Ultima

Since someone already dredged up this thread, I don't feel bad for posting in it. Nevermind that Suzaku already won the thread at post #145. There are some things I wanted to address: re: anime fighter It is very true that Street Fighter series (and most JPN fighters) are essentially "anime fighters". And as has been pointed out, this is not actually a problem. The reason they're not seen as "anime fighters" using the modern definition of the term (more on that later) is because of which anime the older games are based on. SF2 is mashup of Jojo's BIzarre Adventure and Hokuto no Ken ripoffs - i.e. it's an 80s/early 90s "anime game", for lack of a better term. It's not so much about how the games play, but the character design. These games - or to be more specific, these character designs - are more acceptable to western tastes. Modern "anime fighters", though, borrow their designs from more modern anime, which simply doesn't generally appeal to western tastes like their 80s and 90s predecessors. Hence why their get their bad rap for being only for weeabos - since it's considered that most modern anime is only like by weeaboos, then fighting games that use similar designs as modern anime will also likely only appeal to weeaboos. Note that I'm not saying whether this association is fair. Just that the associate exists The fact that many of them use the same gameplay mechanics (read: "airdashers") is not a relevant IMO. After all, from a mechanic stand point, Marvel games are also "anime fighters", but they get a pass because they have Hulk and Sentinel and Magneto fucking things up instead of kawaii moe little girls. See also: The difference between "comics" and "manga", LOL. Interestingly, I think GUilty Gear, at least at one point, did not really get classified as "anime fighter", at least not in the pejorative sense. I think that's because GG is considered the prototype anime fighter (which actually isn't true - Dark Stalkers is the first real "anime fighter") and is as much a parody of anime as it portrays it. It's also fucking metal. I suppose it's more guilt by association since all the "anime fighters" that came out after GG seemed to ripoff GG much more than any other game/series, which is unfortunate. I myself, an OG Street Fighter fan fundamentally, love GG (but only from XX onwards - I played GG and GGX and didn't like either one; XX was the first one that clicked with me) but generally can't stand any other "anime fighter". I don't particularly like BB (except for Hakumen), I don't care enough about Persona to get into a fighting game with those characters, and I seriously dislike Arcana Heart and Melty Blood. Mostly it's a character design thing, though I also find them to be boring and repetitive. Oh, and if there's one thing I HATE about "anime fighters", and what truly separates them from GG for me, is the fact that, too often, the characters won't shut up. They're always saying something, and the endless chatter annoys the fuck out of me. Before BB came out, I really wanted to play with Bang, but all it took was one Youtube vid of him in action for me to go "Nope, I'm not playing this". Fucker just wouldn't shut up. Persona 4 is the same way. It's aurally offensive to me. re: First post It hasn't been mentioned in this thread as far as I can tell, so I'd just like to point something out: The "dilemma" pointed out in the first post is not new. For lack of a better term, the majority of people have always enjoyed fighting games "for the wrong reasons". It may not have been quite the same "wrong reasons" as mentioned here - i.e. more people interesting in watching streams of games than playing them - but the phenomenon of players only playing and enjoying a game at a superficial level and not bothering to go further? Yeah, that's been there since Day 1 of fighters. Think about it. Back in the early days of SF2, how many players really cared about competition? Very few. Very few players - usually but not always the best players in a particular spot - would actively go searching for more/better competition elsewhere. How many players do you think used to visit arcades in a different part of town, or in a different town, or a different state, or *gasp* a different country? Only the most hardcore of players did this. Hell, after SF2 dropped for SNES, how many still actively went to the arcades? SUre, many used the console port as practice for the arcade, but even at the height of Sf2's popularity and arcades still being relevant, I'm pretty sure they were in the minority. And even if they weren't, the number of players that went past their regular spots was still tiny compared to the player base at large. It is no different now. It's just more pronounced because, for the first time, we have a class of people who apparently would rather watch fighters than play them, in addition to a large pool of people who play the games at a casual/superficial level. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, it's a good thing! It means that interest in fighting games is growing, which is good news for fans of fighting games. More people interested in the games will naturally lead to more people playing, which in term will lead to more people playing "seriously" and enjoying the game "for the right reasons". In that regard, I don't think there's much you can do to a) help people who are not interested in your game at all become interested, or b) help people who are only casually interested to become more serious. The latter is who will benefit from tutorials, videos, etc., but in my experience, most of the players who seek out such information are the type who would do so even without help. This isn't to say that things should not be done - on the contrary, I believe the more help and information given to beginners, the better (and really, it needs to be in-game first and foremost - do I need to bring up Virtua Fighter 4: Evo's training mode or is that a meme now?) - but one has to realise that that's no guarantee your game's scene will automatically blow up. Actually, I think the best opportunity to grow a scene is to have a proper new game to rally around. It can't be an update of an old game, it has to be something new (even if it recycles/borrows old stuff - see also: SFIV). That new game can't just be crapped out by the developers though - aside from being good (which always helpe), it needs sufficient hype and mainstream advertising. Namco and Midway/Netherrealms have always excelled in these areas. Capcom can excel when they put their mind to it, which actually isn't often. SNK and ARC (outside of Japan?) seemingly don't bother. But luck and timing are also a factor, especially now that the fighting scene is hella crowded. I think the first good fighting game on next gen systems will have a huge advantage, but I could be wrong. Finally: This is complete and utter horseshit. I would go at length into why it's horseshit, but this post is already really long and it's late here. Will post later if anyone cares (which I doubt).

