Zeero

http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/01/#gl As low as a character who flies across the screen with her drive and lower than a character who attacks you from a screen away with bugs/swords. Thats how good Carl is. not to mention: http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/05#negativepenalty Carl can only be as defensive as the fastest characters in the game with his slow hop and crappy airdash/jump in attacks, else he gets negative penalty. and just for the heck of it: http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/05#counterassault The 2nd slowest counter in the game, just behind the slowest character in the game. From my experience, the only way to win consistently with Carl is to get that throw loop down REALLY well, else you've been at a disadvantage since you picked him. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "Nirvana is counted as projectile type". I think i've hit tager out of his 236B which blocks projectile before. Nirvana blocks projectiles if thats what you mean. Another con is Nirvana doesn't block physical hits, she takes them along with Carl.

In the end, i still don't know if the 6hs DA loop is the day breaker's bell loop.

My comments on above list... kind of pessimistic though.

its day breakers bell loop Only raoh loop i can think of is the 6HS DA loop, but it does sound awesome regardless. That should be its new name

I guess there is miscounted beats then. Thats news to me. squirrel: i dont think first post is up to date... Kyle: Good finds. I dunno how i'll be able to pull it off by delaying the throw that much but i'll keep those in mind edit: i actually just recalled one time i defensive bursted someone into nirvana's 4D and i followed up with a combo and it didnt kill, so likely the chip dmg killed u.

Keep in mind that those were tips for escaping the loop and not pulling it off But anyway, I'm not sure what you're asking, but it seems like you want to airdash back in after they tech, get hit by the clap and then regrab to start your reset?? I haven't really tried that nor seen it anywhere but my guess is that it would work since their hitbox is so huge... Only on tager though, for other casts, if you throw above the clap, its fairly easy to airdash out if they know what they're doing... Reality is, anything works on tager Kyle: you can also get V-13 with throw->clap->repeat if you superjump the throw. Not sure why you need the superjump, probably because you float more instead of dropping?, but I can only pull it off if i super jump Not too sure what you mean by Under the orb and in the orb though...

i just make posts from what i know and think, its not like just because i stop playing GG as often as i did i forget everything about my character.

A little (well not really) post about what I THINK about Carl and what to pay attention to when EATING THE LOOP AND HOW TO GET OUT that i wrote on my local thread because people are saying i'm a cheap bastard 1. Where you & Nirvana's clap is: Basically when Carl throws and Nirvana's clap is UNDER you, a simple tech + airdash will escape. If nirvana is pretty far back and only the edge of the clap may hit you, you can try to tech and airdash (unless CARL is in the corner, because when Carl throws and hes in the corner, YOU get pushed back away from corner.) Good carl player's wont make these mistakes tho. And always don't eat weak resets with air recoveries from my combos. 2. Height when Carl airthrows you: The higher Carl is, the harder it is to do the loop. Basically its supposed to work like this. When i throw you, you should be at nirvana's height, so that when i airdash, i push you towards nirvana. If nirvana isn't there, i will more than likely airdash UNDER you, failing my loop. Also, if the throw is high, then it takes more time for Carl to land and then he can't do 2C to relaunch. Same logic applies to resets. Higher Carl is, harder it is for him to reset coz it takes more time for him to land, dash, then 2C. If i'm too low and your hitbox is big, you might even end up getting the ground throw-break animation (i've done it more than enough times lol). Resets would also be harder if you have a big hitbox because u'll hit the ground faster. 3. Nirvana's life bar & your life bar: I'm not sure exactly how it works, but i think if you continuously use nirvana, moves actually cost more and more to use. So if nirvana is at low life, and you're at high life, dont even bother teching. Like that buppa vs dio match (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPJJZ4qzu4I @ 1:23), theres no way he would have died from the loop with that much nirvana life, yet he teched, ate a reset, THEN died. 4. When to throw-break/burst: If you're gonna burst, do it when you see me start my 2C, thats probably the only safe time to burst. As for throw breaking, sometimes you just gotta take a chance. The corner throw loop seems pretty impossible to escape as i did it last friday, like 30+ hits on arakune lol. But again, if its impossible to escape anyway, might as well just try it and pray i screw up. Its easier to screw up a reset than a relaunch. Also imo, if you're gonna throw break, do it on the first throw of the 2throw sets. This is because if you do it on the 1st throw break, theres a chance that i didnt expect it and then end up airdashing. Or i mistime the dash and end up air dashing. Throw breaking on 2nd throw will ALWAYS let me ground dash because my airdash count is gone and its pretty easy to time (basically my dash gets buffered). 5. Who you are using: certain characters are harder to loop/reset on because of their hitbox/falling properties. Rachel, Ragna, Haku are known characters to escape the loop. I find taokaka harder to loop because she drops pretty quickly. Just my opinion.

