KM Riku

http://blazblue.jp/cp/update110.html Buffs: + 2nd hit of 3C is now OD-cancelable Nerfs: - Hexa-edge has OD version (No more double hexa edge OD combos, might also be a buff in some cases?) - Backdash: Nerfed from 18 to 22 frames. - 6C: Recovery nerfed from 18 to 29 frames. Don't whiff~! Active nerfed from 6 to 3. You will now be required to cancel 6C on block/hit at all times, you don't have a choice. Uncharged is now level 3 instead of level 4. - 5D: Knockback increased. Probably won't affect anything near-corner or corner. - j.D: 92 P2 nerfed to 82 P2. For the corner carry you can get from this, it makes sense to nerf this damage. Since the combo system isn't based on proration in BBCP, routes will not change, but damage will. j.236B -> .. -> j.D -> j.4D~A -> 66 -> 6C will probably be optimal, and the - corner routes won't take much of a hit either. - j.236Bx5: 60% minimum damage nerfed 40% minimum damage (aka 400 minimum now instead of 600, not a huge change). I believe OD j.236Bx5 stays the same, since it's listed separately in the frame data. - 214D: Nerfed startup by 3 frames. This includes when you can attack from it. - Unison Drive: Normal version now wall bounces instead of giving a hard knockdown. Nerfed from 2113 to 1960 damage. Minimum damage nerfed from 1050 to 820. Buffed in OD from 2307 to 2497 damage. Minimum OD damage nerfed from 1640 to 1225. (Needs confirmation: At mid screen, you can tech after the wall bounce) - Dancing edge: Doesn't deal chip damage. Attack boxes don't come into existance unless the opponent is relatively close (ie long ranged normals will lose more easily) 5D knockback increased. Another nerf to her drive like her CS2 one. It's basically telling you to use mobility more than just the drive itself to hit people. Be creative and cautious when doing drives (we already have to do this in some matchups), and you will be able to adapt General: - All charged C attacks partially charged will just be the normal version, no more accidental fully charged C's. ??? - If you drive close to the ground, you will still attack before landing. Thank Hiago for the translation <3 (Edited your post for the thread starter) - XDest

About the 2C punishes, 2C CH->6[C] works without fatal too. Glorious shorter charge time.

Bowling ball while you and the opponent are in a coner-> pull the opponent away to the other coner->OD 214214C->bowling ball hits->214214C

Asked a friend if there was anything in the Tao jbbs about that, but nothing at all. They are talking about it in the Carl forum though lol. Btw, 6B->Cat2 (whiff)->5B does combo and it's even a challenge combo.

http://p.twipple.jp/ahb5O Tsujikawa cosplaying Homura from Madoka at Arc Revolution...I don't even know what to say lol.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?15392-CP-Hakumen-Final-Changes&p=1430876&viewfull=1#post1430876

