[CP] Carl vs Relius

[Psykotik]

Discuss the Relius matchup here

Random notes:

- If Relius doesn't have his doll, Carl can mash 5A out of his strings into Id Haas; 5B>214A, 5B>5C>214A, and 5B>3C>214A are all unsafe strings when Ignis is not onscreen

- If Relius does doll super and you're trapped, try to IB backdash. You'll get hit but you'll be hit in the air and since the doll's busy doing the punch super, Relius won't get a huge combo of this nor will he be able to get a knockdown, resulting in you air teching and avoiding the situation at the cost of a relatively small amount of life. Of course, if you're on the brink of death, you don't really have a choice but to take the mixup. In that case, watch for led ley crossups as well as Relius' more conventional mixups.

- Remember that you can hit the doll to get it away form you. If Relius tries to zone with j.3/6/9D, tap the doll with j.A to make it disappear.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Psykotik

[Braver]

Is there a way to beat Relius' wake up backdash as Carl?

[NecroTheReaper]

Use Ada. Really xD playing as Relius, Carl is a very dangerous character to do corner backsteps on. Volante can hit him, fuoco can hit him, a well timed 6D could probably hit him too. Just don't limit your oki to Carl moves alone.

[Braver]

I was wondering more about a situation like:

[R] [C] [N]

where Nirvana is behind Carl and Carl is near Relius for oki.

I guess a good 46D will catch a back dashing Relius. At least I hope.

[NecroTheReaper]

Almost any move from Ada will catch Rel's backdash. The most risky one being 2D obviously. Volante, 46D, 6D, fuoco, 3D... all should be able to clip Rel during the recovery. I havnt played as Carl much yet, but I know how I behave as Relius.

[Braver]

I'm talking about when Nirvana is behind me. How will 3D hit Relius' backdash if Nirvana is behind me?

[Psykotik]

In the corner? 46D, Volante (provided that it's done early enough) and Fuoco will all catch backdashes. Relius can backdash a meaty 6D but Carl should be able to punish it by doing a delayed 5B or something.

Midscreen, you could try 46D but truth be told, it's probably going to be very hard (if it's even possible) to punish Relius' backdash midscreen if Nirvana's behind you.

[Braver]

Midscreen, you could try 46D but truth be told, it's probably going to be very hard (if it's even possible) to punish Relius' backdash midscreen if Nirvana's behind you.

I'll definitely experiment more with 46D

[NecroTheReaper]

Apologies, I didn't know you meant midscreen with Ada behind you xD; doesn't fuoco+vivace still catch him even if he backdashes? He could ley through fuoco, but that's risky.

Edit: I couldn't help but notice that you ignored the one good string Relius has into 214A and that's 6C>214A. Its a 5 frame gap, so while IB still beats it, it can't just be mashed for free. Also, any string into 214A is usually done from Relius' 2/5B range, outside of Carl's 5A range. Also, backdash out of doll punch super doesn't guarantee escape all the time. Micro dashes between hits keeps them airborne until the last hit, and relius could just 3C/air grab by then.

Edited November 22, 2013 by NecroTheReaper