Skankin Garbage

Because you are unable to move or block when your Dark Force wears off. If your opponent is ready to strike you when that happens they will get a free combo. Manual decativation allows you to be unpredictable about it, and it allows you to deactivate when you think you're safe.

Skankin Garbage I haven't really started playing online yet, but it will happen soon.

Talbain has no particularly effective GC baits (other than to simply not-attack). So, against characters like Rapter or Jedah, it's not always a smart move to do a meaty. This is probably even more true against Rapter, whose ES GC is an easy setup for his unblockable.

Using google translate, I think I can get a little bit of it. Bear in mind, I am trying to extrapolate meaning out of google-translated Japanese, so things I write may not be completely accurate! - The first part just explains what frames of ES GCs we'll drop our block on. So, you look at the character, and the frames listed, if I understand correctly, are frames where we'll drop our proximity guard. It also means that those ES GCs aren't truly unblockable; just that certain frames can't be blocked. It's possible that if you are already blocking by that frame, it won't matter, but I don't know for sure. - Second, says that BB Hood's Cheer and Fire (Molotov Cocktail anti-air) has unblockable frames in the middle of the duration, also. Which frame depends on the strength of punch that you use. There is some additional info under it, and I'm pretty sure what it's saying is that you can block it just fine if you are hit by the first active frame of the attack, since the unblockable frames all happen a little after the first active frame. - The third table is a list of which situations Anakaris's Pharaoh EX attacks are unblockable on each character. In each column is a series of three "x" or "o", one for if the character is in mid-air, "tilt" (which I am guessing is crouching?), and standing. If there's an "o" in the column, that means that it's unblockable for that character. An "x" ...well, it either means two things: 1. A block is possible, but that the character won't block it properly from certain ranges (kind of like with Bishamon's ES Spirit). or, 2. The move will always whiff against a character in this situation. To give an example, it says that Morrigan is "x x o", meaning that she can't block it in any circumstance from a standing position, but can potentially block it in midair or while crouching (OR, it means that the attack will never hit her in those situations. I'm really not sure - someone get in the lab!) There is one last translated sentence that I can't make heads or tails of: "If the overlap was completely restored Okiagari etc., from the state can be invincible guard." I'm...guessing, that means that you can always block it if it's meaty? - The fourth table is a similar table for Anakaris's jump kicks. However, in this case, "o" means unblockable, "x" means ALWAYS blockable, and "-" means that proximity blocking won't trigger at certain ranges (or that it always whiffs in this situation). It also appears to say that the range varies wildly from character to character. It likewise appears to say that you can always block it if it's a meaty. - The fifth table explains Rapter's J.Lk unblockable. It details which frame(s) are unblockable when doing it from a normal jump compared to an air dash. There's also a little blurb at the end about Talbain that I don't understand: "(They shake sky for tries against the state Standing only (Talbain) tall lower walk behind the guard can be solved. Therefore, when applied to the (Talbain). That I should not and does not overlap etc. Okiagari)" - Sixth table refers to Talbain's unblockable ES Beast Cannon. That unblockable has been pretty well-documented in English, so I won't bother going into detail. - Seventh, eighth, and ninth tables refer to Bishamon's ES Spirit unblockable, his Air ES Spirit Unblockable, and his EX Enma Seki unblockable. There's a table of who can and can't block the attacks, and under which circumstances. It's worth noting that some characters can always block these attacks. Some people aren't aware of this - even some very good players in the community. The final part deals with bugs. The first bug is something about Anakaris's EX Pharaoh attacks causing invincibility...not sure whether it makes him or the opponent invincible, lol. The second bug is the one we've been trying to figure out right now, with Anakaris being able to make his own ground attacks air-blockable. It looks like it says something about a medium attack in the second sentence (maybe MK Drill?), and something at the end about Cobra Blow and Hard Kick. The final bug refers to Rapter's full guard in the air. EDIT: Another thing worth noting is that this doesn't appear to be a complete list of bugs. There's no mention of Felicia's full-guard, Talbain's Dark Force unblockable gimmick, or Jedah's ability to fly clear off the screen.

