[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[Blue412]

Thanks, what was the other thing you mentioned? the GH in Blood Kain loop. Is it something different entirely? If so then please tell me the best ways to set it up or when is it best to use? edit: Two more questions- about how many combos do you: 1. Memorize. 2. Take with you into a match. Me I'm thinking 1 or more for ground, 1 air to ground, 1 off throw, one that involves supers. Am I close?

[VR-Raiden]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZup5KL7U7A

at about 3:59

If you can do it (its hard to get that many reps) I think it would be worth doing all the time when you're BK.

Two more questions- about how many combos do you:

1. Memorize.

2. Take with you into a match.

Me I'm thinking 1 or more for ground, 1 air to ground, 1 off throw, one that involves supers. Am I close?

It's gonna be a lot more than that. There's different combos depending on range, combos that use RC, character specific combos (Ragna doesn't have many of these thankfully), combos on counter hit, combos for hitting crouching opponents, the list goes on. You should look through the combo thread and try all of em, most have some application in any match.

[Kain]

Thanks, what was the other thing you mentioned? the GH in Blood Kain loop. Is it something different entirely? If so then please tell me the best ways to set it up or when is it best to use?

It's simply a GH loop, which is possible because it's Blood Kain. If you tried that shit w/o Blood Kain, opponent would just tech out of the first sucessful GH.

Basically, BK GH launches your opponent higher in the air. Of course this also increases the untechable time, letting you do another GH without opponent attempting to tech out. However, you can't easymode through it. Your timing has to be precise for every GH you do, and at some point, you have to break the loop to avoid getting screwed over by proration. (IIRC, 14+ hits. Correct if wrong, please.)

It's possible to do it just using GH alone, but your opponent can block it easy if they're paying attention, which is pretty much what happens in most matches anyway, and he has to be in the corner for that to actually work, so yeah...

As for setups, you'll have to ask other people, I don't mess around with BK GH loop enough.

[Blue412]

Thanks again

[VR-Raiden]

I found an air throw tech trap that actually catches neutral tech. whatever > 5D (DC) > j.A (they neutral tech) > airthrow Haven't tried it in match play yet but it seems really strong, if they mash A to tech it will CH air throw them. If they forward tech, you can JC the j.A straight up and air throw to catch them. If they back tech, you JC the j.A forward to catch them. Yeah it's a bit of a guessing game but it gets a little better in the corner. If you JC the j.A straight up and they're in the corner it will cover both back and forward tech. Though I think most people default to neutral tech because it's least susceptible to stuff like this, but this one actually works vs neutral tech. If they don't tech, you get the purple !! throw. If you catch them neutral teching you get a really low air throw, so you can do something like (tested on Ragna): low airthrow > GH (misses) > 2B > 5C > 5D (DC) > 6A > 5D(1) > GH214D - 4444 dmg As for how practical it is to use in matches, that will take some testing and figuring out when it would be worth going for. edit: I guess this isn't really specific to Ragna though, you can kind of do it off a normal air combo too if you're at the right height. But then, you don't get such a beefy combo if the air throw is too high.

[Yggjrasil]

I think VR should be a Ragna mod too lol. But in all seriousness, Im having a bit of a problem trying to pick up the opponent after 5B.6A,Air Combo RC, then when they hit the ground and before I hit the ground I do j.c, it wiffs sometimes, Ive done it against certain people in matches, and when I do I usually follow up with another 5B, I'm wondering if there's a specific timing for the j.C for the landing and if I do land it and do the 5B after, can I do anything else?

[Nobus3r1]

214 loop? You mean the GH in Blood Kain loop?

Yeah, you'll travel noticeably faster through the air, I think there's slightly more dust that kicks up when you do it. Also it will do 750 dmg instead of 920 for when you're in training, and it bounces em a bit differently

Actually the easiest way I figured out the difference where in practice mode where you can rely on one of two things:

1) Set it to display damage and then get used to the motions that results in 750 damage and the motion that results in 950 damage.

2) Characters (or at least Noel, my default training dummy ) make different sounds when hit by the different versions of GH. Listen for that.

[lars]

5B, 3C, 22C (RC), dash 6C (DC), 5D, 22C - 3831 dmg

Works anywhere on screen, on all characters.

thanks it's now the main i use from a ch hell's fang

hmmmm you mentionned a lot of combos includig a 6d,jd i do not understand the jd part, it is supposed to launch opponent in the air according to the following moves, anywas, it's not a move sending the chars in the air or i probably did miss something..... could someone explain me that????

[VR-Raiden]

Im having a bit of a problem trying to pick up the opponent after 5B.6A,Air Combo RC, then when they hit the ground and before I hit the ground I do j.c, it wiffs sometimes, Ive done it against certain people in matches, and when I do I usually follow up with another 5B, I'm wondering if there's a specific timing for the j.C for the landing and if I do land it and do the 5B after, can I do anything else?

