vs. Slayer

[ajinkris]

Disclaimer: This is by no means the complete, end-all guide for this matchup. Please feel free to chime in or correct me on anything. I will add and edit this post to accommodate your comments.

SLAYER

The matchup is, supposedly, in Slayer's favor. After watching tons of videos and playing the matchup a lot, I'd have to say that it's closer to even (but still slightly in Slayer's favor, just because one mistake by you is pretty bad). I'll go ahead and bullet point things you should take note of:

- To win this matchup, you must maximize both modes of VE (zoning and pressure) and make as few mistakes as possible. Two mistakes coupled with improper blocking spells an easy death against SL. Understand that VE has all of the tools to keep him out, but you have to be constantly mindful of his meter and spacing - a BBU or CH DoT will destroy you.

- 5S(f) and 2S are tools to keep Slayer from constantly advancing. A Slash coupled with a ball in front of it will work wonders. Note that 5S can be punished by SL's 6P and 2S can be punished by SL's 2HS.

- 2D can be used to stop close Dandy Steps. The 2D will usually hit Slayer before his follow-up occurs. I wouldn't recommend 2Ding against K-Dandy, since the chances of you hitting the Dandy before the followup are slim. However, if they do K-Dandy and use Pilebunker or Crosswise instead of the S followup, block and punish. S follow can still be punished with 2D from any range.

- j.HS is a tricky one to deal with. If you time your anti-airs early enough, they'll work...but most of the time you'll get straight beat out. 6P and 6HS are your main options, however, when in doubt: block. Keep your eyes peeled for 6P and 5S© opportunities because SL will definitely be airborne after you annoy him enough with ball zoning.

- A way to deal with jump-happy SLs is to use the (somewhat impractical) FB CR -> 66 -> K-ball. This creates a ball at the perfect spot to stop jump-ins. Continue zoning with lower balls (such as P and S).

- Staying in the air is fairly unsafe. His anti-air package is ridiculous: 5P, 2S, 6HS, 6P, Dandy K, and BDC j.P makes sure he has almost every angle covered.

- Try to use formations that cover both high and low. Examples: (HS, K), (K, P), (K, S -> 2P). Once he's out he should have a pretty difficult time getting in.

- SL can escape CR pressure by back dashing / forward dashing.

- Dubious Curve can be punished by Dandy Step and BBU.

- Beware of Mappa Punch, that shit will go full screen every time. With this in mind, never freely ball summon.

- Once again, I need to stress the importance of watching his meter. If you get too careless, he will punish you to hell with either BBU or DoT.

When I play this match-up, I just kinda zone him with projectiles until I can get some kind of momentum going and start some real pressure. Slayer's movement is kinda limited since he can't run, so there's not a ton he can do about the basic K ball->P ball, 5P shit until he has some bar. Otherwise he has to take to the air eventually, and your 6P will beat j.HS as long as the angle is decent. If not, run back under him and hit the ball he jumped over back at him, then continue zoning. Once you get your offense going, it seems like BDC sucks now for getting out of Venom's shit IMO. You almost get to fight him like a normal character

Problem with this fight is that it sucks dick when he's on top of you because CH anything means you're gonna get raped (should be tons of motivation to not hit buttons much), and if he has bar BBU will make things gay even if you're on the offensive. Also, I think DoT can fullscreen punish shit like ball summons if the Slayer is on top of his game o_O AKA "NOW THAT'S WHAT I LIKE TO CALL BIG DAMAGE".

That's it for now, will add more / organize later.

[frtpunchsamurai]

A way to deal with jump-happy SLs is to use the (somewhat impractical) FB CR -> 66 -> K-ball. This creates a ball at the perfect spot to stop jump-ins. Continue zoning with lower balls (such as P and S).

This is somewhat hard to execute, bec you still need to fulfill some things first.

1. Slayer should be near the corner

2. You should be near on the corner of the screen

[ajinkris]

This is somewhat hard to execute, bec you still need to fulfill some things first.

1. Slayer should be near the corner

2. You should be near on the corner of the screen

Yea. I guess I should've mentioned that. It's a tactic to secure your already safe position.

[TittyFOFO]

Not to call you out or anything, but I wanna clear up some misconceptions: Venom 5S(f) loses to Slayer's 6P. Definitely not something you wanna be CH by (although it'll only be a CH if he does his attack first). 2S loses to Slayer 2HS due to the weird foot invul when he stomps. You won't be CH normally, but you still might be in BBU range. Use with care. 2D will not dodge or even necessarily beat Pilebunker or Crosswise out of a Dandy Step. I dunno why, but the frame data says Pilebunker has a whopping 3F of startup once Dandy has started. 2D is 6F for comparison, and the fact that 2D isn't even actively hitting the whole time it's out doesn't help much either. When I play this match-up, I just kinda zone him with projectiles until I can get some kind of momentum going and start some real pressure. Slayer's movement is kinda limited since he can't run, so there's not a ton he can do about the basic K ball->P ball, 5P shit until he has some bar. Otherwise he has to take to the air eventually, and your 6P will beat j.HS as long as the angle is decent. If not, run back under him and hit the ball he jumped over back at him, then continue zoning. Once you get your offense going, it seems like BDC sucks now for getting out of Venom's shit IMO. You almost get to fight him like a normal character Problem with this fight is that it sucks dick when he's on top of you because CH anything means you're gonna get raped (should be tons of motivation to not hit buttons much), and if he has bar BBU will make things gay even if you're on the offensive. Also, I think DoT can fullscreen punish shit like ball summons if the Slayer is on top of his game o_O AKA "NOW THAT'S WHAT I LIKE TO CALL BIG DAMAGE".