I already gave a BB example, but whatever, let me say some others: GGXX (before AC): 4 - Faust, Slayer, Millia, Eddie GG Slash: 2 - Sol and Ky (not more than 3, but still shows that top tier doesn't always have 3) Jojo Bizarre Adventure (counting that Petshop is banned): 4 - Kakyoin, Jotaro, Abdul, Polnareff SSFIV AE 2012: There's not a very definite tier list of this, but you definitely have at least Cammy, Akuma, Fei Long and Seth at top tier (4 top tiers) - although SFIV have more characters, it's like BBCP's 21 characters is a low number. It's almost the same as GG (actually, I think that with Terumi and Kagura, BB has more characters now) Persona 4 Arena: For a long time we had Yu, Chie, Mitsuru, Aigis and Kuma at the top tier (5 chars). This isn't really different now, although the general opnion is that the 3 strongest characters are Yu, Chie and Mitsuru, with Aigis and Kuma just behind with little difference...but honestly, this is almost a game between just top tiers lol. I don't remember more from head (there's even games that I even don't know about the tiers to talk), but with searching you can definitely find more top tiers with more than 3 chars. It's true that usually you have only 3 top tiers, but that's not a rule. It's not because most of games have 3 top tiers that every game need to. Tsubaki midscreen DON'T combo with only itself, you need at least Hotaru right after Tsubaki to combo (5 magatamas). This means that if we block Tsubaki midscreen, the Haku players WILL do a Hotaru after if he was planing to combo after and he'll need to spend 5 magatamas. Even at coner it's not really easy to combo after Tsubaki alone decently. Yes, blocking TK Tsubaki is damn hard, but not impossible. Besides, like I said before, if he wants to combo after Tsubaki, he needs to spend 5 magatamas even if we happen to block. It's not like Haku is always have 5 magatamas to use it all the time, he still needs to use them in another combos, neutral and reversal. And...after all this is the only real good mixup option of him, every other is pretty bad~decent, which overrall doesn't make his mixup really good, not compared with all the other characters in game, it's decent at best. About the mobility, it's not like Hakumen's problems with mobility are serious, at least not in a level like Bullet/Tager, specially with his black hole stuff and he cut projectiles. It's a minor weakness, pretty much like Tao low HP, but still make some difference in some cases. In the carl stuff I don't really get this argument. Carl have been like this in every BB game and he has always been A tier at least, it's not something CP exclusive and that it suddenly made him so much worse and some players left him, saying this is the reason because he's not so viable in CP is just silly, it's saying that he never was. It's just pretty much his design, Carl lokedown/pressure is the best of the game and some characters, once caught by Carl, can't do nothing until you burst, Carl mess up or Nirvana dies (if you are not dead first), so he have low HP to balance that. Right now we have very strong competitively Carls. He evolved very much since the beginning of the game. Actually, I put that order on purpose. It was a silly try of a psycological effect, I put Haku at first and Tao not at top 3 so you wouldn't mind too much after reading that phrase and don't really comment on it in your next post, but in the end it had the opposite effect and I got the worst ahahaha :3 Nothing to really comment on all the rest, some part would be me repeating what I already said and the other would be me agreeing on some points.

