[Xrd] Zato - General discussion and changes list

[www.keeponrock.in]

Hey guys! We made a Zato skype chat exclusively for players who are planning to play Xrd as him.

 

We discuss about certain topics related to strategies, properties, matchups, questions etc. 

 

Let me know if you would be interested on joining the group. 

 

Sorry, you kind of have to dig this up guys!

[wiredgod]

This would help me quite a bit with practicing this character.  What are the ideal followups to Mawaru high/low mixups?  I'll organize it like this:

 

 

Corner Mawaru:

 

Overhead - j.K > j.K (hits) > j.HS > ?

 

Low - j.K > land > 2P/5K (hits) > ?

 

Overhead - j.K > land > 5D (hits) > ?

 

Midscreen Mawaru:

 

Overhead - j.K > j.K (hits) > j.HS > ?

 

Low - j.K > land > 2P/5K (hits) > ?

[felirx]

Corner Mawaru:

 

Overhead - j.K > j.K (hits) > j.HS > -k- in to 5[d] unblockable

 

Low - j.K > land > 2K/5K (hits) > 2s/5s -k- in to 5[d] unblockable (2P is not low)

 

Overhead - j.K > land > 5D (hits) > if you randomly hit dust in the corner, 5[d] unblockable.

 

If you don't have Eddie meter after -k-, still go for dust but do a damage ender.

 

Midscreen Mawaru:

 

Overhead - j.K > j.K (hits) > j.HS >

-k- dash follow 2p2d unsummon is easy and takes least Eddie meter.

-s- jump j.KHD for easy damage. Extra option to do j.KHD Nobiru j.D with practice.

-k- dash follow 5p5k5s -s- air combo for extended damage option or -k- dash 2p2d unsummon.

There are a ton of other options but these are relatively easy and give you 2d knockdown or air damage ender.

 

Low - j.K > land > 2k/5K (hits) >

2s -k- drill unsummon for easy knockdown.

2s/5s -k- dash 2s5h 22H unsummon for a much harder knockdown. Someone correct me on this one if I'm missing a normal.

[dehumanizer]

If you are completely new to this game or Zato, your first priority of concern should be his neutral game. I feel as though there are three neutral gameplays with Zato.

 

1st. Zato alone with eddie meter

2nd. Zato with eddie summoned

3rd. Zato with no eddie meter

 

Doing combos is important, but learning his neutral game is even more so because it's how you open up the opponent into those combo opportunities. The reason Zato is considered hard is not only because of the negative edging required for some combos, but the amount of different ways you need to play him in order to be effective.

[wiredgod]

 

 

Any followups to the 5D, or do I just let them slide to the ground?

 

 

If you are completely new to this game or Zato, your first priority of concern should be his neutral game. I feel as though there are three neutral gameplays with Zato.

 

1st. Zato alone with eddie meter

2nd. Zato with eddie summoned

3rd. Zato with no eddie meter

 

Doing combos is important, but learning his neutral game is even more so because it's how you open up the opponent into those combo opportunities. The reason Zato is considered hard is not only because of the negative edging required for some combos, but the amount of different ways you need to play him in order to be effective.

 

Agreed, but I think my neutral game at this point is much better than my pressure game.  I'm getting knockdowns fine but screwing up the follow through.  I don't think adjusting what I'm doing here is going to crowd out learning the neutral game.

[xXavierx]

Standard follow up to the 5d wallstick is dash > 6p > -d- as second hit of 6p hits > 2hs > 22s > jump and hover to unblockable. 

 

Here's a link that was posted before that has every combo you'd need. 

 

http://pastebin.com/ms8EYrL9

[InfamousBuddy]

For me my main trouble is understanding what to hold down in some situations. I play on pad and thanks to fame I found a really nice config to help me negative edge. Like I can do basic negative edge strings but when it comes to like the corner unblockables and stuff I just get confused on What I should be holding. lol we should really have some organized place where you can find like all the combos and the unblockables

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bossguy]

If you are completely new to this game or Zato, your first priority of concern should be his neutral game. I feel as though there are three neutral gameplays with Zato.