Ahh, well that's a different matter entirely. I was gonna say! There is a particular hitbox of Million Flicker that is insanely powerful AA. The only reason it's not good to AA with it is because of how hard it is to get that hitbox when you need it. Oh well.

By static hitboxes, do you mean like, you can make one particular hitbox from his Million Flicker stay in place the whole time? Cos if so, that's far from useless.

VSAV2 changes from VSAV. FYI Characters and moves have different hitboxes. Any sort of air chains have been removed, including dash links. Moves that cross up have had their hitboxes altered so that they don't cross up. Some characters have new moves (either GC-only moves that became specials, or moves that weren't in VSav like Morrigan's drill). Some moves have had their properties altered for utility or for the purpose of removing unblockables. For example, Lilith's S.Hk is now an overhead. Or, BB Hood's J.Hk has a much shorter window from the startup to the landmine exploding, which effectively removes her unblockable setup. Dark Forces now turn all damage into red damage, and IIRC the same thing is true for you (i.e any attacks you take in Dark Force will be all red damage). Dark Force can be activated while moving - there's no startup or cooldown freeze anymore (similar to characters in VSav who had flying DFs). Old Dark Forces are now command EX moves. And, that's all I remember from my personal observations.

I'll update this as I go, but I'm workin' on it for now. Log: 11/27: Started outline. Finished most of the Basics and Normals Section. 12/2: Added more stuff to the basics section, including some info compiled by Lion's Eye. OUTLINE, as standardized by Kyle Wattula, with my own additions in bold parenthetic statements: 1 – Basics (I've added some information here that I've deemed more relevant, since the application of punishes, AAs, and pokes in VS can be surprisingly advanced stuff. Regardless, I've tried to include any information required by the standard outline.) Punish Anti- Air Pokes chasing ground rolls (I am expanding this to wakeup-games/okizeme in general, since it's not covered anywhere in the outline, and "chasing ground rolls" is absurdly specific.) Air-Game 2 - Normals- explain the most used application for each. 3 - Specials- only explain the intricacies (If there are any). WHat's good for building meter, what's got invinc. etc. 4 - Supers- Same as "9" 5- Mix-ups 6 - Combo's 7 - Frame traps & Tick throws 1. Basics. [Accompanying Video: Talbain doing some trick shit with his walk. Ambiguous sides on opponent wakeup; tick throw; walking under fireballs.] - Movement is important as Talbain; his walk-speed is the fastest in the entire game, and he can walk under fireballs. Get accustomed to using this to your advantage. [Accompanying Video: Talbain doing sweet jump-in stuff. Full combo; Cross-up Moment Slice; Air BC Feint; Empty-Jump Throw.] - Talbain's jump is powerful. It has a very fast trajectory and can be difficult to react to. On top of that, his jumping normals have big hitboxes and can be daunting to deal with for novices. For that reason, take special care not to lean on this strength as a crutch! Better players will manhandle you for jumping with impunity. [Accompanying Video: Talbain getting his out of some normals. Then, some footage of Talbain playing smart footsies after a reset.] - Talbain's normals can be easy to trade with if you aren't at the right ranges. Thus, when you're poking/chaining, make sure you're starting with the appropriate normal. Use them in this order, from closest range to farthest: C.Lk, C.Lp, C.Mk, C.Mp. In other words, if you're in range to start with C.Lk, you should always do it. Adhering to this principle will minimize your risks. [Accompanying Video: Talbain getting aced for trying to AA with Climb Razor. Then, Talbain showcasing the proper way to AA in various situations. Beating a jump-in with C.Hp; Beating a close Dash/IAD with S.Lp; Beating a low-fly with C.Mp; beating an odd angle with S.Mk or C.Mk.] - Talbain doesn't have consistent anti-air. Climb Razor is not-good as anti-air; it's very easy to be hit out of, and it has no invulnerable frames. Talbain's anti-airs depend on where his opponent is coming from. From point blank or high above, use S.Lp or C.Hp. For opponents dashing towards you, lower to the ground, use C.Mp. Anything between is a job for S.Mk and C.Mk. And, remember; sometimes, it's best just to use a Push Block. - Talbain can chase rolls in either direction with a dash. His walk speed is also quick enough that he can keep good pressure on anyone rolling away, and simply rolling towards him in most situations can be converted into an ambiguous blocking situation for his opponent. - As far as wakeup games go, Talbain has a few basic options. If you expect a Guard Cancel or just want to be safe, your best options are to either wait, or do a meaty C.Lp from max range. For Push Block-happy opponents, using meaty S.Hp is handy (or C.Hp on Q-Bee) to alter the timing and force them to pay attention. If you know you can predict an opponent's reaction, your riskier and more rewarding options are to do a combo straight into Moment Slice; or use your dash to start condition an opponent to react to your high/low approach. 2. Normals [Accompanying Video: Talbain doing some combos starting with C.Lp. Talbain comboing C.Mk xx Beast Cannon. Some block string that has Talbain canceling C.Lp and C.Mk into Quick Move.] - There isn't a single normal of Talbain's that doesn't have some use; so, I'll try and go over the basics. C.Lp and C.Mk are your most important normals. C.Lp is a low with very long range that can start most of his chain combos. C.Mk is fast and long-ranged. It's also an excellent candidate for comboing into his Beast Cannon. Both of them can be canceled into Talbain's movement special, Quick Move, to move forward while maintaining pressure. [Accompanying Video: Talbain doing some stuff with C.Mk. Talbain landing a full combo off J.Hp. Talbain landing a cross-up J.Lp combo. Talbain guard-breaking with J.Mp -> J.Mk -> J.Hp -> J.Hk \/ S.Lp.] - Talbain has plenty of options in the air. C.Mk is an all-purpose defensive move, while also being a good way to build meter. J.Hp makes a powerful vanilla jump-in, while J.Lk is useful as a crossup. For meeting opponents mid-air, start with J.Mp and move up the chain to J.Hp. (more to come)

