ill try that. And does your 5D really connect that much >.>..... Its the slowest move in existance.. And how do you pull off 2 j.HS' befor the blue stuff? I only get it if im spaming.

Are Americans really that bad >.>?

heres a pro video of americans playing

5D in action

http://youtube.com/watch?v=v4JlWfhJpI8

if you watch all the sets juicy lands like every 5D with hos lolz

[Kamui Moon]

And how do you pull off 2 j.HS' befor the blue stuff? I only get it if im spaming.

Are Americans really that bad >.>?

Just hold up while doing them. That's really it. You do have to hit it pretty fast, though.

5D, [8] j.H, j.H, ]8[ j.S, j.K...

Not everyone in America is bad. I just know I have some terrible habits that I can't break.

[Hintalove]

Bad is the wrong word. Our best just happen to rank in with the mid tier of Japanese players, but ultimately fail due to lack of good matchup experience. Not doing ID's constitutes lack of manliness

[lars]

yep same in europe mess of experience a looooooot so strategie, tier list are pretty different then in japan personnaly 6k works for me a lot cause in europe if ur opponent is close to u in wakeup he'll mash throw so taht works a lot the worst is that there are a lot of strats i can't use cause opponents are just fuckingly stupid and i'm in the same case cause some of that shit works for me take the 2k of dizzy.if i'm against a dizzy player he'll mash 2k in guard to get a nice counter if there's a hole..... i know it, anyways IT WILL WORK due to my lack of exp and it's the same with a waaaay of move 2d of venom for others reasons, 2hs of joh, shoryu of sol(not the one of ky though cause i tend to put some 2d when i see a ky shoryu masher), yada,yada level is low especially whereas exp.anyways when my opponent is'nt stupid i can build a solid pressure game an the ac become really more interesting