 

1st. Zato alone with eddie meter

2nd. Zato with eddie summoned

3rd. Zato with no eddie meter

 

Doing combos is important, but learning his neutral game is even more so because it's how you open up the opponent into those combo opportunities. The reason Zato is considered hard is not only because of the negative edging required for some combos, but the amount of different ways you need to play him in order to be effective.

 

I struggle a lot in the neutral. Sols run me over. I just don't know when to keep the shadow out and when to call it back in, combined with hiding the shadow inputs with 22H or 22S.

[wirestyle22]

I struggle a lot in the neutral. Sols run me over. I just don't know when to keep the shadow out and when to call it back in, combined with hiding the shadow inputs with 22H or 22S.

 

Watch this video. 

 

Against Sol you will see Ogawa do: Block string > Drill (Blocked) > 236H Summon > Drill (Eat projectile/Protect Eddie from normals) > RC > Eddie Pressure/Zato Mixup. After you start your pressure/mixup the game is immediately heavily in your favor. You will also notice a lot of the time Ogawa is just putting hitboxes on the screen expecting Sol to come from the air, even if it means he whiffs -S- 3 times in a row, not much can really happen to him. Anytime you play against a momentum heavy character (rushdown), you have to never give up momentum. I honestly look at Ogawa's play a desperate sometimes. He will literally pay any cost to maintain momentum in some matchups and if that happens to him, rest assured it happens to every Zato player. When you're attacking, every matchup is in your favor. I've realized that learning Zato is literally just learning how to minimize the amount of time you spend on defense and maximizing the amount of time you are on offense..

[Bossguy]

Thank you. It's not often you see Ogawa get beaten that badly. :/ So, generally, do you want to be always advancing in the neutral, or waiting for them to jump into your Nobiru? I've been playing almost keep away with Zato, and maybe that's what's getting me killed. Old habits die hard.

[GodPress]

The reward is just an air combo right? What else can you really get out of it? 

 

Little late on this but you can get unblockables out of it if eddie throws them into the corner with SG.

[wirestyle22]

Thank you. It's not often you see Ogawa get beaten that badly. :/ So, generally, do you want to be always advancing in the neutral, or waiting for them to jump into your Nobiru? I've been playing almost keep away with Zato, and maybe that's what's getting me killed. Old habits die hard.

 

I can only really comment on what I've seen from advanced Zato players--mainly Ogawa, but I wouldn't classify Zato without Eddie meter a keep away character necessarily. If you look at the pace of a match in any fighting game both characters are constantly fighting for the advantage and that advantage typically leads to them winning the round. Zato's advantage is both his offense and his strong neutral game, both of which revolve around Eddie. When you don't have Eddie and can't freely summon him, you become a much weaker character. That doesn't mean that you can't get effective damage and mixup with just Zato though, it just won't be as effective and damaging. It sounds like your pressure probably isn't completely concrete and they can escape you.

 

Nobiru is one of the powerful tools in Zato's arsenal. That covers a really big vertical space and is +15 on block, meaning even if they don't do anything and block it your pressure doesn't end. You don't need to wait for them to jump into it, just make them block it. If they get hit then convert, but regardless of what happens outside of whiffing it entirely it's going to be good for you.

[Bossguy]

Yeah, I've been playing him like a character that capitalizes off of mistakes instead of actively trying to rush them down. It's just the style I've been using in the other games I've played and I need to stop it. My main problem with Zato is when to summon and unsommon the shadow, both on pressure and in the neutral. I tend to summon and Nobiru about two or three times, but then recall it to save meter, but I usually die for it. I also have to train myself to always keep my eye on the shadow meter, just like the super and stamina bars.

 

My pressure is decent, I feel. I have my basic strings down, and I can kind of adapt one on the fly. When people try to jump out of my 2K, -p- pressure they usually get hit for it. I just don't know when to unsommon the shadow. More of an execution thing than anything.

