XRD Slayer critique thread.

[fogelstrom]

Nps. Thanks for sharing your matches. I hope more does

[Melo]

 

These are a couple of matches against a Zato I had a while back. My main mistakes were refusing to block meaty drill (I kept trying to bdc SJ) and being a tad too agressive with my jump ins, though my defense was definitely worse. Zato could have protected Eddie a bit better from my 2H and abused fly a bit more to stay out of my reach.

EDIT: Also, don't have any streaming equipment so it's straight from PS4s recording function so pardon the low quality.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Melo

[fogelstrom]

I've played this matchup some but by no means a expert.I'll share my tips and bits. I actually have a love-hate of this matchup since it's quite unfavorable for Slayer but I like having to think much and it's always very fast paced and hectic.

In blockstrings such as 2S/5H, 22H you can blitz the 22H and K Mappa. Just don't do it all the time and eat nobiru summons.
For meaty 22S just use normal backdash instead of BDJC
You missed to see opportunities when he did poor Mawaru summons when you sat and blocked, 2H that or just backdash or BDJC IAD.
2H is SUPER importan in this matchup for neutral for dealing with Eddie.
2P/2K abare for trade and killing shadow meter is worth it, I advise experimenting with it and you'll get a feel for it. Even if you get knocked down having cooldown on shadow meter can turn the tide since we play Slayer and don't have to respect oki all that much outside 22S in the corner.
Random CWH is super legit. Even if you kill Eddie and get cmd grabbed it's not all that awful. It's a good risk reward.
IAD j.D, FL is also a favorite of mine in this matchup. Especially against blockstrings that aren't true blockstrings so you can BDJC IAD j.D.
If they use meaty 22S too close use reversal blitz for reject. You'll soon be able to see if it will reject or not and it's imo one of the best, if not the best, option many times.
2K, c.S, j.D, DHD works on Zato. Imo important to squeeze out dmg and show that UP wiff is dangerous.
In corner 2KPSH works but no air combo. But for 50% meter you can RRC 2H for dmgz and on block you can just confirm block and cancel 2S to IAD or dandy/p mappa
Don't forget you can use 2K, Mappa cancel if you hit Eddie when Mawaru is wiffing due to spacing

Nice usage of DAA. You used it very wisely getting Zato and gaining back momentum.
At 4:13 you should have OTG DoT :D Since you had Hellfire and 50% meter. But nice BDC DoT against 22S. Really nice.
Round start right after 6P CH. You should either go for kPB or kCWH since 6H, Mappa to dropped combo is quite a waste. Happend two times and in this matchup mistakes are quite costly
Gotta work on them FDJC Bite ^^
You did some j.H tagging quite high so you're quite susceptible to getting thrown or even poked out. You should either add j.D or FL in those situations
He barely used Damned Fang in pressure and you should have noticed this and look at his meter since he used scumbag desummon that should have been able to punish with 2K/5k
11:53 you should have gone for UP, 5K or UP, IL. More meter and way better oki that could have forced the burst
12:30 weird combo choice, could have killed ^^
Don't forget to 2K after 22H to kill puddles especially after IB from 2S/5H, 22H
You never used Helter Skelter but maybe you don't like it generally. I tend to like it and abuse it if people can't handle it, why not. Some dmg and good oki or carry if you want to spend the meter

Thanks for posting and hope I said something noteworthy.

[PepperySplash]

At my local I have what I think is a pretty solid Zato to fight so I have a bit of experience in this match. I echo a lot fogelstrom’s comments but I’ll just add in a few of my notes that watching your matches reminded me of:

 

At 2:48 you should always try to pay attention to if the zato screwed up his drill placement from a block string or not. I hold downback whenever he goes to a block string that ends in a drill and if I see the drill start to pop up where it won’t clip me it’s a free 2D most of the time.

 

This is mainly a preference thing but at instances like 3:08 I like to sometimes YRC the move (if it’s a long     recovery like 2H) I killed Eddie with if I’m at an unsafe range (where something like drill could punish me) to keep myself from accidentally getting knocked down and letting Eddie recharge. This also gives the added benefit that after the YRC you can see if he’s doing anything you might be able to punish with 2D/mappa, etc, and if not you can try to press the offensive from it. But once again, it’s a strategy that may or may not fit into your gameplay depending on how you prefer to use your meter in this matchup.