I assume you mean RCing the knockdown kick of ID. I haven't experimented with that kind of combo yet, I don't really see when it would be worth doing.

hmmmm you mentionned a lot of combos includig a 6d,jd i do not understand the jd part, it is supposed to launch opponent in the air according to the following moves, anywas, it's not a move sending the chars in the air or i probably did miss something..... could someone explain me that????

It's just like the standard HF RC combo:

HF (RC) > 6D > j.D > 5B > 3C > 22C

The move you do after 6D is j.D. It looks almost the same as 6D, but really 6D puts you in the air and allows you to cancel to j.D. After the j.D you land and do the rest, they are grounded for the entire combo. Remember you have to dash into 5B or the 3C won't reach.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I found an air throw tech trap that actually catches neutral tech.

whatever > 5D (DC) > j.A (they neutral tech) > airthrow

Haven't tried it in match play yet but it seems really strong, if they mash A to tech it will CH air throw them.

If they forward tech, you can JC the j.A straight up and air throw to catch them.

If they back tech, you JC the j.A forward to catch them.

Yeah it's a bit of a guessing game but it gets a little better in the corner. If you JC the j.A straight up and they're in the corner it will cover both back and forward tech.

Though I think most people default to neutral tech because it's least susceptible to stuff like this, but this one actually works vs neutral tech.

If they don't tech, you get the purple !! throw.

If you catch them neutral teching you get a really low air throw, so you can do something like (tested on Ragna):

low airthrow > GH (misses) > 2B > 5C > 5D (DC) > 6A > 5D(1) > GH214D - 4444 dmg

As for how practical it is to use in matches, that will take some testing and figuring out when it would be worth going for.

edit: I guess this isn't really specific to Ragna though, you can kind of do it off a normal air combo too if you're at the right height. But then, you don't get such a beefy combo if the air throw is too high.

I wonder how well this would work if they just refuse to tech and break the purple throw every time? Sounds like it would work really well on people who were not aware of the trick, though.

[Katsu]

Some combos I came up with.

6D, j.D, j.214B -> 214D

6D, j.D, 5B, 5C, 214A -> 214D

5B, 6A, 5C, 5D, Special -> followup

5B, 3C, 22C -> 5B, 5C, 214A -> 214D

5C, 2C, 3C, 214D

5C, 2C, 3C, 214B -> 214D

(running start) 5C, 2C, 3C, 5D (2 hits) 214A -> 214D

5B, 6A, 6D, j.D, (FJC) j.D, 623D -> 236C -> 214C

6C, (DC) j.B+C, 214B -> 214D

6B, 5C, 6C, (DC) j.C, j.D (FJC) j.C, j.D, 623C -> 236C -> 214C

The last one is my favorite.

[Darkhonor90]

lololololol I wish I could sig that entire post for how retarded it is:vbang:

[Final Ultima]

I'm not one to discount combos just because they're simple, they do work after all, but I'm starting to think the combos should be rated on some kind of damage, practicality and relevance scale. If people writing the combos don't realise the redundancy of some of the combos, then people reading the combos probably won't either.

[Raidhyn]

I agree 100% with what you said Final. It'd be nice to know what combos I need to train on and which to completely ignore.

[Raidhyn]

So I know how it is here on Dustloop about needlessly creating threads but...I think that Ragna's 22C deserves from special attention. I for one am trying to figure out the rules to how it works and some of the BnB combos that are used in conjunction with it. As far as I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong) you can only use 22C if your opponent has been knocked to the ground either with a 2D or 3C. As to combos the only one that i've been able to get consistently is the (near corner) 5B, 2B, 3C, 5D (DC), 6A, 5D, 22C combo. The others are eluding me. How do you use 22C? It seems to be unaffected by proration but again I'm not 100% Anyone care to expand on this?

[Prototype909]

22C isn't effected by protration. Dual MOJZ is a pretty common combo to use 22C in. Two "Normal versions" aka, no extra work involved to get it to hit. CH HF -> 5B -> 3C -> 22C -> 5B -> 623D -> 236C (Fastest) -> 236C (Delayed, usually until Ragna punches the opponent in the upper head) -> 22C (They should land right infront of you, but it's best to do the input as they fall). Or you can just do the same combo, and start it with the 3C and then go into it. Another combo in the corner -> 3C -> 5D -> 6A -> 5D -> 22C

[VR-Raiden]