I'm not seeing why Lp is a better tick than Lk...at least, if we're talking specifically about frame data. D.Lk gives you a much bigger frame advantage. Unless there's a reason you'd want less time to complete the motion? Otherwise, I'd still D.Lp is likely the better choice, but it's because D.Lk (and especially close D.Lk) have a tendency to whiff some crouching characters that D.Lp won't whiff against.

Here's another Morrigan v Talbain match for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWcVMw8zlAQ That's a good idea, and I think having a central place where you can look for matchups to reference will help you big-time.

It's probably just a physical hiccup. It's gonna feel different when you do it on the right side compared to the left side. When you learn combos, you have to internalize what it feels like to do it from both ends of the field. But, to try and troubleshoot, the single most common problem that messes up DI/LI combos is simultaneous input. If the game registers any of the inputs at the same time, neither of them count, and you'll have to start over.

I don't know how necessary it was for me to do this...but, if anyone's interested, I cleaned up the English a bit. If anyone is having trouble reading this for any reason, I can post a slightly re-written version.

...Oh. And, for the sake of completion, you missed Talbain's more common unblockable. ES BC can be made unblockable in certain situations because blocking certain parts of it appears to cause his opponents to drop their proximity blocking entirely. This is why sometimes, opponents will get "crossed up" by 6 9 2, and that's also why sometimes in the corner, opponents will magically fail to block 6 9 2 6 (or really, just 2 6/9). More experienced players tend to throw in jabs/DPs at these key points, or they know the holes in the block string where they can safely jump backwards and chicken guard.

It takes one frame to switch from a crouching to a standing block. So, if you attack with a high and a low within a certain time frame of each other, the second attack will be unblockable. B.B Hood's unblockable is the most popular example of this effect. B.B Hood's J.Hk is a mid (can be blocked high or low) and is also a projectile. This is important, because the projectile doesn't disappear when she lands; this allows her to land and do a new attack while the J.Hk projectile is still out. If the opponent blocks it standing, which they usually will, she can land and attack with a low that will hit at the same time they are blocking her J.Hk projectile, which has them pinned in a standing position. Thus, B.B Hood gets an unblockable low (and technically, an unblockable high attack against tall characters, AND a high/low mixup off a jump, since the unblockable gives her opponents incentives to crouch-block a jumping attack, which is really, really weird). Hsien-Ko can accomplish the same thing with her projectile if the opponent blocks high (she can attempt to trick opponents into standing with a dash feint). Lilith and Morrigan can do the same thing with their ES Fireballs, too, although it's rather impractical.

