[Xrd] Zato - General discussion and changes list

[Ryd']

Drawback to that is that it doesn't look like it gives you time/spacing to go into the 1-hit SG off the unblockable, which should generally be the preferred route on anyone it works on since it ends in knockdown+Eddie pressure.  Provided they have enough health to survive, anyway.  The primary advantage to jumping in from that distance is that it lets you safejump the unblockable vs anyone with a reversal.

[Kane-Z]

Drawback to that is that it doesn't look like it gives you time/spacing to go into the 1-hit SG off the unblockable, which should generally be the preferred route on anyone it works on since it ends in knockdown+Eddie pressure. Provided they have enough health to survive, anyway. The primary advantage to jumping in from that distance is that it lets you safejump the unblockable vs anyone with a reversal.

The timing for the -D > dash HS (3) > HS Drill ub seems to be a bit finicky as well when compared to the standard wallstick setup. I guess we can still go into the wallstick setup with a low number of SG loop reps.

[Antihero11]

A practical way to go into the SG loop from a Mawaru mix up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM0gFS1t1Jk

Sorry if I mistimed the first unblockable. I was in a bit of a hurry to upload.

I just wanted to say I love this combo and setup for it's flashiness. How difficult is it execution-wise? Do you feel it's as practical as the standard dust wall stick entry to unblockable.

Also, can somebody please link the standard wall stick entry unblockable. I've seen all the videos, but I'm not aware which one it is. Thanks guys, I need to start practicing it.

EDIT: Is this the standard (optimal) unblockable root as of now?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgftTpT43aE

 

[Ryd']

^That requires meter that you may not always have when you consider how potent YRCs are for Zato in his neutral game.  For the characters that it works on, the optimal route is probably:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OYkPEJ95uKM#t=31

(30ish seconds in if the link doesn't work right)

 

jH+drill SG(1) 66~5D~6 6P(2) cS 66 cS 5HS(3) 22HS

 

As for setting it up, Damned Fang is an obvious one.  As previously posted, RC'ing either throw in the corner without Eddie summoned will give you enough time to pull him out and go into SG loops.  Otherwise:

 

Mixup -K- 5D~6 6P(2) cS -D- 66 cS 2D fly

 

is a simple and effective route.

[Antihero11]

Thank you, the combo Ogawa does in that match is much more simple. I had a question about it. I can get every part of the combo to connect besides the Dash into 5D. Is the link from SG to 5D tight, or am I missing something?

Other than that, the rest of the combo seems relatively easy to link. And Damned Fang is a pretty easy setup into unblockable. I just think you need to get your opponent's to respect your pressure first before going for the command throw.

 

[xXavierx]

You want to make sure the second hit of the SG hits low enough so they slide all the way down the wall and sit on the floor. 

[Kane-Z]

I just wanted to say I love this combo and setup for it's flashiness. How difficult is it execution-wise? Do you feel it's as practical as the standard dust wall stick entry to unblockable.

Also, can somebody please link the standard wall stick entry unblockable. I've seen all the videos, but I'm not aware which one it is. Thanks guys, I need to start practicing it.EDIT: Is this the standard (optimal) unblockable root as of now?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgftTpT43aE

The standard wallstick setup is basically the second combo in my video above. Just replace the Shadow Gallery with another Mawaru to make it a bit easier. Our goal right now is to consistently get the Ogawa 1 hit SG combo for a hard knockdown instead of just an air combo after the unblockable.

[Antihero11]

That makes sense, I'll practice hitting with SG lower than I was before. I don't know if it's GG, Zato, or being new to an arcade stick... Or all three, but these execution barrier are hard to break through.

[Ryd']

Thank you, the combo Ogawa does in that match is much more simple. I had a question about it. I can get every part of the combo to connect besides the Dash into 5D. Is the link from SG to 5D tight, or am I missing something?

 

It's just a quick micro dash.  Zato's 5D has deceptively large range, and sometimes you don't even need to dash to get it to connect (depends on your opponent), but it never hurts since you should always have time for it.

[Sigma]

I just wanted to say I love this combo and setup for it's flashiness. How difficult is it execution-wise? Do you feel it's as practical as the standard dust wall stick entry to unblockable.

If you know the D, 6P, 5H, Summon unblockable, it's basically the same thing but with fuzzy overhead instead of the low airdash j.S j.H. Same inputs from there, with an extra Shadow Gallery in the middle.

I guess the difficulty is subjective though. That particular UB setup type is harder than the basic ones, at least.

 

The only issue I can see is it's hard to confirm if you connected the second or third overhead hit or not before going into SG.

If you get a Mawaru hit or the j.K somehow, it's not that much of a stretch.

Still safe even if you misjudge it, you just end up losing a -P- worth of meter.

 

Too bad SG isn't overhead.

 

The loop is kind of meter heavy. Just keep in mind you generate 0-Full Burst on the opponent by about the second rep.