 

Personally I IB rather than BDC against meaty drill because it’s just more consistent and less risky for me.    IBing the drill also gives you a bit of freedom after you block it so that you can usually BDC>whatever anyways.

 

If you’re going to try and escape the corner with IAD 214K, I’d always do it from a super jump if Nobiru is out. At a bit less than peak SJ height Nobiru can’t hit you. Of course you still have to pay attention to how close Eddie is to you when you go to try it because he could still hit you on your way up.

 

Also this zato never did it but wakeup backdash is a very real option for him on your Oki if the player can time it consistently, midscreen  especially. If I think I have a fairly good read on the player I like to use Helter Skelter as timing it correctly leads to their backdash input getting changed to a forward dash. Then they just run right into Helter Skelter and you can confirm into knockdown. If you wanted to go a slightly more conservative route you could always just do a very meaty IL to catch the air recovery frames of the backdash. The only con to this is that you lose out on damage and it’s a little more tricky to get a consistent mixup from it afterwards. If for some reason they are confident enough to backdash in the corner you can check it with 6P and get a full air combo from it.

 

Thank you for sharing and hopefully something I said was useful for you

[Melo]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it.

Yea, I got to work on my CH 6P and CH p pb combos and most combos in general. I hate training mode lol. Usually FDC bite is better but not that day :(. 

I have to use 2k more in general. Thinking about it, I don't tend to use it very much and I was focusing a bit too much on using 2H at the wrong times and getting kd. Killing the puddles is something that completely slipped my mind. It helped out against someone else I played :). I also forget about helter skelter more often than not. I should implement it more since it can catch ppl off guard

ooh, I'll pay more attention to drill placements. Never thought about it.

Doing abare mappa and CWH into YRC is something that I started doing against Zato's to kill Eddie. YRC is still something that I'be been implementing more and more into my game.

I've faced Zato's that like to backdash on oki and yea it can get annoying to deal with. I'll keep that HS trick in mind, seems pretty good.

Thanks for the help guys!

Also, a side note, it bugs me a little that 6k doesn't beat Zato's 2S like it did in +R.

 

[_Sey]

IB'ing Zato's 2S is very important.
IB will let you bdc out of 2S > drill and even bdc IAD to get in, just keep in mind that they could always do 2S > 5HS etc.

5P>2K>f.S(>2S)>special move: Even on IB this string is a true blockstring, so you can end it with 236P (Small Attack) or Nobiru, which is a guessing game in Zato's favor.

Koichi: Isn't 2S>Invite Hell also really strong? You can summon Eddie behind the opponent.
Ogawa: It's strong, but it loses to IAD
Koichi: You can IB the 2S and IAD in but if the drill is blocked then it's Zato's advantage isn't it.
Ogawa: It becomes a guessing game. Summoning from the puddle loses to IAD, but Nobiru beats it. 2S>Invite Hell loses to IB IAD but 2S>Nobiru beats it. Also, 2S>5H is a frame trap. 2S/f.S>5H is very strong, since 5H doesn't have a hurtbox at the tip of the attack.

[Melo]

These are a couple of matches against a May that is really strong. We've played a lot of matches and this is the first time where I was actually able to win several times but I still lost a lot lol. I feel like we are pretty familiar with each other and each time we play I feel more confident but he is still a stronger player than me.

Overall I was pretty pleased with my play but there looking at my matches there were several problem areas

• I dropped a lot of combos, combos that I really shouldn't be dropping as I often as I did. SSSS 5k 2D I seem to drop a lot against May. Is it a weird spacing thing? I went in training mode and doing 2D as 3D instead of 2 or 1 D seemed to help.
• I left damage on the table. I would often hit a raw mappa w/ meter and not RRC. I hit 2H several times w/ no RRC missing out on 200+ damage near the corner. I would also opt for less optimal routes; At one point I hit CH UP in the corner, did IL instead of c.S > air combo. Throw RRC combo should be 5H > j.SHD2k, j.K, dj.SHD2k, j.PD.
• I insisted on using K dandy in neutral leading to getting CH with Horizontal dolphin. That's a bad habit I really need to cut out. I would often use K dandy where P dandy would be appropriate.
• May's floaty jump makes 6H not as good an anti-air as in other match-ups. I need to implement BDC p dandy CWH. This will be one of my priorities moving forward. I need to get this down in muscle memory to bust out instinctively.
• BDC p dandy will complement SS dash through mix-ups as well. SS > slight delay, attack is good as well. I got a CH twice from that but I did not capitalize.
• Needs more 5k and 5p.
• EDIT: I also miss some crucial punishes against 3D and whiffed OHK costing me a couple of rounds.