easiest way to settle this is to try those "tendency to black beat often" combos in training mode with recovery set to back and see if it still happens. I've never seen a black beat combos in training mode which is what makes me believe my statement.

calm down? i said imo for a reason? and since, ur 1frame arguement is not valid because FRCs are done when you KNOW its coming. Its not like you do those stuff mentioned on reaction off a random moment. You know u're doing the jam 2d, you know u want to double butterfly, you know you want to do the glitch. Do you know when a 1f opportunity to tech is coming? thats saying you have to predict it coming, and teching in that 1f based on your prediction, i dunno about u, but i think recovering is either mashing during the combo in which case u'll never get that 1f tech, or waiting to see openings in which u won't react and see a 1f tech opportunity. Unless you're implying that bridget players do yoyo glitch on reaction when they see the yoyo hit, and so. Anyhow, im not here to argue, i'm just offering my opinion, no need to get all worked up.

imo they're not miscounted just that the tech frame was probably really short (like 1 frame) or something and nobody asides from CPU can get that exact timing.

risky stuff to do for no dmg, unless you plan to FRC air combo into it... I doubt u'll get the CH so u'll just be doing little damage for big risk and possibly screwed up FRC using 50% tension.

except that was a black beat. kinda useless imo, when a 3c can lead to a throw loop lol.

gl pulling it off in a match though, thats my honest input. I can do the combo relatively simply in training mode, but the situation never comes to do it in an actual match. Which is why i prefer that extra 20-30 damage (is it really that little?). And sword's oki game isnt exactly spectacular... i'd rather keep them in the air after an aircombo

if anything 5P seems to reach further. But regardless, naked jumps/IADs are suicide. Unless you're IADing gunflame/drill on reaction, then you can do jp js jd land 66 summon if you're low enough i think

Basically any character with good mobility and reach rocks carl pretty bad because his mobility isnt that good. Actually, is it possible to escape the throw loop with bang install? ie; tech and dash 7/9? I dont remember if Dora ate a throw loop while bang installed in those vids or not...

solution is to not throw-break, recover, and just eat the combo like a man and hope Carl will screw up

you being the only one that answered my question scares me

I think you can block the minute u recover from throw break animation? And i dont know... even on no throw break i dont think he'll be close enough to get hit by the gear since it pushes them away before the throw lands, if you're talking about just followup combo with Carl, i doubt you've recovered and can reach by then. While 236A has 1~8F of invincibility, the whole move is 32F... 24 frames to get raped, and the distance isnt far enough for someone to fail to react to it usually. 236B is 1~18F head invincibile, 39F duration. 11F to get raped if you use it improperly. It is a good anti air dodge, but i think most people try to run away from carl and just chip (well... chunk) life off him with zoning games and quick combos because going up to carl and making a punishable mistake usually means gg if the carl at least knows what hes doing.

well if they know better, they wouldnt bother throw breaking knowing that it wont kill them if they didnt =P I'm pretty sure bursts dont kill people, i've gotten people to pixel life from a defensive burst n throw... Kinda lucky coz i did 4ABCD n when the burst hit, nirvana actually do 4D and knocked him back to be, then i did 5B jB dj throw and he lived. The person who didn't know better didnt understand why he was still alive and asked me if Carl really is that shitty coz he cant even do pixel damage. My reply was yes Zoog got me wondering, how many of us actually play the game on a regular basis asides from me here? edit: Seeing this vid made me happy (the part with DIO raping Kaqn) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XthqaHqBITk

i thought all bursts dont kill? they actually kill on defensive burst?

i think the best way to start the loop is through 3C iad J2C allecan jump airthrow+8]D[ 1. less proration than 3C 2B2C 2. 2B2C doesnt connect if your combo is more than 8 hits or so 3. because you dont use 2C to start the combo, you can do the airthrow loop one more time if you're perfect at it (4 2C's in a combo = techable i believe) Also another thing i found that works is if you do your standard combo on someone in the corner, throwloop is guaranteed. ie 2a 5b 6b 623C (22D then hold D+6) (5B) airthrow + 8D If they tech, they get hit by the 8D then you can follow up with 5C jB jC 8D and so on. If they don't, airdash throw 8D fun.

Thats like saying Ino isnt low tier because koichi rapes with her. If everybody can be like DIO then carl is top tier. Also like saying how arakune is low tier because i lose with him

i cried

So someone told me that SBO is thinking whether they should BAN CARL"S THROW TRAP because some players are whining about it. Now to me, thats just saying "Carl is not allowed to win" because even with the throw trap, carl loses more than winning. Without that, i honestly cant think of 1 other thing that gives him a fighting chance (miracles don't count). Might as well ban arakune's D button or something lol. Just had to express my anger somewhere. Horrible.