In spite of landing a pursuit being less-than-optimal, whiffing a pursuit with Sasquatch is ballin'. This is especially good if your opponent likes to roll, because you can land as they get up and be in range for your C.Hk, leading to a 50/50 situation; you can warm up their ribs, so to speak, with a few C.Hks until they stop trying to jump back on wakeup, and then you can just do your short hop combos on them all day.

Just neutral jumping right in front of you? Why not do the AG/Attack option select? This might sound crazy, because it's very hard...and to be honest, I feel like no one ever believes me when I tell them this...but you can absolutely stop that mixup where someone either does a powerful jump-in or an empty jump to command throw with one motion. Just find an attack that can't be crouched under, and do a very late AG starting with that attack. If they do a jump attack, you'll AG (hopefully, if you can 1-hit tech), and if they just land, they'll land right on your meaty whatever-the-fuck normal you chose. Landing on the ground doesn't mean they are in the clear; not every command throw has invulnerable startup, and even if they do, characters have at least one landing frame before they can do any attack, so having an attack out as they land will always beat a command throw attempt.

Moment Slice is probably one of Talbain's best attacks. Moment Slice combos typically result in the highest Red Damage of any of Talbain's combos (Though ES BCs do more total damage), but the problem is that there aren't many setups for Moment Slice (where, on the other hand, you don't even need to set up an ES BC unless you're playing a very good player). The typical Moment Slice setups all require crossups; thus, the more obvious setups are to actually set up the spacing for a crossup J.Lk, or to do the Moment Slice OS: after knocking an opponent down, do a neutral J.Lk from the distance where your opponent would be directly under you if they attempted a forward roll. When the J.Lk connects, land and do the Moment Slice combination, while tacking an Hp at the end of it. If you are on the right side, you will do (J.Lk \/ C.Lp -> C.Mp xx Moment Slice). If you landed on the wrong side, you will still get (J.Lk \/ C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp). These setups are gimmicky and obvious, though. What you need is a good way to incorporate it in your normal mixups, instead of largely telegraphed, elaborate setups that anyone can see coming a mile away. Unfortunately, the only good way at that point is to combo it off the dash. Unfortunately, the difficulty and setups can differ greatly from character to character; some characters will be very easy to hit with any setup, while some characters can only be hit by a crossup. Some characters can't be hit by Moment Slice from a dash at all! Hence, I've made this list which indicates all the information you might need about comboing into Moment Slice from a dash attack on any character. Per each character, I've listed whether it's possible (and if it's just really hard), whether they can be crossed up by a D.Lk (or if they can ONLY be hit by Moment Slice with a D.Lk crossup to begin with), and which common dash attacks (D.Lk; D.Mk) and dash links (D.Lk, D.Lp; D.Mk, D.Lp) can be used. I've also compiled a list of some of the most simple setups, which you might using to establish the threat of a dash already: Pursuit: This indicates whether or not a successful pursuit attack will set up a D.Lk \/ C.Lp -> S.Mp xx Moment Slice. C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: This indicates whether or not the following chain will set up a D.Lk \/ C.Lp -> S.Mp xx Moment Slice from point blank or roughly point blank. This setup can be used with the D.Mk, D.Lk Dash Link. C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: This indicates whether or not the following chain will set up a D.Mk \/ C.Lp -> S.Mp xx Moment Slice from point blank or roughly point blank. Notice that this setup requires a D.Mk, not a D.Lk like all other setups do. This setup can be done with the D.Mk, D.Lk Dash Link, and they might even be required in this setup against Jedah and Rikuo. C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: This indicates whether or not the following chain will set up a D.Lk \/ C.Lp -> S.Mp xx Moment Slice from point blank or roughly point blank. This setup is typically used to set up a crossup D.Lk, and thus it's going to be assumed to cross up unless noted otherwise. As a bonus, since Dashing into Moment Slice doesn't work on the whole cast, I've added the most damaging chain combo that knocks an opponent down. This can also be useful on an opponent who can be hit with a Dashing setup into Moment Slice, as you won't always have meter. The three typical combos are: C.Lp -> C.Lk -> S.Mk -> C.Hk C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk ONE FINAL, IMPORTANT NOTE: THESE SETUPS ALL ASSUME THAT YOUR OPPONENT IS CROUCHING. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT ALL OF THESE SETUPS WILL WORK AGAINST A STANDING OPPONENT. Then again, why are you doing a dash if you think your opponent is going to be standing? And, of course, you can still land Moment Slice in other ways; this list is ONLY about comboing into Moment Slice off of a Dash attack. Without furhter ado, here's the master "Dashing Damage" list: 1. DEMITRI Possible: Yes Crossup: Yes - unlikely Single Hit? Yes, both Dash Link? Yes, both Setups: Pursuit: Yes C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: Yes C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: Demitri might be the easiest person in the game to hit with this combo. Who knows why? Maybe cos he's just so damn fat when he's crouched. Either way, all setups work on him relatively easy, and - although I wouldn't go out of my way to set it up - you can even cross him up. The only real downside is that the Meterless Knockdown combo is the least damaging of any variant. ...Who cares? You can Moment Slice the shit out of Demi. 