Just about right before the second drill set if you go straight from Dust.

[Pen_Ninja]

Was trying to find some setups for the 1 hit SG off unblockable.

Turns out off most setups you can run up to the corner and jump backwards into j.H. So you want to knockdown in the corner then run at them until it's time to jump, then jump backwards.

Works on the following with some only if they stand block because j.H whiffs on their crouching hitbox from that far.

The others fail for various reasons.

 

Works:

Sin

Faust (yes, really)

Ky

I-No

Leo

Zato

Ramlethal

 

Works if they try to stand block:

Sol

May

Chip

Slayer

 

Doesn't work:

Millia
Elphelt

Potemkin

Axl

Venom

Bedman

 

Better than going for it without a setup IMO at least.

Obviously doesn't work on setups after long combos that leave you too far away (knockdowns with 22H).

[nima]

any tips for someone playing pad Zato?

Or should I just say fuck it and buy a stick.

[Ryd']

Map a few attack buttons to the shoulders and then teach your fingers to do crazy stuff.  Or buy a stick so you don't have to deal with your left hand potentially trying to do 3 things at once.

[wiredgod]

What I'm struggling with for this character lately: I get a knockdown midscreen, I summon Eddie, and I'm in their face.  My pressure strings get really predictable after a few matches.  What are some good options to mix up midscreen pressure?

[Ryd']

That's really hard to say without knowing what you're already doing.  In general, just make sure you aren't doing the same thing too often, like always going for Damned Fang after two reps of 2P 2K -P- while sandwiching the opponent.  Or you can decide midscreen mixup is for characters who have no choice but to slug it out there, and use Mawaru to carry to the corner.  Really though, you can manipulate two characters independently of each other and have two ground overheads, a standing low, a command throw, and a fuzzy guard; with options like those, a little creativity can take you a long way.

[Antihero11]

Yeah, I was going to say that your mixup with this character is limited only by your imagination. It'll reward your hard work if you keep practicing with him. Like any character, avoid auto-pilot strings. I usually like to corner carry with Mawaru, then go for mixups. Just be careful with corner carry since it wastes a lot of the Eddie meter. So you can unsummon him by the corner, setup a drill, then resummon to maintain your pressure.

Anyways, I've never used negative edge characters before, but I'm absolutely loving the pressure and mixups that you have when using two characters. It makes people so afraid to mash out of pressure. As long as you aren't predictable I feel you can get away with a lot, like summons/unsummons. You just need to condition your opponent first with drills. Also meaty drills are pretty amazing, I've seen Ogawa use them before, and they're great.

Lastly, got the unblockable SG loop down today. Only did it twice, but it's not too difficult when you get used to it. (After my first time, only took me one fail till I had it again, then had to stop.) It turns out my dust was timed fine, but I was allowing SG to hit twice. As long as you go for j.HS, and space well, it's not too bad. Just need it consistently now.

I wanted to know if -P- still has invincibility (intangibility) on it like it did AC+R. I know the animation is much different, but I wondered if it can beat reversals. If not, what would you guys recommend to beat people who like to mash out? -k-?





 

[xXavierx]

snip

 

 

If the first SG does hit twice, sometimes you can salvage it by RC'ing the 2nd hit and doing a TK SG with a little delay to wallstick again and  go into whatever. 

 

Also  iirc -p- is not invincible this time around. Any meaty will beat out normal mash, -k- being the easiest to time but it uses a lot of meter. meaty -s- is pretty good for this, counterhits lead to big damage but -k- still has it's place in the corner since it allows you to do the j.k  doublejump/low 50/50. Also it's worth noting that sometimes a meaty shadow attack will eat someone's wakeup super and you can punish them with Zato. Sometimes it's hard to recognize in the middle of a match but Ogawa does this in some videos. It can look weird sometimes like if a Ram does that wake up crawl looking super she'll hit little eddie but keep running at you but will never actually hit you 

[Kyosuke Kagami]

People, I am currently trying to re-learn Zato. Gawd now it's painfully hard to get used to him. Where can I find some bnbs and setups for starters? I tried doing his unblockable setup from Reload but it seems like it doesn't work anymore

 

Also, anyone here willing to help me online train with him?

[Antihero11]

If the first SG does hit twice, sometimes you can salvage it by RC'ing the 2nd hit and doing a TK SG with a little delay to wallstick again and  go into whatever. 

 

Also  iirc -p- is not invincible this time around. Any meaty will beat out normal mash, -k- being the easiest to time but it uses a lot of meter. meaty -s- is pretty good for this, counterhits lead to big damage but -k- still has it's place in the corner since it allows you to do the j.k  doublejump/low 50/50. Also it's worth noting that sometimes a meaty shadow attack will eat someone's wakeup super and you can punish them with Zato. Sometimes it's hard to recognize in the middle of a match but Ogawa does this in some videos. It can look weird sometimes like if a Ram does that wake up crawl looking super she'll hit little eddie but keep running at you but will never actually hit you 

Thank you for the input/advice and options. I find your posts very informative and you explain yourself very well. Meaty shadow attacks are even better than I thought. I love the mixups and potential this character has on offense.