Don't get me wrong. It's not like arguing and having a discussion is a bad thing, neither I am taking things at the heart (otherwise I would already have a heart attack at this point). If I really made myself look like that, which I think I did a little in my last post, then I'm sorry. Actually, I like discussing this kind of stuff very much (otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time writting this stuff)...however I said that I wanted to end this discussing because I felt that this discussion was going no where since...aahnnn...in my honest opnion, while I have no problem with you having your opnion, some of your arguments are very silly while you keep insisting on them and they aren't making this discussion better. Let me get some of your arguments: -"Tao can't be top tier cause I think she isn't top 3 and tier list have only 3 chars at the top tier". -You are repeating this argument all the time, even though I already said that there's no rule at all that says that. Hell, I even gave a example of a previous version of Blazblue. What pretty much determinates the numbers of top tiers in a game is the summation of the matchup numbers and then we see the results, the characters with the most points, how many have that same ammount or pretty close, analyze the difference in points between a "group" of characters, etc etc etc. The more balanced a game is, the possibilities of having more characters in a top/high tier increases as well, which I pretty much think is the case now. The currently top 5 chars in game (Haku/Litchi/Haz/Tao/Jin - no specific order) have almost no differencet between them, if there's it's just too little, and I still think that even this top5 is not fully determinated yet cause you still have lots chars that are damn strong. The only chars that pretty much have been really underwhelming, for now, are Amane, Bullet and Izayoi. However, about Tao herself, she's pretty much one of the best chars in the game (like Ronove, I think she is at least top3, but who knows, too little difference). -"The most famous tier whores of the whole Blazblue are picking Tao because she's anti meta, not because she's actualy top teir and part of that meta". Another of the points you insist. I still don't get this whole "Tao anti-meta". You said since CT, but the only top/high tier there that Tao didn't have problems was Nu...and the matchup was even. All other characters (Rachel/Arakune/Jin) were TERRIBLE matchups to Tao. CS1...well...we indeed had a good matchup against Bang and you could said that she is pretty much Anti-Bang in every game (no tools to deal with Tao mobility outside of D Shuriken which are limited, no AA outside of Ashura that you still need 50 meter), but she still had a pretty bad matchup against Litchi...again I can't really call this anti-meta, just Anti-bang. Then we get to CS2/CSEX/CP, we really didn't have any real problems with the top/high teir, maybe at most CS2 Jin, but still Tao had no definite advantage against the top tier at all, she just didn't have problems with them...and other characters as well. I REALLY can't see how this is anti-meta. Also, if she was so anti-meta and that's why she is picked now...why she wasn't picked this much before? CS1 Taos were in a very low ammount for most part (more than half of the players were Bang/Litchi, it was really a dark age), we had ocasional matchs (mostly from Nagoya Street Battle which doesn't exist anymore, saddly) of Tsujikawa, Matoi and Uisura (which are all great Tao players)...and Keita, but he isn't really that good. CS2/CSEX we started to see more Tao players, but still we didn't have that many. Suddenly we get LOTS of Tao now in CP, pretty much from players that are known for picking top tiers characters. -the whole Hakumen stuff - Let me start with a quote of yours: Please, quote me where the hell I said he had glaring weakness that suddenly made Haku so much worse. I think I made myself quite clear a lot of times (I don't even need to quote) that while Haku have weaknesses that makes difference, he's still pretty much top tier and a great character. Now about you never saying that Hakumen is flawless... If you really didn't intend to say that Hakumen is flawless, then you reacted and wrote that really badly. You act like the weaknesses that Haku has means little to nothing, while Tao not having Valk/Carl/Litchi level of mixup and having the lowest HP in the game, even though her mixup is good and she has the best mobility of the game, is so grave that she couldn't be top tier cause of it. While we are at it, let me include the Arakune discussion here as well. You insist in the "Arakune just need 1 or 2 combo to kill Tao" thing too much (which is only true in CP if you get caught in a combo right at the beginning of a curse without blocking or even trying to flee), but you are just seeing a small picture here. Let me take Tager here as an example, he has the biggest HP of the game, against CP Arakune he probably can take a few curse combos and still live...however Tager mobility and options against Arakune are sooooo bad that the ammount of times Tager is getting easily cursed is damn big and this make the matchup really bad for him. Tao is completely opposite of this, we have little HP and in some cases he needs 1 curse less to kill her, but Tao options are sooooo good against Arakune, his entire zoning to get your cursed is completely useless against Tao (maybe the AA cloud if you jump too high) that the only way to get cursed it getting caught enough times to be 100% cursed (without meter)...and Arakune mobility is so weird that he can't even touch Tao unless you fly at him mindless. I'll try say the opposite, you fail to see how her mobility is so significant and that pretty much is what made Tao at least A in every version of the game since CS1. In CT, Tao wasn't that much of a good character (not compared to the top/high tier, which were VERY powerful back then), she had big easy damage and she had more HP, but her Drive wasn't that good for her neutral and pressure, both ~A and ~B cancel were terrible (~A specially, we couldn't even use that shit on hit to pressure or combo). In CS1, however, her drive got some really BIG buffs, more hitstun for every drive (A LOT of more combo options), ~A and ~B cancel really useful and made her neutral REALLY good, most of characters can't really catch her if you start runing all the match. Every game after (CS2/CSEX/CP), her drive didn't have any really big nerf in mobility (with the exception of j.D range nerf, but that shit was so damn retarded), the only big changes they have been doing in her drive is combo-wise. In the end, we traded a 1000 HP for a really better drive that is damn great, something that I would never give up to have more HP/better pressure. If she had a better pressure in CP, there's no doubt that she would be the strongest top tier. "the JJBS is like the netplay general, so their opnion don't really count that much" - Ronove already said everything, no need to enter in details here. And for last: the Carl stuff There's something that I agree here with you here, most of the Arc Rev arguments aren't really good. It kinda left a bitter taste in my mouth for actually using them, but I felt that for this purpose it was enough for at least saying that the "Carl is not fit for CP now" is wrong. Let me explain it a little better, what you said about top Carl players lefting him because in the begining he wasn't givinig results is true, Ryuusei himself said in a interview that he changed to Jin because he, playing as Carl, couldn't do anything against Jin so changed characters. However, that was pretty much a situation that happened in the beginning of CP where Carl wasn't well figured out. Hazama is a pretty similar example, he wasn't consired this good in the begining of CP, he even looked a little weak, but then people figured him out and he skyrocket in the tiers (which actually happens in every BB lol). Carl is very similar, right now you are having a big rise from him (and Valk, acording with the Arc Rev interview of Valk players who won a gold ticket), people are winning a lot more and getting new tech all the time (unlike characters like Haku/Jin that have been a little stagnant), I think this video shows a little what I am talking about. Ryuusei himself with Jin didn't even get a silver ticket, while Carl is one character that have many of representants in Arc Rev. I think this is enough to show that he completely fits CP competitively. Oh god, I'm tired of writting all this stuff (while I think that English is easy, it's still kinda tiresome writting this much in a language that it's not your native, sorry if I wrote something wrong or confusing). I think there's nothing else to add from me, anymore would be like saying that same stuff all over again until we both get tired of this. Again, sorry if at some point in this or another post I made myself look rude/angry/whatever, it's just kinda hard to reproduce the exactly feelings in just writting. edit: I god, I myself already saw lots to typos. I hope it's better now. And holy shit, this is a really big wall of text.