 

Edited April 9, 2016 by Melo
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[fadooglee]

14 hours ago, Melo said:

These are a couple of matches against a May that is really strong. We've played a lot of matches and this is the first time where I was actually able to win several times but I still lost a lot lol. I feel like we are pretty familiar with each other and each time we play I feel more confident but he is still a stronger player than me.

Overall I was pretty pleased with my play but there looking at my matches there were several problem areas

• I dropped a lot of combos, combos that I really shouldn't be dropping as I often as I did. SSSS 5k 2D I seem to drop a lot against May. Is it a weird spacing thing? I went in training mode and doing 2D as 3D instead of 2 or 1 D seemed to help.
• I left damage on the table. I would often hit a raw mappa w/ meter and not RRC. I hit 2H several times w/ no RRC missing out on 200+ damage near the corner. I would also opt for less optimal routes; At one point I hit CH UP in the corner, did IL instead of c.S > air combo. Throw RRC combo should be 5H > j.SHD2k, j.K, dj.SHD2k, j.PD.
• I insisted on using K dandy in neutral leading to getting CH with Horizontal dolphin. That's a bad habit I really need to cut out. I would often use K dandy where P dandy would be appropriate.
• May's floaty jump makes 6H not as good an anti-air as in other match-ups. I need to implement BDC p dandy CWH. This will be one of my priorities moving forward. I need to get this down in muscle memory to bust out instinctively.
• BDC p dandy will complement SS dash through mix-ups as well. SS > slight delay, attack is good as well. I got a CH twice from that but I did not capitalize.
• Needs more 5k and 5p.
• EDIT: I also miss some crucial punishes against 3D and whiffed OHK costing me a couple of rounds.

 

I'd thought I should put in my input since I playe Wafflepies a lot myself, and I find it pretty frustrating playing him (her?) as well. K-Dandy during neutral is a very risky thing to do, and I've noticed that you pull it out whenever there's a situation where it's like, "well why not?" Sure it may help you get in at times when she's not doing something, but overall, May can easily interrupt K-Dandy with dolphins/balloons/etc. before you can do anything (considering the fact that there's a certain amount of frames of K-Dandy that you have to commit to prior to doing Pile/UP/CWH. Your use of K-Dandy to escape pressure is good, but using it during  neutral sometimes can really hurt you (I personally refrain from using K-Dandy step during neutral as much as I can because it's too much of a gamble for me). c.5S > f.5S as a block string, from my experience, is bad once they catch on to it. There were times where Wafflepies just got out or pressed buttons to interrupt your tick-bite (i.e. Video 2 @8:26). Instead of automatically going from c.5S > f.5S, try doing:

- c.5S > 6HS: If he blocks the 6HS while crouching, you're + on block so you can continue pressure

- c.5S > P-Dandy > UP: Good way to get in UP for high/low etc.

- Instead of pressing c.5S, instead do 2P > 5K, etc. I even feel ballsey sometimes and go for 2P > 6HS haha. 

 

I've played you before, and I find your mixups fine, but I feel there are moments you don't enough confidence to go for riskier things, which are super rewarding if you pull it off. Working on your movement can help as well, and I'm sure everyone will just say to watch Hase to improve your movement and especially your neutral game. I love your use of 6HS > P-Pile during a blockstring; I do that a lot lol a lot of people tend to want to press a button after 6HS for some reason.

[daymendou]

SSSS 5K 2D will drop a lot on May, I-No, and possibly Ramlethal. I have resorted to using SS 5K 2D against them, unless I did crossup Dash cS, since blocked 2D is still very negative after SSSS 5K.

I would not focus too hard on P CWH as anti air because it's relatively easy to bait and CH j.S can lead to 150+ damage. If May hasn't set up, I would go for air IB > Throw and sometimes 2S. If you are confident in your spacing, air-to-air jK can be decent.

If you get an anti-air 5P, I recommend doing 5P > jPK > djSHD2K > jD(2K > jPD). It's a very stable route and does a decent ~140 damage. You can also add several 5P or jP at the beginning without breaking the j2K > jD.

[Melo]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Remembering to go S something else is a hard habit to break lol. It has paid off though so I will keep working on it.

Antiair combos are my bane. Especially since I always try to buffer 6HS, I should default to the nonCH 5p combos instead.