I agree 100%. I'm not just excited about Xrd -I'm excited about who else might use this technique. I want a new Street Fighter game that looks like this (that uses SF3 sprites as a model). I want a new Samurai Shodown game that looks like this (that can reuse SS3's artwork as a base if they don't feel like doing anything new). Hell, even though it already looks spectacular, imagine another Dragon's Crown game in this style! Some people were excited about King of Fighters XII(I)'s artwork. I was not. Even before I learned it took 16 months to create a character and that artwork isn't actually HD resolution, I knew that art style was a dead end. Sure, the end result looks good, but you have to be insane to expect other companies to follow suit. It's just not economically feasible. But Xrd's style? Assuming it doesn't take too much more work than a regular 3D model, this method is worth copying. This has the potential to have the advantages of both 2D and 3D - We should wait to see if alternate costumes are as easy to implement in this style as with regular 3D models before we get a confirmation on that. But if alternate costumes are no more difficult in this style than regular 3D, I'd say that's GAME OVER YEAH for 2D sprites. Outside of developer skill, there would be no reason to actually use them again.

I would like Potemkin's redesign more if a) I could see his face and b) it didn't have those godawful shoes. re: final cast I'm pretty sure we'll at least get everyone back from XX eventually. It may not be in the first iteration, but in future versions? Definitely. Post-XX though, I wouldn't bet on. But I could be wrong.

Sol's air qcb+K - is this a new move? Or might it be something from EX Sol or GG Sol that I've forgotten about?

I wouldn't worry about comparisons to KoFXII per se. KoFXII was SNK biting off waaaaay more than it could chew since, as evidenced by XIII, they really need another 16 months to get the game closer to what they wanted. Arc seems to pace themselves a lot better. It also helps that their games don't usually have 35+ characters. That said, Xrd will no doubt be much like BlazBlue's character progression: Start off with a small cast, then build on it over multiple iterations. Well okay, that's every fighting game ever, but I think BB is the most appropriate comparison since BB is the only modern popular fighter that started off with a really small cast, although that could also be because it was a new IP. Hopefully we'll at least get XX's cast back - I don't think we need Order Sol or Robo-Ky back yet, though I'd be surprised if they didn't return eventually. Dunno about A.B.A. Concerning the scale back to XX#R, I have no problem with the removal of Force Breaks, Throw Breaks, Slash Backs, etc. However, I doubt that FRCs are gone - they were in XX and XX#R, so why would they remove them? If they want to make it easier to get into, they can loosen up their timing. That seems like a huge step back to me compared to the others, but I guess we need to see how the new YRCs work first. I really wanna find out more about their new graphics process. If it's decently efficient, I want Capcom and SNK to steal it so I can get games from them that look like Xrd.

AntiZig: I looked through that place, but couldn't find much of anything. And as tsukihimeblood pointed out, I wanted to know what the names of the normal attacks were, if there are any. Witness this R.Mika page on SRK's wiki. It has the official move name (taken from All About Zero 3, if I'm not mistaken) for every single normal attack. I wanted to know if GG has anything equivalent. But I suspect the answer is "no".

I have read his FAQs. Most FAQs, even when they list every normal attack in detail, seldom list the actual official name of the attack even when there is one and is it's known, so EChang's FAQs not having them is an indication of nothing. But if you say "no", then oh well. I had a feeling that was the case. Thanks anyway.

I have a possibly stupid query: You know how for their fighters, Capcom makes official names for every attack? Like how Ryu's c.HP = Tsukiage Upper? Well, I was wondering if Arc System Works does that for the GG games. Specifically, I want to know what are the names of Sol's throws and normal attacks and special normals, if there are any. Thanks in advance to anyone who answers. Also, I apologise in advance if this has been asked before.