After this, I pretty much realized that there's no point discussing with your anymore, just saying a few last words (read that as "another wall of text"): Hakumen having no weakness? Are you serious? Hakumen is very strong in CP (pretty much a top tier), but flawless? Sorry, but having a bad mobility is a issue, specially in this game where we have so many mobile or zoning heavy characters. Tao herself should be the living proof of how mobility is damn important in the game, Hakumen (and a lot of characters) can't even catch her unless you mindless fly right at his face. Hakumen's 5D had 15f of recovery, 2D 30f and 6D has only 6f but a 17f startup...you have enough time to get a good punish on his face and lots of chars can even FC him...and the hell, you talk like throws in this game don't have a huge reward (Tao CP has a very good coner carry from hers and good damage), his drive being throwable is a big deal. About Hotaru, I actually forgot about it, my bad, it's a pretty good reversal, although you still need to spend meter from it and some other to get a really good combo from it midscreen. TK Tsubaki, while a very fast overhead and that does big damage, you need 5 magatamas to combo from it midscreen decently, it still makes Hakumen mixup options kinda poor. And sure, Carl is not a good fit for BB , you just have the same ammount of Carls and Hakumens in Arc Rev. And Valk wolf stuff not being affective? Holy mother, he just gained 2 more wolf normals that are damn good and reduces a lot the mashing in the middle of his pressure, also Valk is the character with the most representants in Arc Rev (8 Valks, all the other chars have at max 5). Won't comment on the Arakune matchup against Tao because I already made my point about it in another post, and he needs more than 1 curse now. Honestly, you have some unrealistic sights about some stuff in this game (the Haku having no weakness was a pretty good one). Isa and all the other tier whores suddenly just picked Tao cause she is anti-meta in CP, even though that by your words she was this "anti-meta" since CS1? By your definition of "anti-meta", any top tier in this game would be one cause they have no trouble with the others top tiers...and that isn't anti-meta at all. You may not want to accept it, but Tao is pretty much top tier (again, maybe not the best top tier, but still there) and that's pretty much acknowledged by almost all JP comunity, but who cares, they are just bunch of netplay scrubs lol. That's it, this ends any discussion of mine with you.