2. VICTOR Possible: Yes (moderate) Crossup: No Single Hit? Yes Dash Link? Yes Setups: Pursuit: Yes C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: Yes C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes (does not crossup) Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: Victor is a little difficult to hit with Moment Slice, but every setup works. If you are rockin' out against your opponent, I'd give it a shot; but, I wouldn't go out of my way to set it up. 3. ANAKARIS Possible: Crossup only (difficult) Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup Dash Link? No Setups: Pursuit: No C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk Thoughts: Completely impossible, except in the unlikely event of a crossup. I would have never guessed, since Anak seems to get the shaft in virtually every regard. However, the Meterless Knockdown combo is the strongest possible variant, and you'll have to go out of your way to make it miss. That's good, right? 4. FELICIA Possible: Crossup only (difficult) Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup Dash Link? No; in addition, D.Mk, D.Lk is impossible against Felicia Setups: Pursuit: No C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: Screw you, Felicia. I figured that testing this might help me find an edge in some of Talbain's harder matches, but you can only land this from a Dashing crossup and the timing is extremely tight. On top of that, you can only use the weakest possible Meterless Knockdown variant. Blah. 5. B.B HOOD Possible: Yes - only by crossup or corner (corner is difficult) Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk (crossup or corner) Dash Link? No; Dash Links are impossible against B.B Hood Setups: Pursuit: No C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk Thoughts: I would virtually never go for this in the corner. It's very random, and your success seems to be dictated by your spacing - you can't just be right on top of her when you go for it, and the exact range appears to be so pixel-precise that I couldn't even figure it out...either that, or it depends heavily on factors like how late you hit D.Lk before landing, and how fast you cancel S.Mp into Moment Slice. But, if your timing has to be that tight, why risk it? Besides, crossing her up is stupidly easy anyways, and that's very hard to mess up. 6. BISHAMON Possible: Corner only (difficult) Crossup: No Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk Dash Link? Yes, D.Lk, D.Lp; I could not get D.Mk, D.Lp to work even once Setups: Pursuit: No C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: No Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: I really thought this was gonna be different. You can land a Dashing Moment Slice off a D.Lp or the D.Lp, D.Lk Dash Link. Either way, it's pretty hard. 7. JEDAH Possible: Yes (moderate) Crossup: Yes (difficult) Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk Dash Link? Yes Setups: Pursuit: Yes C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Lk -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: Well, it's not easy, but you can hit him with the combo in midscreen, the corner, and even by crossup. As for his Meterless Knockdown variant, the spacing is a little tight. If you're not landing your Dash attack off of one of the recommended setups, you might just opt for C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk anyways. 8. Q-BEE Possible: No; Moment Slice does not hit Q-Bee when she's crouching. Cross-Up: No; crossup is possible and easy to do, but Moment Slice still does not connect. Single Hit? No Dash Link? No Setups: Pursuit: No C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: No Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk Thoughts: This didn't exactly take a long time to test. I already knew that Moment Slice was useless against Q-Bee because she can just crouch under it. The only valuable thing to take away is that you can do the most powerful Meterless Knockdown variant on Q-Bee, and since her defense is very low, it does a whopping 29% of her lifebar before damage scaling. Suck it, Q-Bee! Also, this might be slightly out of the scope of this article, but if you are really looking to do damage to Q-Bee off a dash, you can use the old D.(something) \/ S.M(p) xx ES BC combo (in other words, replace the optimal S.Mk which will whiff Q-Bee, with S.Mp which will not). The full combo with pursuit will do exactly 50%. But, we are not looking at combos that deal with ES Beast Cannon right now. Moving along. 9. HSIEN-KO Possible: Yes (difficult; corner impossible) Crossup: Yes (difficult) Single Hit? Yes Dash Link? No; in addition, D.Mk, D.Lk is impossible against Hsien-Ko Setups: Pursuit: No C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk Thoughts: I don't even know, dude. I know for a fact that you can land this combo on Hsien because when I began the tests, I landed the full combo on my very first try. However, absolutely none of the common setups work, I can't seem to hit her with it at all in the corner, and it's difficult to cross her up. Oh well - this fight is like a total blowout, anyways; having this on top of all of Talbain's other advantages would be ridiculous. Meterless Knockdown combo is as good as it gets though, so at least that's something. 10. J. TALBAIN Possible: Crossup only Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup Dash Link? No; Dash Links are impossible against Talbain Setups: Pursuit: No C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk Thoughts: Normally, all of Talbain's bullshit works very effectively against himself. Here...well, it's not perfect, but landing the crossup combo is very easy, and the setup works nicely. Meterless Knockdown combo is the most damaging possible variant. 