Eclipse

Thanks for confirming that. Fireryda probably just had a typo, and he meant faster.

Really? I always thought that 6B was way slower than 3C. At least it feels that way when I'm using it. Hmm, maybe it has to do with the range. Nonetheless, I'd enjoy seeing your Hazama videos if you manage to get them up. The only styles I'm very familiar with are massive zoning (Zakiyama) and rushdown (Buppa). Thus far, I'd prefer the rushdown, but I'm curious to see how your playstyle of the awesome character develops.

Sorry Fireryda, I'm not that great at spotting internet sarcasm haha. Anyways, yeah, his combos can be hard to get into, but I really like Buppa's amazing pressure game with him. He consistently switches between 6A, 214D~A, and all of Hazama's low attacks to destroy his opponent with heat gain, or an overhead into Jayoku. 6B has a few uses. I know it can combo directly into Jayoku. However, overheads are usually better for that. And if you're hitting low, you might as well use 3C into Jayoku. I think 3C might even have better proration. Speaking of which, 6B has the exact same proration of 6A.

*Hazama* You should definitely try his playstyle out before you decide to main him, he's not really "easy" to use. Some characters just feel right to play as, according to an individual's style, etc. As Hazama does for me. Also, Hakumen tends to be one of his bad matchups, but none of them are overwhelmingly horrible, 60/40 isn't so bad. In all honesty, don't play a character to counter another character, just play whoever you like most and you can usually rise above the tiers if you dedicate enough (When the game is balanced enough). Even so... Hazama would never be banned. Banning a character out of a cast of 15 characters is absurd. Besides Litchi's normal combos can bring her up to 4-5K. Hakumen can get up to 12000+ damage in his powered up (Forgot the name of it) state. They shouldn't be banning Hazama. My only worry is that they get rid of all of the Jayoku combos when the console version gets released. It's one of my favorite parts of his game, so I'd be extremely disappointed.

Yeah, unfortunately I've seen people burst out of a Jayoku before, haha. And regarding my combo. I only reached 4432 damage by hitting twice with the 5C starter and charging 214D~C. Overall not worth it though, you're right. Since I think it'd be wiser to save the Jayoku for another combo and add a lot of damage that way. Unless you can kill them already of course. I really love the Jayoku follow ups anyways. There's something epic about it. And for my combo, adding a 5C after j.6D~D doesn't benefit it Fireryda since you can't get both 4D~A and 4D~D in after that. By going with 2C and using 4D twice it adds damage. Pair that with a charged Zaneiga and double hit 5C and you get 4432 damage. Anyways, I'll stick with the Jayoku combos. But I updated my previous weaker RC combo in the stylish combos section.

Hey, I wanted your guys advice on whether this is more of a practical combo or a stylish one. Either way, I really like it, and I'll be updating the previous combo I made up. 5C > 3C > 214D~C > 5C > 2C > 4D~A > 623D (RC) > (Back Jump) j.6D~D > 2C > 4D~A > 4D~D > j.214B# Damage: ~4432 *50 heat* Pretty high damage for a rapid cancel combo, but Jayoku combo's on FC usually beat it. Although, I think they may only win in the corner. In terms of mid-screen, it could be just as viable. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure this combo works on everyone without flaw, and since I'm mostly using the chains and 5C as the starter... The proration is very good all the way through. Edit: I'm thinking about adding 4D~A x 2 after the first 2C in the combo. But that may allow them to tech out early, so I'm not sure it'll work out.

Well, most "professionals" will try to pick people from high tiers. True... But he's a new character, and he's stylish, so I feel that everyone will swarm him. I mean, how much rave has Tsubaki received in the past 6 months. To be honest, I don't really care about her myself, haha. Maybe Mu-12 will get more action than Hazama.

Haha, I have a harder time dash canceling into 3C for some reason. Ah well... And that's my main concern when the console version gets released. I really don't want a bunch of people playing my main since I hate mirror matches. I've always wanted to main Hazama, just because of his personality and appearance. But his fighting style exceeded my expectations and I love chains.

If you're fairly certain on this: 236236B > 6D~Ax3 > 6D > 623D > (dash) 3C > 236236B > 6D~Ax2 > 6D~D > j.214B# = 7039 I'll add it. And yeah, Hazama can be difficult to play. Currently, I just continue to block until an opening then BnB or Jayoku for massive damage. I really want to learn how to do well without turtling though. I can use the drive starters. But I'm pretty horrible at dash canceling into BnB's, etc.