[wirestyle22]

Yeah, I've been playing him like a character that capitalizes off of mistakes instead of actively trying to rush them down. It's just the style I've been using in the other games I've played and I need to stop it. My main problem with Zato is when to summon and unsommon the shadow, both on pressure and in the neutral. I tend to summon and Nobiru about two or three times, but then recall it to save meter, but I usually die for it. I also have to train myself to always keep my eye on the shadow meter, just like the super and stamina bars.

 

My pressure is decent, I feel. I have my basic strings down, and I can kind of adapt one on the fly. When people try to jump out of my 2K, -p- pressure they usually get hit for it. I just don't know when to unsommon the shadow. More of an execution thing than anything.

 

The better you get with Zato, the more Eddie will be out doing stuff in neutral. In pressure, you can do a basic string into drill and then 214H (summons to the puddle created by the drill) > -K- > Drill > -S- or Unsummon, you're pretty much in depending on how far away you are from your opponent. Zato covers Eddie and Eddie covers Zato, thats the strength of the character--limited by Eddie meter. Keep in mind you can unsummon Eddie in the same situations you can summon him, so that saves you meter. Usually if you're winning the ground game they will attempt different angles of approach, like the air. 

 

Also, keep in mind netplay isn't really great for Zato. Even 2-3 frames of delay can really screw him up in my experience.

 

I also want to say that you aren't the only one struggling. Just because I understand a portion of what the character is capable of, doesn't mean he's not hard for me to learn. tl;dr I'm not trying to be captain hindsight. I'm having trouble with inputs of course and there is a part of Zato that seems to be based on intuition. He's hard but really good. Hang in there

[Bossguy]

That makes sense. I feel my ground game is better than my air, because I've noticed that most people air dash in and obliterate me, whereas if people try approaching me from the ground, I usually score a knockdown which gives me free pressure. I haven't played enough of Zato to comment on how netplay is bad for him, but since he's such a precision based character I can definitely see it affecting him.

 

Thanks. I was intimidated at first before I started, but now I'm really glad that I'm playing the character that I wanted to main at the start, even if I'm losing 90% of the time. He's such a unique experience, and much more fun to play than the other chars IMO.

[dehumanizer]

Most decent players won't approach you on the ground if you have a drill out. The drill is just that good at keeping opponents at bay. However, the recovery of the drill is what you should worry about. This is when most opponents decide to air dash towards you. You need to know the recovery time of drills to know what to do next.

 

If you know you will recover before they air dash and do a move, interrupt them with a 6p or 2h depending on the angle and height of their jump. Alternatively, if their air move constantly beats 6p or 2h, just jump back or dash back and prepare to put them in a blockstring when they land.

If you know you will not recover before they air dash, you could rc out and do the above.The worst option is to just block the incoming attack and prepared to get rushed down. There will be times when this happens and you just have to know the timing of when you can counter attack or block.

Adapt to them reading your blockstrings and keep them on their toes, especially your drills. If i know an opponent is constantly air dashing after a drill, I'll hover in the air close to the ground more often so they will be scared of approaching in the air due to the threat of a j.K

[Bossguy]

Thank you. This was helpful. I'll try that out.

[president]

 I was aiming to start some threads and get a decent overview of information for new players coming in here. Other people said they were going to do it (several times) so I thought it's not needed, but now we're close to getting patchnews for a new version and we still don't have any actual threads other than a general.

 

I started writing on a megathread tonight including bginner's faq, strategy and combos to hopefully get something started. I welcome everyone with knowledge to participate and provide me with stuff they want added. be it combos, strategies, misc info or you simply disagree with what's already written in there! I'll be writing on this for a while, I could make a complete tutorial out of this eventually. I will post it while it's still a WIP, it's better than having nothing.

[wirestyle22]

Looks good.

[Renly]

Do you guys think Zato will be nerfed with upcoming patch? I'm ready to drop Zato if he's nerfed. I haven't invested any time in training mode, just having fun online.