11. LILITH Possible: Yes; much easier with crossup or corner Single Hit? Yes Dash Link? No; Dash Links are impossible against Lilith Setups: Pursuit: Yes C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: ...So. It's definitely possible midscreen, and all the variations that are set up by a single D.Lk will work. But, they are honestly very hard, for the most part. Thankfully, crossing her up is very easy, allowing for an easy Moment Slice. Also, for whatever reason, landing the combo against her when she's cornered is much easier. I would have guessed this would be the case against most of the cast; however, Lilith is one of the last characters I tested, and this was the first time I ran into this phenomenon. TL;DR: Do it when you've crossed her up or when she's cornered. Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant, but Lilith dies so fast it probably doesn't matter. 12. RIKUO Possible: Yes (difficult; corner impossible) Crossup: Yes (difficult) Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup Dash Link? Yes, D.Mk, D.Lk Setups: Pursuit: No C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: Yes C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: I don't think it's worth it to try your luck against Rikuo. The only setups that work are the crossup, which is very, very hard to do against Rikuo; and the setup for Talbain's Dash Link, which aside from having the highest possible margin of error already, will whiff Rikuo unless you step just a hair forward before doing the dash. And, honestly, in that hair of a second, your opponent could very well do anything but sit there and wait to get hit by your dash. Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant. 13. L. RAPTER Possible: Yes Crossup: Yes (difficult) Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup Dash Link? Yes, D.Lk, D.Lp; in addition, D.Mk, D.Lk is impossible against Rapter Setups: Pursuit: Yes C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: Holy shit. Everything about this test has defied my expectations. As it turns out, Rapter might be one of the easiest characters to land this combo against. The only thing that's difficult is hitting him with a crossup - ironically, the only thing I expected might be feasible. It's possible to get him in the corner with either a single D.Lk or the D.Lk, D.Lp Dash Link; however, the Dash Link requires very accurate spacing and is easy to mess up. Since it's virtually impossible to miss otherwise, I'd say forego the Dash Link. Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant...but who fuggin' cares? You can hit Rapter with a Dashing Moment Slice combo! 14. SASQUATCH Possible: Crossup only (difficult) Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup Dash Link? No; in addition, D.Mk, D.Lk is impossible against Sasquatch Setups: Pursuit: No C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: What. A. Dick. The only way you're ever gonna land this against Sas is if you cross him up, which is super-hard to combo into. To add insult to injury, your Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant. 15. MORRIGAN Possible: Yes (...kind of difficult?) Crossup: Yes (difficult) Single Hit? Yes Dash Link? No; Dash Links are impossible against Morrigan Setups: Pursuit: Yes C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk Thoughts: I dunno...it's like, hitting her with this combo is not as easy as possible, like it is against Demi or Rapter. But, on the other hand, it's not mind-bendingly difficult, like Hsien-Ko or Rikuo. It's easy enough that even though there's a margin of error, I'd still personally go for it. Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant. ______________________ SIMPLER YES/NO LISTS For the people who don't want to peruse the entire document, here are a lot of do/don't lists. I've made a lot of lists, depending on how people like to take in the information, so there's going to be a bit of redundancy. The following characters can be hit with DMS (Dashing Moment Slice) combos, midscreen and corner, very easily: Demitri L. Rapter The following characters are easier to hit in the corner: Lilith (also easy with crossup) The following characters are best to hit with a crossup: B.B Hood J. Talbain The following characters can be hit with DMS combos with a slightly higher margin of error in the midscreen and corner: Victor Jedah Morrigan The following characters are very difficult to hit with DMS combos, yet it can be done midscreen: Hsien-Ko Rikuo Corner only...and the corner combo is very difficult: Bishamon Crossup only...and the crossup is very difficult: Anakaris Felicia Sasquatch The following characters can not be hit by Moment Slice while crouching: Q-Bee I wouldn't try crossing these characters up with a DMS combo: Demitri Anakaris Felicia Jedah Hsien-Ko Rikuo Rapter Sasquatch Morrigan Victor (crossup impossible) Bishamon (crossup impossible) Q-Bee (because fuck you, Q-Bee) I wouldn't try DMS combos in the corner against these characters: B.B Hood Bishamon J.Talbain Anakaris (corner impossible) Felicia (corner impossible) Hsien-Ko (corner impossible) Rikuo (corner impossible) Sasquatch (corner impossible) Q-Bee (STFU) Strangely enough, you shouldn't try DMS combos midscreen (not counting crossups) against these guys: B.B Hood Hsien-Ko Lilith Rikuo Anakaris (impossible without crossup) Felicia (impossible without crossup) J.Talbain (impossible without crossup) Sasquatch (impossible without crossup) Bishamon (impossible except with corner) Q-Bee (impossible except with hax) Overall safe to try midscreen (not counting crossup): Demi (easy) Rapter (easy) Morrigan (moderate) Victor (moderate) Jedah (moderate) Overall safe to cross up: B.B Hood (easy) J. Talbain (easy) Lilith (moderate) Overall safe to hit in the corner: Demi (easy) Rapter (easy) Lilith (easy) Morrigan (moderate) Victor (moderate) Jedah (moderate) Meterless Knockdown master list for C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk: Anakaris B.B Hood Q-Bee Hsien-Ko J.Talbain Meterless Knockdown master list for C.Lp -> C.Lk -> S.Mk -> C.Hk: Jedah Meterless Knockdown mastery list for C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk: Demitri Victor Felicia Bishamon Lilith Rikuo Rapter Sasquatch Morrigan