[ajinkris]

Not to call you out or anything, but I wanna clear up some misconceptions:

Venom 5S(f) loses to Slayer's 6P. Definitely not something you wanna be CH by (although it'll only be a CH if he does his attack first).

2S loses to Slayer 2HS due to the weird foot invul when he stomps. You won't be CH normally, but you still might be in BBU range. Use with care.

2D will not dodge or even necessarily beat Pilebunker or Crosswise out of a Dandy Step. I dunno why, but the frame data says Pilebunker has a whopping 3F of startup once Dandy has started. 2D is 6F for comparison, and the fact that 2D isn't even actively hitting the whole time it's out doesn't help much either.

When I play this match-up, I just kinda zone him with projectiles until I can get some kind of momentum going and start some real pressure. Slayer's movement is kinda limited since he can't run, so there's not a ton he can do about the basic K ball->P ball, 5P shit until he has some bar. Otherwise he has to take to the air eventually, and your 6P will beat j.HS as long as the angle is decent. If not, run back under him and hit the ball he jumped over back at him, then continue zoning. Once you get your offense going, it seems like BDC sucks now for getting out of Venom's shit IMO. You almost get to fight him like a normal character

Problem with this fight is that it sucks dick when he's on top of you because CH anything means you're gonna get raped (should be tons of motivation to not hit buttons much), and if he has bar BBU will make things gay even if you're on the offensive. Also, I think DoT can fullscreen punish shit like ball summons if the Slayer is on top of his game o_O AKA "NOW THAT'S WHAT I LIKE TO CALL BIG DAMAGE".

- 5S and 2S are moves used to constantly keep him from advancing. The 6P CH is definitely noteworthy, so if the SL you're playing against utilizes that correctly then a ball cover will be needed. But yes, he has to do the 6P fairly early for the CH to happen, so hopefully the 5Sing doesn't become too predictable.

- Maybe I should've clarified, as dodge is probably the wrong word. 2D can be used to preemptively stop a Dandy Step attack. If you do it early enough, 2D will beat out the P-Dandy part. For K-Dandy, proper timing or even dashing up and 2D would work (although I wouldn't recommend it). However, the only time that 2D is definitely going to work is against S followup. Against Pilebunker and Crosswise, you have to make sure the 2D hits fairly early...but then again, if you see either coming it's probably better just to block and punish.

Everything else mentioned is pretty spot on, especially about the pressuring part. Just remember that he can still backdash CR if it isn't close enough. Slayer has a tough time with proper ball zoning, so the focus of the match should be on that, anti-airing, and pressure. Trying to beat him out is usually a bad idea anyways.

Note: Original post edited, thanks for the input Titan.

[CABINET SMASHER]

This matchup sucks. While his movement options are limited, Slayer can still chase you down via mappas and 2D, which he'll use if you're summoning balls outside of his 2H range. Venom functions best against him at nearly a full screens distance, but you'll only end up getting cornered easily because of it, so don't be afraid to summon H balls and teleporting when he gets close. Useful tidbit: 5P beats Slayer's 6K cleanly, and can lead to big combos. Don't expect to see it much outside of okizeme, though. :[

[frtpunchsamurai]

Nope its not as bad as fighting millia. Since we can still zone slayer pretty well, we can avoid to fight in close range.. And we can pawn slayers ass with corner-pressure of course.. What really makes him anoying is his ability to punish most of our moves 5S, ball seisei, dubious curve, carcass raid with huge ass damage. The best thing to do is to turtle and zone him and make him jump(since he's moves are limited in the air, and we can AA him when he gets down to chip some tension and gain momentum). If he gets close, wait for an opening to get KD, duh~ Just like titan said, dont do any risky moves in melee battle.. Probably 2k,5P,2S is your best bet to escape... 2D? ... @TITAN cool didn't know 2s lose to slayer 2H, but ill have to confirm how accurate it is.

[Jakestation]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO-99FTQuDQ

horrible match between me and my friend :D

i´m playing with pad so iad pressure shit is not very safe if i try it :/

imo 6hs can be very effective if they are going to dandy/jump out of blockstring, just don´t time it wrong or else slayer will hurt you badly.