[wiredgod]

That's really hard to say without knowing what you're already doing.  In general, just make sure you aren't doing the same thing too often, like always going for Damned Fang after two reps of 2P 2K -P- while sandwiching the opponent.  Or you can decide midscreen mixup is for characters who have no choice but to slug it out there, and use Mawaru to carry to the corner.  Really though, you can manipulate two characters independently of each other and have two ground overheads, a standing low, a command throw, and a fuzzy guard; with options like those, a little creativity can take you a long way.

 

I think the mixup will become more real over time, but I've gotten into a habit of doing something like mawaru > dash > 5K / 6K > 2P > -P- > 2K > Mawaru activated behind them > command grab. After that Eddie meter is exhausted.  Alternately some additional 2P > 2K > -P- stagger pressure instead of a second Mawaru.  In that case meter is exhausted again.  Unsummoning Eddie safely is a big problem.

[xXavierx]

Thank you for the input/advice and options. I find your posts very informative and you explain yourself very well. Meaty shadow attacks are even better than I thought. I love the mixups and potential this character has on offense.

 

Glad I can help! I feel like the character has a lot of tiny nuances that aren't always super obvious so I try to help out when I can 

[Kane-Z]

Ok. I just finished. It took me a while because I was double checking the combos along with the dmg. The majority of the combos (85%) were from the jpn wiki but I also added a few that we have been discussing and that I have seen Ogawa use in matches. Please feel free to correct me if you see anything wrong.

I also added a couple of my own notes.

Because the template for the combo thread still hasn't been decided the order is still pretty much all over the place but I think that could be easily fixed later. Excuse me for any grammatical mistakes. Most of the combos were tested on Sol.

I'll just leave this here for now:

http://pastebin.com/ms8EYrL9

EDIT: Forgot to write one more setup. Fixed.

[Kyosuke Kagami]

Dumb question:

 

All moves with a "-" means Negative Edge, right?

 

Do you guys know of any combos that don't involve Eddie and allow me to leave my opponent on the ground? The ones in Challenge are okay but I want to learn more.

[Grim-reaper]

Just wanted to say BIG THANKS to the guy who gave his pad button layout ( p/k default, R1:S, R2:HS, L1:D ).

Now i can finally pursue the dream of mastering my favourite character in the GG series as a pad player.

[ForgoneMoose]

 

Do you guys know of any combos that don't involve Eddie and allow me to leave my opponent on the ground? The ones in Challenge are okay but I want to learn more.

 

Only options midscreen are drill and 2D ender if you want knockdown.

 

5P/2P > 2D

 

5P > 2P > 2D

 

Starter > c.S > 2D

 

Be wary of using c.S to combo into sweep like that unless you start from very close to them, as you are liable to get f.S instead, obviously. Don't worry about too much about throwing out sweep without confirming it like that despite it being -7 on block, as it is both jump cancelable on block and special cancelable into drills to make it plus.

 

 

c.S > 5H(1) > 22S

 

Starter > c.S > 5H(3) > 22H

 

Starter > 2K > 2S > 5H > 22H

 

These are just some examples of combos into either drill. Generally, you want to be very close to combo from c.S/2S into 5H, or have dash momentum so you can do Starter > c.S/2S > 5H, but you can use different ones depending on what character you're comboing, and you have even more possible routes if you get a crouching hit. You have to play around with these a lot on your own and develop a feel for what you need to do just by looking at the spacing of the opponent.

 

 

The only way you're liable to get them back on the ground after an air hit by any circumstance is spending meter on sword super. Something like AA 6P > j.S > j.H 236236S

 

You can also do something like drill > TK sword super in some situations but its a really tight link and probably a waste of meter. Very flashy though.

 

 

In the corner, you can ground them with wallslide using either 5D or Shadow Gallery. You can combo into 5D using 2K RC, 2S RC, or 6K RC (probably not the best idea to throw 6K out randomly while solo though).

 

5D > 6 > j.S > j.H > j.D > c.S > 2S > 5H(3) > 22H or some similar variation is an easy combo to go for off 5D that ends in knockdown.

 

Still playing around with Shadow Gallery as of now, but you can combo into it after j.D in the above combo, CH 6H, or by RCing any of your air attacks. Lot less practical than the above options even if you do get it to connect since it launches them so far away midscreen and doesn't wallslide long enough to crumple in the corner unless you make the first hit whiff, which is generally something you want the help of Eddie for. I guess you could maybe do something like 5D > ... > j.D > SG > RC > SG? Iunno