If less attacks are easier to hit-confirm, I think you might not understand what "hit-confirming" really is. To clarify, hit-confirming is literally confirming that the beginning of your combo connected without blocking, allowing you to safely continue the rest of your combo without wasting meter, leaving yourself in an unsafe position, getting Alpha-Countered, etc. It goes without saying that the more hits you have to hit-confirm the second half of the combo, the better the hit-confirm is. To use a different game as an example, this is why in Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike, Chun-Li's C.Mk xx SA2 is so powerful. It's not simply the fact that she can combo a stray low into a super (otherwise Elena would be top tier also). It's the fact that the window for canceling the C.Mk is so long, that you can do the move, buffer 236236, check and see if the C.Mk connected, think about what you wanna eat for lunch, and then press K to start the SA2. The meta-game for hit-confirming is slightly different in VS with the prevalence of Guard Cancels, however; you want to hit-confirm with as short of an opener as you need, and you would want to use as safe of a move as possible. This is why Felicia's ability to link things off of her jab make for excellent hit-confirms. You can see some videos of Orecom (or Orekon, whatever), one of the best Felicia players in the world, do [C.Lp, C.Lk -> C.Mk -> C.Hk] when he could just do [C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mk -> C.Hk]. The fact of the matter is, that link is really important for someone like Felicia who relies on chain combos to do the bulk of her damage; unlike, say, Talbain, Morrigan, Rikuo, etc. people who have one particular attack that is the main goal of their offense.