I checked the frame data thread, and Jayoku is listed as 2500. Could easily be a typo though. It never seemed like it did that much to me... Even when I used it as the first attack. And yeah, you're right about 6D~A as opposed to 214D~C. You may have brought something revolutionary to Hazama. Each follow up to 236236B has it's advantages though: 214D~C > 5C > 2C > 4D~A > 4D~D > j.214B# - Higher Heat Gain, *Easier to Pull Off* (For Most People) 6D~A x 3 > j.214B# - Higher Damage due to good proration, Opponent's bursting not nearly as rewarding. I think I'll mix it up here and there to catch my opponent off guard and take advantage of the "unpredictability" of Hazama. Also, forgot to mention a few posts ago. Thanks for recommending the 5C starter for the Stylish Combo that goes into Mizuchi Rekkazan, it's higher damage and more practical. I actually created that combo myself in an effort to find a combo that could compete with the Jayoku combos. Of course it fails in the corner, but it's semi-practical mid-screen.

Ironically, I have no trouble ever getting the 2B in the corner followup when Jayoku is involved. On the other hand, if I try to use Jakou after a normal BnB and follow up with 2B in the corner... I can never get it. Thanks for clearing everything up Fieryda. The only thing confusing me now is why... 5C > 236236B = 2216 Damage, and 236236B = 2500 Damage ... when 5C has 100% proration. And yes, just to confirm you're right about "P1 is the proration the move has on other attacks if it's used as a starter while P2 is the proration mid-combo on subsequent hits. So the 4th unique attack in the combo will have P1 of the 1st attack and P2 of the 2nd and 3rd." Is there some sort of third proration that lowers the damage on a combo, or maybe distortion drives automatically have lowered damage mid-combo. Who knows... Nonetheless, all Jayoku Combos are high damage, and going for the FC is almost always preferred. Note: Didn't you have a FC Jayoku Houtenjin Combo that was over 7K Fieryda? If so, I plan on adding it immediately.

So, the damage figure for Jayoku mid-combo was correct? The 214D~B (CH) one? *Just making sure.* Also, have you tried 6D~A x 3 on Jin without a FC? I can never quite seem to pull it off, but it's probably my timing. _____________________________________________________________________________ I'm a little confused too about the proration of Jayoku Houtenjin. Is it's combo proration actually higher? And starting with 5C should add more damage to Jayoku since the proration of 5C is 100% I believe. But you mentioned this "Even after a 5C it doesn't add as much damage solo." Which shouldn't be the case if 5C's proration is 100%. Just to avoid conclusion, my main question is: Is Jayoku Houtenjin's combo proration actually higher mid-combo, so the follow up attacks after it do more? Edit: I think I've figured it out. Using 5C before Jayoku creates a higher damage outcome for the entire combo since Jayoku has 94 proration mid-combo. However, if you plan on using Jayoku alone, it'll do more damage than 5C > 236236B because although 5C's proration is 100%. Jayoku lowers it's own proration mid-combo. I forgot about the third type of proration.... Ugh, this proration stuff has got my head spinning. Well, now I'm off to take my last final of the semester. *Still surprised everyone is up so early.*

Interesting, so starting with 5C really does nothing but add more damage, since its proration is 100%, awesome. Anyways, thanks for clearing that up. And I don't think you can use 6D~A x 3 on all characters after a non-FC Jayoku. So breaking 8K may only be possible on some characters. 7.5K is still nothing to scoff at though. Also, for the other combo you found the damage figure for: 214D~B (CH) > (Adjust) [6D~A x 2] > 623D > (Dash) 3C > 236236B > (Adjust) 214D~C > 5C > 2C > 4D~D > j.214B# *50 Heat* Damage: ~3706 How can that be correct when: 214D~B (FC) > (Adjust) [6D~A x 3] > 623D > 2B > 5C > 2C > 4D~D > j.214B# Damage: ~4090 It baffles my mind that adding a Distortion Drive mid-combo lowers the damage of the entire combo. The proration must really be strange in this game. Or it could be minor factors like how many Ouroboros chains connect, etc. Anyone want to clarify this for me? I plan on testing it out to make sure that figure wasn't wrong. But so far you've been right, and I really trust your judgment.