You are correct about when you can use 22C, it's any time after the opponent touches the ground from 3C or 2D. You can do it off an offensive burst too. In that corner combo you can put in a 5C instead of 2B and it'll do some extra damage, the pushback from 5C doesn't matter cause you're just doing a 5D DC after it anyway. Unfortunately that combo doesn't work on all characters, the 6A > 5D will miss on Rachel. Or if you're already in the corner it tends to miss on Jin, Tao, and Tager too. Though if you're just going into the corner with the DC from 5D it still works on those three. Yeah it will always do it's 800 dmg regardless of how long of a combo you've done. Basically you want to do as much 22C as you can. Getting the ID > 22C combos down is pretty important, though I'll admit I usually don't go for it on the people you have to dash 5A/2A cause I'm not consistent enough with it yet. The main combos you'll be doing that end in 22C that you will probably get in any match: 5B (far hit), 5C, HF RC, 6D, j.D, 5B, 3C, 22C - far hitting 5B combo that goes into 22C. 5B (close hit), 3C, 22C, 5B, ID(D) > immediate 236C>delay 236C, 22C - meter free, lots of damage, ends with 22C. and that corner combo you posted. If you have meter and hit a close hit of 5B, you can RC 22C for some more damage into another 22C, such as: 5B (close hit), 3C, 22C RC, dash 6C DC, 5D, 22C or in that corner combo, RC the last 22C and go into 5D, 22C. All that stuff would work from a 2B or 6B as well.

[VR-Raiden]

Yeah I think it's a good idea too. I'm going through all the ones I've posted and to see which are completely obsolete now, cause some of them definitely are.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

22C works if your opponent falls to the ground and does not tech. 2D and 3C are the most common ways to do this because they cannot be teched. This property carries through combos, so any combo where your opponent suffers a full knockdown is a combo where you can use 22C at some point, provided you are in range for it. As noted earlier, 22C does not prorate, it does a full 800 damage every time it connects. It also induces a stagger state. Whether or not you can combo off of this state depends on the situation (combo length etc), but this is one of the few situations where Ragna has advantage and can press his offense. This is because when you tech out of a stagger, there is a short window where the only action you can take is guarding. Ending combos with 22C is the best way for Ragna to continue offense.

[Luisthepanda]

After some air combos that end with Inferno Divider 214C I sometimes tend to catch people rolling with a j.b as i'm coming down but I dont know what I can follow that up with. Is there a combo I can get from that? Or should I try to catch them with something else?

[VR-Raiden]

You can actually go into a ID from that j.B if it hits, but that's kind of hard to hit confirm. I don't know of anything better than j.B to use for that, I think j.C can work too but j.B hits behind you too so it tends to catch their tech more.

[Raidhyn]

Thanks for the information guys it's much appreciated, I'll definately have to practice some of these combos. One question I also had was about a problem I have sometimes. I have my training dummy set to tech as soon as possible so that I don't end up practicing wrong. Sometimes when I 22C it's easy for me to connect with 5B... afterwards, other times he tech recovers from the stagger state too fast. Is it because I'm messing up the 22C? Do i have to do it faster? Slow? Or am I just not getting the timing for the 5B follow up right?

[VR-Raiden]

If you've got the dummy set to tech out of the stagger, it's going to be the same timing every time for the 5B. You're probably just messing up the timing when it doesn't work. If you hold the button when you 5B it can help, as long as you didn't press it too early.

[Kain]

Some combos I came up with.

6D, j.D, j.214B -> 214D (IIRC, that one is used in a 214A RC combo, so not really new.)

6D, j.D, 5B, 5C, 214A -> 214D

5B, 6A, 5C, 5D, Special -> followup (Not really new either.)

5B, 3C, 22C -> 5B, 5C, 214A -> 214D (Meh, that's a basic way to combo off a 22C. Not really new.)

5C, 2C, 3C, 214D (why would you want to use Dead Spike in a combo when you just listed better ways to combo off 3C?

5C, 2C, 3C, 214B -> 214D

(running start) 5C, 2C, 3C, 5D (2 hits) 214A -> 214D

5B, 6A, 6D, j.D, (FJC) j.D, 623D -> 236C -> 214C

6C, (DC) j.B+C, 214B -> 214D (Purple Throw combo. Nope.)

6B, 5C, 6C, (DC) j.C, j.D (FJC) j.C, j.D, 623C -> 236C -> 214C (I don't understand. Unless 6B>5C pushes your opponent too far away to follow up on the 6C launch, a simple SJ>followup should do the trick, not DC>jump>followup. Even then it looks similiar to what I like to do for aircombos, so yeah.)

With all that said, most of these combos have been come up with already, so calling them 'unusual' is kinda counter-intuitive. And there's a rule against posting Purple Throw combos. Just saying, I'm not trying to be a douchebag or something.

[Final Ultima]

Kain, I appreciate your willingness to put some quality control into the list, but in future please make such posts here instead of in the combo list itself. The "(Post Combos Only)" in the topic title is there for a reason. I'd edited out the purple throw combos, at any rate. By the way, to all those willing to give their input, what are your thoughts regarding how the various combos in the combo list should be rated?