It might have higher damage potential, but how easy is it to land, compared to combos into ES? Since the typical ES Combo is (some jump-in) \/ C.Lp, C.Mp XX ES Rolling Buckler, it's much easier to hit-confirm. You also can't do that link and combo into EX; C.Lp, C.Mp XX Dancing Flash does not work.

The BB Hood player in this video's name is "supermotimoti". Just so you guys know, he's on GGPO pretty often, and he's pretty damn good.

Climb Razor is probably decent in those situations because the hitbox in the front is very, very good. Since both fighters would be roughly one character length away horizontally, it'll take a high-priority normal to knock it out...or, at least, an intelligently-timed normal whose active box extends under their vulnerable box. I think most if not all characters in the game have at least one air normal like this. The reason Big Towers wins in this situation is obvious; Sas is going to be too low to the ground to get hit, and you can't hit - let alone trade against - the icicles. Hence, it's more like an evade-and-counter that is extremely unlikely to fail. As for ES Giga Burn...I have no idea why you're seeing that win all the time. The startup is slow (9 frames; ES is 12 frames), and the active box is pretty small. The ES version is a lot bigger; but the box's increased size extends backward and downwards, which shouldn't be an improvement for an anti-air move. However, the active box does extend forward past the vulnerable box by a decent amount, so that might be part of the reason for its success in this scenario.

All versions of Victor's Giga Burn (knee) have no invulnerable frames unless done as a Guard Cancel, in which case it has 11. His invulnerable (non-GC) attacks are: Dark Force, Mega Forehead, Mega Stake (the jumping, huge fist attack), and Thunder Break (Electric Earthquake super). All versions of Talbain's Climb Razor (flash kick) have no invulnerable frames. Talbain's invulnerable (non-GC) attacks are: Dark Force, and Wild Circular (command throw). No version of Sasquatch's Big Towers have invulnerable frames. The only invulnerable move Sasquatch has besides GC are his Dark Forces.

That scanned page shows two Delta Kicks. The first is for the Guard Cancel version, which does have invulnerability on startup (as virtually all GCs do). The second listing in the center of the page is for the normal version; note that all versions including the ES have six startup frames and no invulnerability. Also, in the case of Felicia's C.Hp, it doesn't necessarily matter that it can be air-guarded, because this scenario assumes the opponent is going to counter-attack; if we were certain they weren't going to counter-attack, we would simply opt for the standard Guard Break.

Keep in mind, if you land but don't have enough time to Guard Break your airborne opponent, you can also GC their attack. It's not necessarily a GOOD idea, but this can be handy to remember for characters with invincible GCs. Another thing to consider, too, is that you don't necessarily need an invincible attack. If you have a crouching anti-air, it can be used if the opponent is high enough to hit a standing opponent but too high to connect against a crouching opponent. Using Talbain as an example, the standard Guard Break attack is S.Lp, but C.Hp is effective when the opponent is within a certain distance from the ground. Lastly, if we're assuming the attacker is landing on the ground before they get hit, you can supersede the entire mind game by just blocking, or adding an extra layer of 'meta' on it by AG'ing the airborne opponent's counter-attack, leaving you with better frame advantage and positioning than you would have had otherwise. This may allow you to punish THEM for trying to punish you - omgwtf And, just a note; Talbain's Climb Razor is not invincible - not any version at all. However, I believe it does have the unique property of being one of the only AA's that can't be air-blocked if the opponent is too low to the ground. That property exists with the normal versions, as well as the ES. As to its effectiveness in this situation, I have no empirical data to report. The startup is slower than S.Lp, but it IS faster than C.Hp, and it can be done from the crouching position. But, any further speculation from me would be straight-up theory fighter.

Well...this is super ultra max theory fighter...but I know that in ST for example, some characters have wider crouching hitboxes than standing. I really have no idea if this is the case in VS, or if there's any esoteric situation where it would actually matter. Not to mention...I can't test this right now because I don't have my PS2 on me, but also in some games, crouching opponents take more damage. Can't remember if this is true in VS, although I doubt it. Both of these points are very theoretical and I can't currently test either; however, these are some points that might make it more attractive to stay standing.