[Dirty Magic]

Do you guys think Zato will be nerfed with upcoming patch? I'm ready to drop Zato if he's nerfed. I haven't invested any time in training mode, just having fun online.

 

Then why would the nerfs be bad for you? You do not use the character to their potential so it really won't matter, and if you're just looking to tier whore for tournament then pick Elphelt or Faust or Ramlethal.

[Renly]

Then why would the nerfs be bad for you? You do not use the character to their potential so it really won't matter, and if you're just looking to tier whore for tournament then pick Elphelt or Faust or Ramlethal.

Because I'm thinking of being competitive.  I'll decide character after the changes. I think they start next week.

[Ryd']

Just looking at the apparent design philosophy behind Zato compared to previous iterations, he's likely to see some adjustments, though they probably won't be severe nerfs; not enough that should dissuade anyone from playing him, anyway.  I would be surprised if they didn't address this, as the removal of Eddie's overhead points to a desire to make the unblockables more of a situational thing for Zato rather than the "get a knockdown with Eddie available and move on to the next round" feeling he was previously known for.  It could be as simple as removing the wall splat on Shadow Gallery, which would hurt a couple of corner combo options, but it isn't something he really needs.  He's less outright bullshit while still being really solid by virtue of his character design, and a lot of the general bullshit from older games is gone, which helps him out since his defensive options are lacking and he's missing a chunk of his former bullshit as well.  As long as they don't do anything silly like making fly a CH state again, he should be fine.

 

But if all you're interested in is playing a top tier character, you might as well not play for a couple months and wait for them to finalize the update (just looking at the tests isn't enough since they don't always keep the changes).  Or you could pick a character that suits your preferred playstyle roll with it.  Picking the best character in a game doesn't mean crap unless you can make them work for you, and when it comes down to it, Zato's placement is based purely on Ogawa's overall performance - he owns the character, and I haven't seen anyone else handle Zato anywhere near as well in Xrd.  If you aren't on that level, then where he stands in the rankings really doesn't mean anything.

[Renly]

Just looking at the apparent design philosophy behind Zato compared to previous iterations, he's likely to see some adjustments, though they probably won't be severe nerfs; not enough that should dissuade anyone from playing him, anyway.  I would be surprised if they didn't address this, as the removal of Eddie's overhead points to a desire to make the unblockables more of a situational thing for Zato rather than the "get a knockdown with Eddie available and move on to the next round" feeling he was previously known for.  It could be as simple as removing the wall splat on Shadow Gallery, which would hurt a couple of corner combo options, but it isn't something he really needs.  He's less outright bullshit while still being really solid by virtue of his character design, and a lot of the general bullshit from older games is gone, which helps him out since his defensive options are lacking and he's missing a chunk of his former bullshit as well.  As long as they don't do anything silly like making fly a CH state again, he should be fine.

 

But if all you're interested in is playing a top tier character, you might as well not play for a couple months and wait for them to finalize the update (just looking at the tests isn't enough since they don't always keep the changes).  Or you could pick a character that suits your preferred playstyle roll with it.  Picking the best character in a game doesn't mean crap unless you can make them work for you, and when it comes down to it, Zato's placement is based purely on Ogawa's overall performance - he owns the character, and I haven't seen anyone else handle Zato anywhere near as well in Xrd.  If you aren't on that level, then where he stands in the rankings really doesn't mean anything.

 I know Ogawa is the only good Zato and only one in top 50 arcades I believe. That's why I'm scared because I don't see Zato as the best. If he gets nerfed am I going to be able to compete with Zato? Thanks for your input, I'll probably make my decision based on intitial changes because I need to start training soon.

[Dirty Magic]

Being able to compete is all on you, if you use a character as a crutch you already testified you will not go very far by your own merit or skill, but rather a character carrying.

 

Zato will never be bad, so if you think he'll be bottom tier you can relax about that, though your mileage might go farther with an easier character. Top tier is only effective at high level, at low or medium levels the tiers would be very different. If you just want to press buttons and do well, try Faust, Sol, etc.