So it doesn't work mid-screen at all?

Originally, I thought it was corner only. But I believe I've seen a video where someone did it midscreen, don't quote me on that though, haha. And didn't you have a combo that did over 7000 damage Fieryda? I'll look back a few pages and add that one most likely. Unless I'm thinking of something else. Edit: Combo at 4:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj8UlOkDqrA This is a combo over 7000 damage that doesn't use the crossup. There was a 5C in the beginning though, so I'm not sure how much of a difference it would have made, but since they didn't have a FC, they only used 6D~A once before Jakou. Isn't there a combo like this midscreen that still works?

That confuses me. Does dashing lower the proration in a combo? Because I've seen an almost identical combo without the dash in corner (Not the crossup one). And I could have swore it did around 7.4K. I'll check it later today if I get the chance.

I didn't realize that combo was under 7000 damage. I could have swore I've seen it done for around 7.4K or so on youtube, ah well. Anyways, mind submitting your variation of the combo that did more damage? I'd like to add it to the Jayoku Houtenjin punishment combos section or wherever it would apply to.

I'll add the stylish combo you recommended. And can you really combo Jayoku Houtenjin directly into Mizuchi Rekkazan? If so, I'll put that in the stylish combos section as well.

Yeah, sorry man. To be honest, in CS you can no longer combo like that. When you use an Astral Heat, you have to have 100 Heat and all of the conditions before the combo in order to use it part way in. Just a change they made... or it may have been like that in CT, but I don't think so. Anyways, someone about a page back suggested: 236236B > (Adjust) [4D~A x 3] > j.214B# Damage: ~4600 If we've always had this option, why aren't people doing this instead of using 214D~C at the beginning, etc? I'm just always skeptical of new combos that I've never seen before. But at the same time I'm excited to test it myself and see if Hazama's become even more "deadly", haha.

Yeah, in my own experience, D~C doesn't have no some valid uses. The best use for it is crossing someone up when they're nervous or conditioned to block your entire chain movement. However, D~C usually isn't viable in top level competition. And I'm a little confused here, everyone is saying you can do j.2C to 3C and follow up with the j.C x 5 to land, 2C to j.214B#, etc... I thought that was only possible if there weren't more than 2 hits before the 214D~C. And I thought the chain automatically gave them a chance to tech out when you were doing the last set of j.214B#. Or are you guys talking about the combo when you just airdash > j.2C, etc. And, by the way... Thank you so much for getting the damage figures on this combos PhantomX! I really needed those, and I don't believe many people have access to the game. Even without the charged numbers, it's fine... Since I only need general estimates now. I'll put them up later tonight. Thanks again man!

Thanks for the combo, but I think there's another combo very similar to yours which is already in the combo list. 236236B (FC) > (Adjust) [6D~A x 3] > 623D > (Dash) 3C > 236236B > (Adjust) 214D~C > 5C > 2C > 6D~D > j.214B# I believe following the second Jayoku Houtenjin (Distortion Drive Kick) with 214D~C, etc does more damage than your combo. Your combo's still very good, I'm just looking for the most practical ones.

Well, you can only use [6D~A x 2] after the Neutral Throw on a few characters. For most, it's one 6D~A followed by Jakou after delaying the input a bit. The best advice I have for timing 3C after Jakou is waiting for the person to hit the ground. Don't rush yourself, and certainly don't mash while they're coming down. If you wait until Jakou's animation is over and time 3C correctly, it shouldn't be too difficult to get Jayoku Houtenjin afterwards.

Jakou into Mizuchi Rekkazan and 3C > 236236B are pretty easy for me. And I really want to get better at going into his BnB's from any situation. Mastering the versatility, but you need experience in a real match to do that, not just at practicing his combos. And unfortunately, I don't really have access to any players who can face me. And I'll add the (Back Jump) j.6D~D combo, and state that it isn't exclusive to Tager. Does it work on every single character with strict enough timing then? Or does it only work on a few select members of the cast?

Exactly, so we'll keep it Tager exclusive for now. I've been practicing a lot of these combos now that I'm mostly finished with this thread, and I don't think any of them are especially difficult to complete. That could be because I'm used to Hazama though. The hardest things are probably dashing into 5C, 2C when they're too far away, and the dash crossup when your opponent's in the corner. Does anyone have any advice or tips they can give to me on this?