While this is not totally untrue, it's not like every post in jbbs is a bunch of crap. It's like saying all posts of tier list discussion in this forum are worthless cause we have people that have little/no experience and post some totally weird stuff that makes no sense. Also it's not like one or two people are saying that Tao is top tier, it's a pretty big part of the japanese comunity. Okay, now this is just a really silly argument. Although we have lots of cases like that, there's no rule at all which says that the top tier usually have only 3 chars, specially when the numbers of characters is always increasing. CS2 top tier, for exemple, for a long time was composed of Makoto, Noel, Hazama and Jin, four characters, until Makoto got the S tier all for herself (there was not enough space with her big fluffy tail ). There's no number limit in a tier. Arakune isn't really considered that much of a thread in CP, he's pretty average now, but whatver. While I agree that Tao have no problems with the other top tiers in the game...none of the top tier in CP have a problem with each other at all LOL, they are pretty much balanced between themself, hell the most you could say is that Haku have some mobility problems against Haz and Tao. About the tier placement in CP...honestly, I think the top 5 isn't very defined at the moment, we have lots of strong chars and just a few too weak (in my opnion, Izayoi, Bullet and Amane). Right now, I think the strongest 5 chars in this game are Haku, Haz, Litchi, Tao and Jin, with no order. While Hakumen is very strong and has a big comeback potential, people put much credit on that and forget that he has some big flaws (big, no mobility, VERY risk reversals, no mixup or pressure) and he has been falling a little. Litchi/Hazama, however, are two characters that have been getting better over the time and currently we are having a big rise from Carl and Valkenhayn. Remember that you don't really need lots of 6-4 matchups to be considered top, depending on the situation some 5.5-4.5 are enough for that when the game is kinda balanced (which I think is the case now, with some exceptions). As XDest said, I don't see Tao with many 6-4 matchups (maybe Tager, Arakune), but I could say the same from any top5 from this game right now. Tao may not be the best character in the game, but she is still among the strongests.

Just Isa playing Tao should be proof enough that she's top tier because...yeah...Isa is a big tier whore in every BB game, Satoshi is also playing her and he's as much of a tier whore...but let me point some stuff: 1º-don't really take dan that seriously when talking about tiers. 1 month and a half ago the top3 were all Taokaka and not long ago the top dan of the ranking was a 19dan Platinum. The dan ranking is changing all the time and it's really easy to lose a dan (Fenrich, the top Jin player, lost 2 dan in less than 1 week. Matoi as well), right now you have even a Relius and Arakune in the top 10 dan and they are pretty much average in the game. The dan system is not a good way to measure tiers. 2º-pretty much all the japanese community agrees that Tao is top tier. If you don't believe me, just go to the jbbs tier list thread and try finding one where Tao isn't at S tier. Also, lots of people who had won a gold ticket to Arc Revolution gave a interview to Famitsu after the qualifier and on 80% there's a comment saying how worried they are about Tao because she's damn strong and she's the biggest challenge in the event. No other character had comments like this...well...except when Souji also said that he's also worried about Valk, who is being considered S tier by some players now. Honestly, it's not even hard to believe Tao is top tier in the game.

Qualifiers for Arc Rev are already over, but there are 2 Last Chances on the day of the event...so he still has a chance, although I don't really care lol. About the taunt, Tao still could combo with her taunt even after CS1...it's just that her taunt P2 is so shit (10% I think) that isn't even worth of using it. And honestly...the damage difference in this taunt ender isn't even that high and it still allows the same 5D SMP oki that lots of Tao are using now. Anyway, it's pretty sad that there's the possibility of a balance patch before the console version is out (almost a year after the arcade release, I totally see it coming), so there's a chance that we won't have top tier Tao 3:

I tried to search the video and...I couldn't find it again and neither our jap->portuguese translator, so I think he deleted it. However, when I showed this vid to our translator to joke how Arakune is broken (a popular gag here), he told me that the comments said that this setup was not guaranted and you could not tech to avoid it, maybe that's why the video was removed. edit: yup, he deleted it for sure.

It's worth noting that this setup is not guaranted. There was a vid in nico explaning this, all you have to do to avoid it is to not tech (as you can see in the video, the hit count drops to zero after some hits of FoG + j.B)

http://youtu.be/xssYXxJqbEM?t=39s What the freaking hell? Did I just saw a j.D~C CH doing 4k dmg? Oh god, we are almost at Tao CS1 level lol.